Members JerryP Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by DerekB None of the Madison amps I had for myself(3 of them) hummed at all and the only issue I had was the slight popping soung when switching from clean to hi gain and that was on the last one I had. The only customer of mine I recall about having a problem with the hum was Hank(Onehourburn) Killswitch 19 evidently had a tube issue going on and his problems went away from what he told me last. So maybe it's just an inconsistent build issue. Regardless I'll never do business with that company again and it's too bad cause IMO the tone of the amp when working properly sound's better than alot of cheaper and more expensive Metal amps out there.Derek It's not an inconsistent build issue. The circuit board is etched wrong. Every amp built using that board is built wrong. Since boards are etched in large batches, and Madison didn't seem to know the cause of the hum, I suspect there's a {censored} load of them that were built wrong. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DerekB Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by JerryP It's not an inconsistent build issue. The circuit board is etched wrong. Every amp built using that board is built wrong. Since boards are etched in large batches, and Madison didn't seem to know the cause of the hum, I suspect there's a {censored} load of them that were built wrong. Jerry Wel the 3 I had for demo's and personal use had no hum at all and were even quieter than other amps I sell. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jthompso Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by DerekB None of the Madison amps I had for myself(3 of them) hummed at all and the only issue I had was the slight popping soung when switching from clean to hi gain and that was on the last one I had. The only customer of mine I recall about having a problem with the hum was Hank(Onehourburn) Killswitch 19 evidently had a tube issue going on and his problems went away from what he told me last. So maybe it's just an inconsistent build issue. Regardless I'll never do business with that company again and it's too bad cause IMO the tone of the amp when working properly sound's better than alot of cheaper and more expensive Metal amps out there.Derek Based on your comments I dont understand why you would never do business with them again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DerekB Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by jthompso Based on your comments I dont understand why you would never do business with them again? Worst dealer support ever. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordOVchaoS Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by DerekB Wel the 3 I had for demo's and personal use had no hum at all and were even quieter than other amps I sell.Derek I'm with Derek here. Mine didn't hum at all and niether did the 2 others that I came across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave_Mc_2 Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by K.platyops I am begging someone from the Madison company to address some of the concerns and issues that followed from the initial statement that started this thread!? For example, after looking at the control layouts of the various 'Chinese-made' amps like the Legion Sound, the B-52, and the Ashton, I was struck by how similar they were to the Divinity. Not just the identical controls and buttons, but the whole design layouts are clearly made by the same manufacturer, with only minor cosmetic changes added to suit each different company. The chances that someone could independently create such a similar layout is not great. These amps just mirror each other far too closely in appearance for it to be merely an example of convergent evolution. Or, I could be wrong? No doubt, but please explain and address this issue, Madison. There is so much I could say...but it would take a small essay to weigh in on all the pertinent issues discussed. At this point, I don't think that you can fault potential customers and past customers for being noticeably skeptical of the company's product as well as the company's intentions. Sorry to all the fans, but this stuff is serious red flag city! Please make an official company statement. Don't insult the critics in the statement, just BE PROFESSIONAL; if not as an amp maker, then as someone who is in the customer service industry. The statement that started this thread reminded me of the style of PRMike more than anything. This is odd...We know that the company has been aware of these threads contents from the start. One of their agents (the same PRMike/xxMadimaxx) even came on and got into flame contests with potential customers, just fanning the fire. I read that company 357's meager response to their problem (I won't elaborate on that here) and that was soooo much better than the company statement that started this thread! Do something, Madison. This is a big test of your company, regardless of whether this blows over or not. You have had much time to sit in meetings and discuss the issues in house by now. You've obviously been monitoring the content here within, and even made the cursory statement that started this thread. But that was only a beginning, an introduction to address this problem. My best advice is to open the books and try to give an explanation for every major concern expressed in the various threads here that dealt with your product. Hey, explain things about your product that we haven't even thought about yet. And for the things you don't want to divulge, such as propietary designs and the like, explain in a sensible, understandable way why you can't divulge certain things. It would go a LONG WAY for all of us if you addressed each of the major points made by JerryP in an ITEMIZED, methodical fashion. It has come to that point now. And please don't attack the messenger (JerryP) without focusing on the message and what has been alleged. Explain it so that techs and all us third graders can understand. Patience is key. You need to do this, I think. I know that you believe in your product. You have to try to back it up. There are hundreds more potential amp buyers who are reading this thread without joining in. For many of them, any one of the major issues (for all the issues, like the amp design's origin, its place of construction, the quality of its construction, etc. see the posts above) discussed are all that is needed to send them elsewhere to buy an amp. {censored}, I'll confess that I am tempted to pick up a used Divinity cheap right now, while all this is going on. What does that mean? It means that I've heard enough to make me think that you may have a good-sounding product with potential for a place in my aresenal. So, there is hope. But, your response will determine whether I'm willing to spend $1000 for a new one, or only $400 tops for a used one off of E-bay. If you at Madison feel like it is not worth dignifying many of the comments and criticisms expressed here within, I understand. However, I as a customer need you to deal with this. I think everybody, even your supporters, would like you to set the record straight and end the controversy. excellent post. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryP Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 What you guys may or may not have heard is your own perception of the amp. Your room, guitar, pickups, house power, etc. all contribute to what you heard. That doesn't change the fact it's built wrong. Plenty of others have complained about the hum. The hum and the switching pop were the two things I read about before I ever touched the amp. Your's may have been fine for you. Some guys think the 5150 has an acceptable level of noise, others wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. Different strokes for different folks. The power supply is built (copied) wrong. This will cause excessive AC ripple in the B+ supplied to the preamp section. It can cause hum, ghost notes, and make the guitar sound out of tune. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DerekB Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by JerryP The power supply is built (copied) wrong. This will cause excessive AC ripple in the B+ supplied to the preamp section. It can cause hum, ghost notes, and make the guitar sound out of tune.Jerry So then some amps will work fine with no hum while others built the same way won't? None of those 3 symptoms were present in the ones I had. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth7684 Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by LordOVchaoS I'm with Derek here. Mine didn't hum at all and niether did the 2 others that I came across. Mine did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by Megadeth7684 --- Hey, finally your avatar features someone that is not just a cheap, infection/infestation skank whore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hairydangler Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 No that ones an expensive whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth7684 Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by Auggie Doggie Hey, finally your avatar features someone that is not just a cheap, infection/infestation skank whore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Romanian Reaper Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 My whole Madison experience had nothing to do with tone. That truly was one of the best sounding amps I'v ever had and I'v owned Marshall, ENGL, Peavey, Fender, etc. For me, the final straw was DerekB and Jerry's experiences with the company. When DerekB sent my amp, Madison screwed up the order and Derek couldn't get a hold of them, etc. Then, it just spiraled out of control and nobody could get a hold of the company, were getting the wrong shipments, etc. When Jerry opened up the amp and saw the "hidden features", it just added to the problem. I was just looking for honesty from a company and I felt like the lack of support and "parlor tricks" were messed up. The bottom line is that I loved the amp but didn't feel like I could trust it over the long term. Its actually a shame because the amp sounded awesome. I decided to go with another of DerekB's supporters, Scott Splawn, and my amp is currently being built and due to arrive in June. I know that I'm getting the truth on building techniques and basically have a lifetime warranty on the amp. You can't beat that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by hairydangler No that ones an expensive whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryP Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by DerekB So then some amps will work fine with no hum while others built the same way won't? None of those 3 symptoms were present in the ones I had.Derek Some amps will be perceived as fine, they'll all have the {censored}ed up power supply unless somewhere along the line they caught the problem and started using a different circuit board. My guess based on what they've posted here and from what owners have been told is that they still use that circuit board.I'll be happy to give you the schematic and links to sites about power supply design if you still don't want to believe me.Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth7684 Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by JerryP Some amps will be perceived as fine, they'll all have the {censored}ed up power supply unless somewhere along the line they caught the problem and started using a different circuit board. My guess based on what they've posted here and from what owners have been told is that they still use that circuit board. I'll be happy to give you the schematic and links to sites about power supply design if you still don't want to believe me. Jerry Well, PRMike is back here posting again, I'm 110% sure he will come in here and fully explain everything that went on with all this Madison stuff. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DerekB Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by JerryP Some amps will be perceived as fine, they'll all have the {censored}ed up power supply unless somewhere along the line they caught the problem and started using a different circuit board. My guess based on what they've posted here and from what owners have been told is that they still use that circuit board.I'll be happy to give you the schematic and links to sites about power supply design if you still don't want to believe me.Jerry C'mon It's not a question of not wanting to believe you I'm just asking some questions. If those symptoms happen in one amp then why would some others not experience it if they were built the same way? Maybe you just don't believe me the ones I had made no hum. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rocky101 Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 I still like the tone of my Madison, but I am kinda skidish to start gigging with it because of the issues JerryP found. I trust Jerry cause he modded my Laney Pro tube into a freaking beast! Jerry actually found what was wrong with the Laney when another local tech couldn't, which was someone put 2 resistors in place of one casue they didn't have the right value. This caused the amp to go up and down in volume. Jerry found it right away. I am seriously thinking of trading off my Madison for a Mesa Boogie or other high end poweramp to go with my ADA Mp-1 Mod4 MKII modded preamp, which by the way sounds incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by DerekB C'mon It's not a question of not wanting to believe you I'm just asking some questions. If those symptoms happen in one amp then why would some others not experience it if they were built the same way? Maybe you just don't believe me the ones I had made no hum.Derek It's possible that this design issue was corrected in the amps you had. However, consider the lengths to which they had to go to discover the problem (getting Jerry to help) and the timing of that (after you'd received your amps). This would imply either: (1) the problem still existed on the amps you had, and Jerry's right about your perception of it, or (2) Madison knew what the problem was, and had already corrected it on later amps, but went through a facade saying they didn't know what the problem was (and got Jerry to try to help). I'd also like to mention that with a very good set of preamp tubes, it's possible that the hum issue won't be nearly as noticeable. The liklihood of having such a good set of preamp tubes is a roll of the dice though. And then there's still the issue of ghost notes to consider...that is, if a person were to play the amp loud enough to notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cloudnine Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 James, shut the {censored} up and start your own amp company if you want to bitch. That post made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucius Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Lies lies all lies! Cheers Lucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Megadeth7684 Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 Originally posted by Lucius Lies lies all lies! Cheers Lucius Haha! Lucius, I would like to someday meet you in person, you seem like a funny guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members exposeenmity Posted May 28, 2006 Members Share Posted May 28, 2006 You know, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if whomever is responsible for the first post, did it just to get a rise out of the pople on the HCAF; which seems like not to hard a task to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Romanian Reaper Posted May 29, 2006 Members Share Posted May 29, 2006 Originally posted by Rocky101 I still like the tone of my Madison, but I am kinda skidish to start gigging with it because of the issues JerryP found. I trust Jerry cause he modded my Laney Pro tube into a freaking beast! Jerry actually found what was wrong with the Laney when another local tech couldn't, which was someone put 2 resistors in place of one casue they didn't have the right value. This caused the amp to go up and down in volume. Jerry found it right away. I am seriously thinking of trading off my Madison for a Mesa Boogie or other high end poweramp to go with my ADA Mp-1 Mod4 MKII modded preamp, which by the way sounds incredible. That was part of my thing too. I don't gig now but I thought if I ever do start gigging again, I don't know if I trust that amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JamesPeters Posted August 15, 2006 Members Share Posted August 15, 2006 Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps Funny thing, a friend in our industry told me a story about the same time I recieved this amplifier. I've been approached by them too. I wonder how the hell they even found me, since I'm so under-the-radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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