Boston Guitar Sound? Tom Scholz?

[MightyThor]

Quote: Originally Posted by fumpy But I hack through an XP-100 combo. Best amp ever. Actually, I would disagree myself. It's not even my favorite amp I own. Not sure what I was thinking. But in certain instances, for that nasally Boston-type tone, it does work well.

The Rockman gear does sound a bit nasally by itself but sits in a mix very nicely.

[petejt]

The Rockman gear does sound a bit nasally by itself but sits in a mix very nicely.

 

 

troof

[bostonrocks]

this is a bit old but I'm gonna bump it.

 

the rockman (especially the sustainors and Distortion generators) are NOT meant to be stand alone units. They CAN be and will sound very nice in a mix. all alone they don't sound to great but in a mix they sit very well because of the 500 and 800 Hz boost.

 

 

They sound great and can get a more than passable first record sound if you EQ them right. All you really need for the "boston" sound is 2 Rockman EQ's a Chorus and a sustainer. which comes to about 600 bucks USD if you play your cards right.

 

to all the people saying that Scholz's tone isn't any good live: How many of you have been to a Boston concert in the last 10 years? I have. He had one of the best tones I have EVER heard live and a great mix to.

 

As for the "original" Boston sound in consisted of:

A CRANKED marshal Superlead with a Scholz power soak (attenuater)

A thing he invented called a doubler (nothing more than a stereo Chorus)

A Les Paul with a DiMarzio SD in the bridge

an Echoplex jury rigged with a expression pedal for the "space sounds"

a MXR 6 Band with a 800Hz peak

a Vox wah

 

and a couple of other things.

 

http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value= the first clip is the "Long Time" intro solo. with a rockman distortion generator and some post EQing and 300ms of echo.

 

 

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/Bostonrocks/music/all/play626550 this is Peace of mind with a touch for reverb and about 200ms of delay and post eqing

 

 

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/Bostonrocks/music/all/play629931 and to show its versitality some Van halen, although it's not perfect this is more than passable for a live gig if you want to do a cover or two

[jimijam]

this is a bit old but I'm gonna bump it. . . . As for the "original" Boston sound in consisted of: A CRANKED marshal Superlead with a Scholz power soak (attenuater) A thing he invented called a doubler (nothing more than a stereo Chorus) A Les Paul with a DiMarzio SD in the bridge an Echoplex jury rigged with a expression pedal for the "space sounds" a MXR 6 Band with a 800Hz peak a Vox wah

:thu:
Kick ASS rig

[bostonrocks]

Sure is/was!

[mannydingo]

 

........................... A Les Paul with a DiMarzio SD in the bridge ................................................ etc.

 

 

Ok, the other stuff sounds right but, the Dimarzio Super Distortion pickups were added to his guitar AFTER the recording of the first album. He has explained that he recorded the guitars with his Les Paul's original P90's. However, when playing live, at that time, there was no way to tame the noise they made, and got amplified, because of the lighting systems after they started touring big time. I'm not saying you can't get the same sound in this day in age with either type of pickup. It just requires additional tweaking. Thanks for posting the links, anyway. They are very interesting to hear. Now that netmusicians.org beginning to Long Time, that does sound exactly like it and I had heard it on that site before. A coincidence it I had just heard it last night before you even posted this.

 

About that Peace Of Mind link you posted: Sorry but no cigar. That doesn't sound like Boston's first album. That sounds like Rockman equipment. It has more of that Third Stage album sound to it, though still different because so much else is used of his equipment in the studio and live.

[WoodyTone com]

Rockmans sound "like" Boston and Def Leppard's Hysteria album -- because that's what the Lep used (can't believe they gave up their Marshalls).

 

Re: Gibbons, the producer said no Rockman as quoted above, but Billy has said publicly (I have the interview) that it was a Rockman custom-built by Tom without the ominpresent chorus.

 

On Boston albums, Scholz used a ton of different sounds even within the same song, and that "anality" is a big reason the albums took forever to make and only a few were produced.

 

I always wanted to try the Power Soak.

[LesPaulCustom79]

I still have my old Tom Shultz Power Soak which Boston used live and they make any Marshall JMP SL100, JMP MkII 2203 or JCM800 2203 sound great by getting more power tube saturation gain BUT, they sure as hell fry your tubes really quick. Use one but make sure you have the $$$$ to blow on new power tubes every few months.

[mannydingo]

Rockmans sound "like" Boston

 

 

I agree. They sound "like" Boston. And that "like" is only "like" their Third Stage album and those afterward. Now the first Rockman headphone amps and also the XPR rack and amps both did the second Boston album well also. That's good because I love the second album. The first album, however, is not well reproduced by those either. Rockman rack gear is just Boston-ish and has only worked on that Long Time song intro. That's the best I've heard and that ain't enough for me. I don't even want to use other equipment. I think multi-effect modelers should have nailed that sound a long time ago.

[bostonrocks]

 

I agree. They sound "like" Boston. And that "like" is only "like" their Third Stage album and those afterward. Now the first Rockman headphone amps and also the XPR rack and amps both did the second Boston album well also. That's good because I love the second album. The first album, however, is not well reproduced by those either. Rockman rack gear is just Boston-ish and has only worked on that Long Time song intro. That's the best I've heard and that ain't enough for me. I don't even want to use other equipment. I think multi-effect modelers should have nailed that sound a long time ago.

 

 

 

The Second album used no rockman equipment whatsoever. Marshalls and les pauls for that album.

 

the First album is one of the best produced best sounding albums of its time.

 

the MFX modelers can't reproduce it. there is such a complex arrangement of circiuts in it the rockman. Starting with the the noise gate and compressor which really are the heart of the rockman sound. Second the rockman is totally analog. it in reality was the first amp modeler to ever be released (and imo owns the POD's and GT series today for certain things) and can really be very very close to a plexi if you want it to be.

 

and on the discussion about who used rockman stuff...

 

Alex Lifeson

Don Henley

Neal Schon

Def Leppard (They used modified XPRs with the "metal ace" circiut)

Megadeth

 

EDIT: I don't think anyone has seen Boston live? Live the reproduce the tone amazingly

 

Double edit: Billy Gibbons has said in interviews that he used a rockman X100 modified my Scholz without the chorus and more of a "Metal Ace" circuit.

[mannydingo]

 

this is true. He used P90 for the first album as far as I can tell. but just before the first tour he switched so Don't look back used the SD and the tone on DLB is pretty much the same. The long time clip is me. that is a rockman distortion generator with some post EQing and 300ms of delay. and it nails is. The peace of mind one is close but not quite it still has the rockman thing with it. I think if I had P90s it would help some.

 

 

So you're the guy that did that clip! Nails it is correct but, you see, that part is not the same on the rest of the album. When I said I don't want to use any other equipment, I left the impression that I don't want to use anything other than Rockman equipment. Boston is my all-time favorite band yet I don't use or want to use Rockman gear. For example, I use a Digitech RP1000 and will probably be using a Digitech GSP1101 with their Control 2 pedal. They have great, smooth hard distortion that works for Boston stuff but not with the first and second album sound. I'm willing to give in because I just want one unit meaning one unit on the floor and that's it!

 

I want a multi-effects unit that will give me the sound the song Don't Look Back has on the single notes and the very first single notes you hear on the song Peace Of Mind. Ofcourse, the chords I want too but you get the idea. Those opening electric guitar notes on Peace Of Mind no one seems to emulate well. I'm still in awe that the Sustainor did the lead notes of Long Time so well. It's the only exception I've seen. Not even live do I like Scholz' sound for the first album songs, except for Long Time and some bits here and there for other songs. It's so thin and noisy sounding.

 

Hey wait, that's right! You use the name Bostonrocks on that clilp site also. You used to have that same clip there long ago and put it on again recently, right?

[bostonrocks]

Live his tone is much smoother and a bit more bassy. I know what you are saying though some of the digitech stuff is awesome. It's just imo not as good. The peace of mind opening notes are an interesting thing. I think part of it if you listen closely there is no vibrato! that and he has a bit more 2k in the mix.

 

I didn't do the original clip that was a different guy. He took his down as I put mine up

 

EDIT: The reason the long time solos are not the same on the rest of the album is because Tom is not playing that solo! Barry is, and Barry is a much different player than Tom.

[46&2]

and on the discussion about who used rockman stuff... Alex Lifeson

 

 

on wat?

[bostonrocks]

Pretty Much any of the 80s Rush albums.

 

Signals, I'm not sure about moving pictures, power window, and grace under pressure

[bostonrocks]

Also all the people who don't like the rockman sound and think it sounds bad. I understand it's an opinion and the sound isn't for everyone BUT, most of the time people ran their rockman units through there normal guitar amps. This is a very bad thing to do, as it will sound horrid. The rockman was the original "sans amp" (if you took French you should know that sans means without or no, I didn't take French so don'e quote me I"m just giving a rough translation) and is meant to be ran through a full range speaker system or PA not through an amp! It was never meant to sound all that good through a guitar amp, it was meant to sound great through your full range PA or speaker cab. So all you haters if you have on or have a chance yo try one out through something like that it might change your mind.

[Flogger59]

Man, did I sell a boatload of Rockmans in the early 80's. Rockman, the sound of SQUINK!!!!

[gainfreak]

Also all the people who don't like the rockman sound and think it sounds bad. I understand it's an opinion and the sound isn't for everyone BUT, most of the time people ran their rockman units through there normal guitar amps. This is a very bad thing to do, as it will sound horrid. The rockman was the original "sans amp" (if you took French you should know that sans means without or no, I didn't take French so don'e quote me I"m just giving a rough translation) and is meant to be ran through a full range speaker system or PA not through an amp! It was never meant to sound all that good through a guitar amp, it was meant to sound great through your full range PA or speaker cab. So all you haters if you have on or have a chance yo try one out through something like that it might change your mind.

 

 

First off,I say this with no malace but take it from a guy who uses that type of tone freequently, that not everyone will dig it.. I can tell you from experiance, as a Guy who LOVES the old Boston sound that not everyone is going to like the 800hz midrange bump no matter what lol. You can scream until you are blue in the face but I know of a lot of guitar players who absolutely HATE and I mean HATE that sound, so for you to go on about people changing there mind, its not going to happen to everyone!! In some cases YES but that particular freequency is either special to someone or pure crap to someone

I guess you can say that about any tone.

 

on another note, For people who want the original Boston tone by using an amp and not the Rockman stuff, you can do what I said WAY back when this thread first started and get a furman PQ3 parametric EQ. If you boost 800hz at a narrow bandwidth you will be surprised. The furman is like having the EQ, boost and wah all in one and you can really nail the sound.

 

all the best!!

 

~R~

[bostonrocks]

Like I said, it's not for everyone.

 

EDTI: ^ man don't bite my head off. I said in the first sentence of that that it's not for everyone and not everyone is going to like that sound. I know lots of people who hate it also. I"m just saying once you hear it through a full range system or PA you might change your mind, as it sounds way better.

[gregs1020]

I just knew I'd find you in here...

[bostonrocks]

 

 

Hey Greg.

[gainfreak]

Like I said, it's not for everyone. EDTI: ^ man don't bite my head off. I said in the first sentence of that that it's not for everyone and not everyone is going to like that sound. I know lots of people who hate it also. I"m just saying once you hear it through a full range system or PA you might change your mind, as it sounds way better.

 

 

Not biting your head of at all! That's why i said I mean this with no malice.

[bostonrocks]

Yeah, sorry!

[gainfreak]

Yeah, sorry!

No worries, I re-read what I wrote and totally see how that could come off wrong

[bostonrocks]

cool!

 

one thing guys. if you want a first album sound here is one of the best ways to get it.

 

Get a sans amp PSA1 use the plexi model and get a pre and post 31b eq. you can get very very close.

 

 

and one more thing about the rockman thing. Scholz himself has said that he has used marshalls on some of the newer recordings with the rockman stuff he said that it's so close he can't tell the difference between the marshalls and the rockman

[mannydingo]

on another note, For people who want the original Boston tone by using an amp and not the Rockman stuff, you can

 

 

That's why it's even more difficult a guy like me, not only do I not want to use Rockman stuff but I don't use guitar amps cabinets. I am an FRFR guy which is good for the Rockman stuff but, what I want is to have one, and only one, multi-effects unit do the Rockman sound and all the other sounds I want too. Even if I liked the Rockman stuff, I would hate to have one round of equipment for all other sounds and then also another rig with Rockman stuff just to get the early Boston sound. That's why I will be forced to just get as close as I can with the Digitech stuff. Well, if another brand does it better, I will go with them. For now, Digitech is best.