When do you predict tubes will be obsolete??

[petejt]

I don't think it will ever take over.

[Caulk Rocket]

Fractional watt tube amps will {censored} modelling in the ass.

[chainsaw fats]

tubes won't become obsolete until SS sounds as good also, the military will keep using them until they find something else that is as resistant to EMPs and as cost efficient as tubes

 

 

The US military doesn't use tubes as much as you seem to be implying. When I first reported to my ship in 1982, I worked on AN/SRC-20/21s. These were an almost entirely tube UHF transceiver (2 transisters). They were replaced by the AN/WSC-3 v.7 which had no tubes. Then I worked on the AN/URT-23B and C which replaced the old T2s (fully tubed) as HF transmitters. These had a total of 6 tubes (2 driver tubes and 2 power tubes in the power amp, 2 power tubes in the main unit); all the rest was solid state.

 

As for the cost effectiveness of tubes, you have to be kidding. We had 16 SRC-20/21s and we went through tons of tubes. Re-tubing and tweeking one of those bastards was very time consuming. Tubes wear out far faster than solid state components, so I was performing maintenance on at least one transceiver a week.

 

There's still a place for special purpose tubes, but most tubes have been banished from the US military.

[newholland]

not quite sure why anyone would

 

a) think tubes would become obsolete

 

b) think that digital is anything but a different means to an end.

 

 

tubes are a different technology. they act differently than a digital signal, thus having a different sonic signature. they amplify even order harmonics by virtue of the way they cascade electrons through a grid. big deal. a hammer drives nails by using force to drive them into wood. a nail gun uses air. a rock does the same thing. they CAN all get the job done.

 

then there's the taste quotient. some like tube sound. others don't. some like to drive nails with rocks. why.. i don't know. tube guys don't mind changing tubes and the culture associated. different tubes, different tones, mismatching impedances. solid state guys like their stuff too. digital.. same deal.

 

ultimately, who cares? why bother talking about the obsolescence of useful tools when it comes to a matter of taste and pursuit? i personally don't like any digital i've ever played- it grates my ears, and sounds fake and grainy when i play. but it's better than it was. its sure better sounding than a sunn beta lead.. but people've made character sounds out of sunn beta leads.

 

when will ibanez 7 string guitars become obsolete? or when will metal become obsolete? when will well made guitars or when will eric clapton, jimi hendrix, dimebag darrell become obsolete?

[Casey4s]

--. . - / .-- .. - .... / - .... . / - .. -- . ... --..-- / -- .- -. !!! :poke:

 

 

You said "get with the times, man"

 

But morse code will always have a place in communications, especially in the military.

[duodecim]

when will ibanez 7 string guitars become obsolete? or when will metal become obsolete? when will well made guitars or when will eric clapton, jimi hendrix, dimebag darrell become obsolete?

Haven't some of these already become obsolete?

[tws!]

So my roommate came upstairs tonight, and saw that I was doing some {censored}ing around w/ my Valve Junior. He was AMAZED that I had vacuum tubes in my possession, and simply SHOCKED that they even looked NEW.

Haha, when my friend bought a Dual Rec, his dad was pissed that he spent "all that money you could be giving me" and "that damn hunk of {censored} has VACUUM TUBES in it!!! They had those when I was a kid!!!!"



I love it when people talk about things they have no clue about.

[MalcolmTex]

as soon as transistors are invented.

[Marshallmel]

Tubes will become obsolete at about the same time this thread will.

Give it a {censored}ing break already!:blah::blah:

[thinkpad20]

random bump

 

[jaytee123]

Therein lies the problem. How many high priced solid state amps have you encountered?

 

Pritchard is pretty high priced.

[petejt]

No {censored}. But it's never going to happen.

[newholland]

thinkpad's trolling. ;p

 

i quote duodecim:

 

Good digital shouldn't have a sonic signature, but a faithful reproduction of reality and its natural processes to such a high order of complexity or such fine granularity it exceeds man's ability to make the distinction. "Digital" isn't a schematic, but a way to realise natural laws mathematically in software with a minimum of schematics. You don't try to recreate a tube in hardware, but to capture and reproduce the results of the natural processes involved. It stands to reason with sufficiently powerful hardware and software, you could recreate this phenomenon with an accuracy way beyond the output of an actual tube... To create a mathematically perfect model/replacement for a mortal, tangible and fallible object.

 

end quote.

 

humans don't hear with math-- hence why people still go back to 'fallible objects. not to say digital hasn't made advances.. but who's going to gig with a supercomputer?

 

i get the point.. sure-- digital at it's very best-- i'm sure it'll be fantastic. but those fallible objects work reliably, compactly, relatively cheaply, and don't require more programming than putting decent tubes in them. 'til it's all fixed up and they have the 'chaos theory' plugin figured out.. i'm stickin with tubes. nothing generates random chaos like good analog. mathematical models... not so much yet.

[duodecim]

i get the point.. sure-- digital at it's very best-- i'm sure it'll be fantastic. but those fallible objects work reliably, compactly, relatively cheaply, and don't require more programming than putting decent tubes in them. 'til it's all fixed up and they have the 'chaos theory' plugin figured out.. i'm stickin with tubes. nothing generates random chaos like good analog. mathematical models... not so much yet.

 

 

Well, tubes might be "cheap", but I wouldn't consider them reliable... and you still need a tube amp. Price of Axe-FX vs. tube pre isn't that different. In fact, they're pretty much the same ballpark (economic logic, I suppose).

 

The problem isn't the mathematical model

[DavidMgT]

The day digital amps sound better..which to me sounds like never.

[newholland]

I just wanted to point out the difference between solid state and digital modelling, and that's definitely feasible to mathematically

[RaceU4her]

[duodecim]

The day digital amps sound better..which to me sounds like never.

 

 

Once digital gets it right, you could have new, perfectly biased, high-quality tubes cranked to exactly the point you like, without warm-up period, every time again, no matter the circumstances. That consistency is what I meant with "better".

[RaceU4her]

i wonder how this poll would be different if we did it now?

[wanky]

digital signal procesing gets better everyday

but we still and will always like the real thing

SS/modeling has taken over tube amps at the practice amp and in some case the studio recording level simply becuase they are cheaper

but i can't think of any solid state amp that has the tonal articulation of a good tube amp at stage volume

theortically the only way to retain the tonal articulation is to have {censored} loads of power so far that hasn't worked

great amp makers have tried and failed, the best example being marshall's mode 4

line 6's HD147 is another

also digital signal processing in the preamp and tube in power section so far cannot match a real tube amp

bogner and line 6 tried the spider valve and its not sinking in,

and peaveys vyryr with a 6L6 power section sounds alright but once u crank em they aren't quite the same as the real 5150 or JSX that they try to model

however i see digital technology applied toward the good old tube amps

like the JMP-6 preamp is pure tube but the settings and adjusted and saved via digital circuits

the JVMs footswitch and digital reverb is another example

amps with midi capability are another




i see a future where the amp is controlled by a computer however, the guitar signal is amplified by tubes purely

on heads instead of a panel of knobs and swtiches it will have a touch screen like the ipod touch. it will have an intelligent operating system. on that operating system you can adjust and measure things like bias, gain, THD, damping level, eq, and can estimate the life of the tubes etc.

it may have cool feature like being download someones else setting through wireles internet

however in terms of amplification it is still a traditional tube amp, the preamp loaded with 12ax7s and the power section either 6L6 or el34s

however this must be road tough as {censored} and easy to use

[mparsons]

Anyone want to guess when wheels will become obsolete?

[DirtyBird]

There will always be a market among audiophiles. Home audio whores will buy tube power amps that cost thousands of dollars just to play their cd's with more "Sparkle" or something... It's absurd, but they hear a difference...

Just like we hear a difference between the $20 cable and the $30 cable... we will most likely always "hear" a difference, real or not, and thus we will continue with tubes likely for another half dozen decades I bet.

All this computer processing and such... all to emulate what we've already got. Why bother?

Have synthesizers made pianos obsolete? In some cases, yes, but we still have plenty of pianos around.

You can make super high tech guitar amps to emulate tubes and probably get really close, but the fact is that tube amps are far simpler and reliable... I see no need to rush to replace them.

tubes won't become obsolete until SS sounds as good also, the military will keep using them until they find something else that is as resistant to EMPs and as cost efficient as tubes

The US doesnt care as much about having an EMP-resistant technological foundation these days. Especially as computerized as most things are. You cant make modern computers out of tubes and keep them practical. Some of hte old tube stuff may still be running but the fact that the most recent (to my knowledge) US JAN tubes were made in the 80s should be a big hint to you.

[NotDead]

Around 1968.

[M1K3999]

NEVER

[Captain Commie]

The day moddlers replace pianos, and concert violinst start buying electric violins is when tube amps die.

In short never, the electric guitar is defiened by the sound of tube amplifiers and attempting to replace them with a program is not possible, as trying to moddle all the "quirks" and "flaws" of a tube amp is to complex IMO. Plus there'll always be the nestalgia of a tube amp.

Lets face it, the music world is somewhat backwards from a technological standpoint. Were the only people who still use vaccume tubes. We buy most of the germanium transistors. We've hardly changed anything about the electric guitar in over 60 years. Once we like the way something sounds, we keep it. Even when technology seems to have passed us by.