Boston Guitar Sound? Tom Scholz?

[rvschulz]

Uhm, www.rockmancentral.com did a yahoo search, "Tom Sholtz gear". Billly Gibbons famously used Rockmans to record all the ZZ hit's. (Afterburner, etc...)

nothing personal ... but the Rev'rend is FAMOUS for bul{censored}ting people about his gear. perhaps even INFAMOUS. just my .02 ...

[clay_finley]

Here's the secret, straight from RockmanCentral:

Take this add compression and run it into a cranked Marshall.

[mannydingo]

Take this add compression and run it into a cranked Marshall.

 

 

Why do I have this FUNNY LITTLE FEELING that that eq with that setting and a cranked Marshall alone just ain't gonna do the trick. Come on man, that's NOT going to get you there. There's way more to it. If it were that easy, he would never have made all that Rockman gear. His first reason for making it was not for a business. It was for ease-of-use. He then decided to make a company and cash in on the idea.

[nedsteve]

Rockman sound samples can be heard here: http://www.rockman.fr/Samples/Samples.htm
Much more than just Boston sounds.

[glenecho]

Why do I have this FUNNY LITTLE FEELING that that eq with that setting and a cranked Marshall alone just ain't gonna do the trick. Come on man, that's NOT going to get you there. There's way more to it. If it were that easy, he would never have made all that Rockman gear. His first reason for making it was not for a business. It was for ease-of-use. He then decided to make a company and cash in on the idea.

 

 

It won't get you there...I have no doubt.

 

It also helps to do a lot of post processing...most namely killing a lot of lows and highs in the post EQ. He also used a {censored}-ton of reverb.

[jaytee123]

I know Steve Lukather was using Rockmans on sessions in the 80's.

[dirkpitt]

Marshalls, power soak, MXR stuff, Echoplex

[grickie]

I just sold a Rockman Sustainor model 200. It was the one piece of gear that made the sound - not perfect but the best single piece of gear to do it.

I also have one of the suitcase amps they made that does a great deal to get there too....I think it's the total combination plus the fact that there is a lot of over dubbing to get that sound.

Also he did a full stereo cabinet ( tweeter, woofer, midrange) and of course the EQ.

[TIP]

I never knew that Mark Knopfler used it on Money for Nothing ! Hmm, 500Hz...

That is because he didn't.

The Money for Nothing sound is a Les Paul Jr. into a Laney amp...the "cocked wah" sound you hear is the result from the phase cancellation between 3 microphones. It was a studio accident that worked out and the kept it. He didn't use a wah or a Rockman for that tone.

[Razsan]

Rockman sound samples can be heard here: http://www.rockman.fr/Samples/Samples.htm Much more than just Boston sounds.

So are you telling me that tone is in the fingers???...because most of that sounded horrible...

[mannydingo]

 

He also used a {censored}-ton of reverb.

 

 

I agree 100% but only from the third album and on. The first two albums did NOT suffer from too much reverb.

[jaytee123]

The whole "tone is in the fingers" thing again, huh? (can of worms)

 

 

Said it before, Ill say it again.

 

Technique is in the fingers

Good technique produces good tone

Getting the best tone out of the instrument itself relies on the fretboard fingers and picking hand. An amp will embellish the basic tone.

 

So yeah "tone is in the fingers (and hands)" pretty much. Its just a bad way of saying it.

 

As far as getting the best tone out of an instrument before being amplified, it is in the technique. It just so happens that this technique is related to the fingers and hands. If we played with our caulks, we would say that tone is in the caulk.

[jaytee123]

So are you telling me that tone is in the fingers???...because most of that sounded horrible...

 

 

I can't believe the same guy that recorded the "Shine On... "sample recorded the "Highway to Hell" sample. Shine sounded good. The tone and playing on Highway was amateurish.

[squealie]

One of his best was using a short speaker cable for one cab and a really long one for another to get a nice slight delay doubling effect

 

 

LOL!

 

I like to run a really long extension-cord for my power, that way, if I forget to pay the Electric Bill, I can just use last month's juice.

[chaosStrings]

 

I've owned pretty much all the rockman stuff. There's a certain piece EVH uses, I've posted it but nobody ever wants to listen......

 

 

Of course nobody wants to listen! It's a noise gate, it's supposed to be silent!

[mannydingo]

There's a certain piece EVH uses, I've posted it but nobody ever wants to listen...... The Rockman Soloist does Boston tone

 

 

I want to listen. Put a link. And, I owned the Soloist. That may be the Boston tone but only that of Third Stage on up. It does NOT sound like classic Boston.

[chaosStrings]

I can't believe the same guy that recorded the "Shine On... "sample recorded the "Highway to Hell" sample. Shine sounded good. The tone and playing on Highway was amateurish.

 

The Sustainor is very versatile: the post-eq is very similar to the one uesd in Pink Floyd records, and in NAILS the Brothers in Arms one (even if there is too much gain overall).

 

Boost 1.6kHz + and you'll get some smooth lead tone, boost the 3.2kHz + and you'll obtain that wonderful crunch

[mannydingo]

Said it before, Ill say it again. Technique is in the fingers Good technique produces good tone Getting the best tone out of the instrument itself relies on the fretboard fingers and picking hand. An amp will embellish the basic tone. So yeah "tone is in the fingers (and hands)" pretty much. Its just a bad way of saying it.

 

 

I also said it before and I will say it again. Finger technique has NOTHING to do with tone. You're mistaking bad playing that makes things sound bad with bad tone. You can get a guy with the right equipment and using it correctly(not talking fingering)and the sound will be good even if his playing sucks. You will have to stop listening to him but only because of his bad playing.

 

In other words:

Bad playing with good tone makes listening annoying and

Bad tone with good playing also make listening annoying.

 

The playing does not affect the tone.

 

Another way to prove this is simple: Get two guitarists, one is an excellent player and the other one has poor technique. However, only now have them both do an open-A power chord and that's it! Technique will play NO role here because it's just one strike of one simple-to-do chord. Keep in mind the worse of the two players isn't a complete beginner either. Equipment and set-up ONLY will make the difference in tone. Once again, if the lousy guitarist goes on to play a full song, his playing will ruin everything but not because of tone.

 

Why do I feel this post is going to do NOTHING to make you think differently?

[Razsan]

I also said it before and I will say it again. Finger technique has NOTHING to do with tone. You're mistaking bad playing that makes things sound bad with bad tone. You can get a guy with the right equipment and using it correctly(not talking fingering)and the sound will be good even if his playing sucks. You will have to stop listening to him but only because of his bad playing.................... Why do I feel this post is going to do NOTHING to make you think differently?

While I agree with your post....here's a reality for you...
Bad player picks up a crap tele copy and plays it in a 15 watt SS Crate with a 10" speaker....
Great player picks up same equipment, realizes limitations of gear, adjusts amp knobs accordingly, pulls back the guitar volume knob to 3 and plays on neck pickup...
I've seen that happen at one of the local music stores for a gear lesson. The teacher was/is a monster player (technique wise).

[mannydingo]

 

Equipment and set-up ONLY will make the difference in tone.

 

 

See, the teacher/great player/monster guitarist "set up" the equipment correctly according to what he was using at the moment. His being a great player technique-wise did nothing for his tone. I'm sure the combination of the good tone he was able to muster from the poor equipment along WITH his technique made for pleasant listening. Remember, if the equipment is just to weak, he's only going to get BETTER tone than the other guitarist. It might just reach listenable levels but not necessarily good sound. It also depends on personal taste but, again, the actual fingering won't affect tone.

[MightyThor]

Terrible? You got that right. As I stated earlier, the Rockman modules are essentially junk. They don't give you the classic Boston sound. Why do you think the quality of Boston's third album(called Third Stage) was not as good as the first two albums(called Boston and Don't Look Back)???. It's because on by the third album, he was using all that Rockman stuff.

 

 

The problem with Third stage was too much chorus and placing too much in a stereo field.

 

The Rockman module are not junk and they can get pretty damn close to the first records tone. There's some guy on youtube that does a pretty nice cover of Foreplay/Long Time.

[extollo]

If we played with our caulks, we would say that tone is in the caulk.

 

 

the tone is clearly in the caulk then.

[diddlybo]

It also depends on personal taste but, again, the actual fingering won't affect tone.

 

 

IMO, fingering and technique definitely affect the tone. Give two good players the same gear with the exact same settings and they will most likely sound different. I see it all the time.

[savoldi]

Why do I have this FUNNY LITTLE FEELING that that eq with that setting and a cranked Marshall alone just ain't gonna do the trick. Come on man, that's NOT going to get you there. There's way more to it. If it were that easy, he would never have made all that Rockman gear. His first reason for making it was not for a business. It was for ease-of-use. He then decided to make a company and cash in on the idea.

 

 

Ever try it? It indeed does do a pretty good job of getting you most of the way there for little expense, especially if you're playing Madison Square Garden bedroom. That EQ setting, an SG, and a Classic 30 gets me close enough in my venue. It gives you a recognizable Boston vibe. Probably wouldn't satisfy the truly anal, but you definitely get in the ballpark.

[Razsan]

That's a reality check that I didn't need. My proof? Here's a sentence from the very post of mine that you read: See, the teacher/great player/monster guitarist "set up" the equipment correctly according to what he was using at the moment. His being a great player technique-wise did nothing for his tone. I'm sure the combination of the good tone he was able to muster from the poor equipment along WITH his technique made for pleasant listening. Remember, if the equipment is just to weak, he's only going to get BETTER tone than the other guitarist. It might just reach listenable levels but not necessarily good sound. It also depends on personal taste but, again, the actual fingering won't affect tone.

 

 

Again, I agree with you for the most part but I do believe that vibrato, finger pressure and pick attack are part of "tone". Santana once said that you could take his exact setup and sound nothing like him. I've experienced this myself when I let a youngster play my setup.