Members The Realm Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 already are since 1965:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Clinically Deaf Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 In some instances there is definitely something to be desired for the metal rhythms a ss amp can put down. However ss amps will never be able to touch tubes for lush liquid lead tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metalfanat1c Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 In some instances there is definitely something to be desired for the metal rhythms a ss amp can put down. However ss amps will never be able to touch tubes for lush liquid lead tones.+1. I've never got a good liquid lead tone out of an SS amp... but most of my tube amps have been Peaveys so I've never got one out of my tube amps either. I like SS for metal rhythm pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members platinum Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Never Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nevandal Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverDriven Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 In some instances there is definitely something to be desired for the metal rhythms a ss amp can put down. However ss amps will never be able to touch tubes for lush liquid lead tones. No one here is talking about SS. We're mainly talking about digital, which is completely different from SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NaturalBornBoy Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Line 6 and now Fractal audio have been pwning the t00bs pretty hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 What the marketplace accepts (and how fast it does) doesn't correlate with the technology and how soon it can be done. As far as replicating the sounds and feel of an amp it can be done, and many people are finding that out now with the Axe-FX. All it takes is very, very good programming. The "feel" and response can all be replicated in algorithms. Companies like Eventide had already done it for effects a long time ago, and now Fractal Audio is doing it full-on for amps. You have to understand that Line 6 and similar companies are NOT trying to get as close as they possibly can. They can't. It would be too expensive. They are a company and they have their marketplace.... they are a business more than they are a high quality innovator. Money comes first, and they have to price their products accordingly. They cut a LOT of corners and aren't as dedicated to innovating. That's where Cliff and Fractal Audio are different. He is a genius electrical engineer who made this thing for himself. He is extremely meticulous and is constantly looking to improve his product where he can. Now, it's unexpectedly grown a great demand, and with new users and a growing community, Cliff is receiving more and more feedback and ideas on how to improve the product and add more functionality, and it just keeps getting better and better. You will never see anything like that from Line 6, and that's a major thing that's holding them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Boris the Blade Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 They already are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thinkpad20 Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 "Obsolete" suggests that the thing in question has been replaced by something better. Now, the best thing that a modeler can do is recreate what it models to the finest detail. However, will that be any better than the thing it is modeling in the first place? No. Modelers are there for people who want the sound of a tube amp but with more versatility, digital controls, etc. But ultimately, if you want the sound of a tube amp - you can always get a tube amp. Basically by definition, a copy can only be as good as the thing it tries to copy, not more so. Now, in terms of versatility, cost, size, durability - all of these things might make a modeler more desirable, if indeed it could replicate the sound of tubes to the Nth degree. However, from a purely sound point of view (which is ultimately the most important thing to those who care about such things), there's still no reason to use one over a tube amp. In short, tube amps will always be around as long as people like the sound of tube amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 "Obsolete" suggests that the thing in question has been replaced by something better. Now, the best thing that a modeler can do is recreate what it models to the finest detail. However, will that be any better than the thing it is modeling in the first place? No. Modelers are there for people who want the sound of a tube amp but with more versatility, digital controls, etc. But ultimately, if you want the sound of a tube amp - you can always get a tube amp. Basically by definition, a copy can only be as good as the thing it tries to copy, not more so. Now, in terms of versatility, cost, size, durability - all of these things might make a modeler more desirable, if indeed it could replicate the sound of tubes to the Nth degree. However, from a purely sound point of view (which is ultimately the most important thing to those who care about such things), there's still no reason to use one over a tube amp.In short, tube amps will always be around as long as people like the sound of tube amps. A great tube amp usually can do one or two great sounds. A great modeler could do 100 great sounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thinkpad20 Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 A great tube amp usually can do one or two great sounds. A great modeler could do 100 great sounds... Even if that's true, it's irrelevant. First of all there are many tube amps which are highly versatile and can cover all kinds of ground. Second, if you have the sound you want, why do you need 90-something others? That's like asking, why buy a regular knife when you can buy a Swiss Army knife? It's got the knife, and scissors, and a toothpick, and tweezers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoshuaLogan Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Even if that's true, it's irrelevant. First of all there are many tube amps which are highly versatile and can cover all kinds of ground. Second, if you have the sound you want, why do you need 90-something others? That's like asking, why buy a regular knife when you can buy a Swiss Army knife? It's got the knife, and scissors, and a toothpick, and tweezers... Most of the really versatile tube amps are "jack of all trades, master of none".... or maybe master of one.... they usually will excell in one area and be "decent" in another area. If you only use one sound and have the sound you want and you're happy, then cool..... but if you could get that same sound in a modeler for the same price, while also having access to tons of other great sounds, you'd be stupid to not pick the modeler. why would you want less for the same money? Great modeling, in my opinion, not only offers you the sounds of great tube amps, but it offers you your IDEALIZED sound.... you have enough tweaking options to get exactly what you want, without all of the annoyances that come with tube amps. That's why the axe-fx is making so many people so happy. It easily gets you in the ballpark of great tube amps, but unlike Line 6 it tries to improve upon them, instead of replicating them down to their faults. This allows you an idealized sound that wasn't before possible. It's something most any guitarist would love to have. I'm not saying it's "better" or anything like that, but for many people it's already happening now, and I think I will be one of them pretty soon. heh. It's not just great amps though. it's great cabs, mics, etc. All of this effect your sound, and it's nearly impossible to have enough gear to get you the closest to you want if you like a wide variety of sounds.... for example the best cab and speakers for a clean sound will hardly ever be the best cab and speakers for a great high gain sound, but many of us make a compromise with v30 4x12 or 2x12 that does high gain well and cleans "so-so".... see what I mean? It'd never be your ideal sound. Of course, it'd be possible for someone with lots and lots of money to have a whole different signal chain and rig for each kind of sound they wanted to, but it'd be very expensive and be very complicated to use live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Say Ocean Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 5 more pages It'll surpass tubes when someone spends enough money and time programming and coding and when people accept it :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YearOfTheRat Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Niether will ever be "obselete". People still hand make oil paints when higher quality paints can be had much cheaper. This is art, there is no better, just different. Having said that, it will be a beautiful day when every bedroom jammer and newb can have bogner, fender, and recto sounds perfected for cheap. I think alot of people on this board will cry when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members clay_finley Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 SS sales may be up, but 1. pros largely still use tubes consistently... 2. tubes rule for live use 3. the variety of tube amps has exploded in the last 10 years. all kinds of cool kits available, lots of small shops, lots of knowledge available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarist_with_ Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Tubes will be gone when everyone is happy to sound like {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zyngath Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Imo the tubes will never completely vanish, but for the masses the modellers will take over or already are doing so.There are simply too many advantages for the digital technologie:I could go on with this list, but i guess those are the most important arguments pro digital. The average joe simply goes for whats most convenient....and thats the digital amp.There will always be people that prefer the tube for the feel and the tone, but that number will decrease with every new generation of modellers.Imo its great to have the choice. I like both digital and tube ams for different reasons. I dont see tubes dying out, but the market for tube amps will shrink more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JesperX Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 "Blah blah blah, my digital unit can do EVERY SOUND IMAGINABLE in a rather mediocre manner" "Blah blah blah, I like tubes because I can put them in my butt at night" "Blah blah blah, I like solid state because it sounds better for tight metal tones that I can hear over the faint sound of my mom calling me out of my bedroom for more of her dry meatloaf" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Snake Plissken Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Obsolete? Never. But I could see them being legislated out of existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 9ball Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaytee123 Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 SS sales may be up, but 1. pros largely still use tubes consistently... 2. tubes rule for live use 3. the variety of tube amps has exploded in the last 10 years. all kinds of cool kits available, lots of small shops, lots of knowledge available. #1.- forgot to make that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaytee123 Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 No one here is talking about SS. We're mainly talking about digital, which is completely different from SS. What do you think are in those IC chips, applesauce??? Transistors! Just not the ones you're used to seeing on circuit boards, but transistors nonetheless. Multiple Transistors=IC Chips= Binary Output = Digital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaytee123 Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 Never.take cars for example, for years there's been 4 cylinder cars capable of smoking 8 cylinder cars, but have V8's lost popularity/panache/desirability? No. People will always want a V8. Or V12 if they got the $$. just for the sake of being able to say "It's a tube amp". The four cylinder cars will smoke the 8 cylinder off the line. Getting into the higher speeds the 8 will kill the 4 cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shask Posted February 10, 2008 Members Share Posted February 10, 2008 I think it will be uber expensive and for a smaller select richer group for years to come. SO I dont think they will go away 100% for a long time, but I do think you will see them less in the general public... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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