Why Don't ALL High Gain Amps Come with Built-in Noise Gates?

[TheAmazingBlob]

I've never found that I've needed my noise gate unless there was something wrong with my tubes, but they're generally nice for cutting down on background noise and eliminating feedback.

[The Anomaly]

That's cool bro, you don't play amps that would need a gate so I woudn't expect you to understand this thread.

 

 

It's not about understanding the thread, I was in a band where I used a Dual Rec, I owned both the 2 channel and 3 channel, and used a Knucklehead Reverb and II, and an H & K switchblade in the same band. I also used to use an ADA MP-1 with a Rocktron Hush, and a Rocktron Chameleon and used the gate as well. I used to run my Dual Rec gains on about 6, or 1:00, and the amp was pretty quiet.

 

It's about learning how to play with less gain, and controlling your guitar. You'd be surprised at how some albums are recorded, using much less gain than you'd think.

 

I'll get all the hum, noise, and feedback I want if I stand in front of any of my current amps, facing them, volume up, gain up, but once you turn around, walk away, turn your gain down, work your guitar volume, etc, it's a whole different ballgame.

 

I use much less gain now than I ever did, and my tones are better because of it.

 

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't use a noise gate, but you and I both know if you were to turn your gain knob down, that would get rid of at least some of the problem, and you'd probably be able to play just the same and have clearer tone.

[RaceU4her]

 

I've always used/needed a gate with any of the high gain amps I've used over the years, especially at high volume levels. You can get away with at lower house volumes, but they all get pretty hissy when they are cranked and set for high gain imo.

 

 

 

 

yeah, especially if your on a small stage and in front of your amp. one of the things that bugs me the most about bands is when they have a pause in the song or at the beginning or end of the song where all you hear is that terrible high pitched static.

[Chrisjd]

Are you boosting your 5150 to get that level of noise?? I've played quite a few 5150's and never had this problem. Granted you have a LOT more experience with them, and I can't recall the settings I was using. I do remember the gain was set higher than I normally use.

No boost.

It happens with all my amps, some more than others. I am pretty conservative with the gain in relation to the amount the amps have too.

[knucklefux]

one more thing to consider...

 

how many snobs/purists/morons would scoff at the idea of some SS components miffing up an otherwise "all tube signal path"?

[Chrisjd]

It's not about understanding the thread, I was in a band where I used a Dual Rec, I owned both the 2 channel and 3 channel, and used a Knucklehead Reverb and II, and an H & K switchblade in the same band. I also used to use an ADA MP-1 with a Rocktron Hush, and a Rocktron Chameleon and used the gate as well. I used to run my Dual Rec gains on about 6, or 1:00, and the amp was pretty quiet. It's about learning how to play with less gain, and controlling your guitar. You'd be surprised at how some albums are recorded, using much less gain than you'd think. I'll get all the hum, noise, and feedback I want if I stand in front of any of my current amps, facing them, volume up, gain up, but once you turn around, walk away, turn your gain down, work your guitar volume, etc, it's a whole different ballgame. I use much less gain now than I ever did, and my tones are better because of it. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't use a noise gate, but you and I both know if you were to turn your gain knob down, that would get rid of at least some of the problem, and you'd probably be able to play just the same and have clearer tone.

 

 

Ok, but here is the thing.

 

I need a certain level of gain to get the sound I want. Turning down the gain isn't applicable in every situation. I still need some saturation. I roll back as much as I can before it starts losing saturation and sustain.

[The Anomaly]

Also Chris, I was disagreeing with your idea that manufacturers make amps that "can't be used out of the box" (your words).

What on earth has everyone been doing (for decades) up to this point if amps don't work without noise gates?

[EdgeOfDarkness]

yeah, especially if your on a small stage and in front of your amp. one of the things that bugs me the most about bands is when they have a pause in the song or at the beginning or end of the song where all you hear is that terrible high pitched static.

 

 

the other guitarist in the band is one noisy mother{censored}er, it doesnt matter what guitar or amp he is playing on...it drives me {censored}ing nuts.

[Chrisjd]

Also Chris, I was disagreeing with your idea that manufacturers make amps that "can't be used out of the box" (your words). What on earth has everyone been doing (for decades) up to this point if amps don't work without noise gates?

Good question.

But, I couldn't take my Cobra or Rivera onstage and play it without having feedback and squeeling. Again, this is using the crunch channel on the Cobra and about half of the gain on my rivera. Maybe saying that the amps are "not usable" was a little bit of an overstatement, but for me I couldn't do a good job live with that much annoyance in my sound.

[Dimebag11]

so, noisegates are useless.

[Chrisjd]

Oh, and most pro metal bands out there have decimators or ns-2s.

[DeathMonkey]

one more thing to consider... how many snobs/purists/morons would scoff at the idea of some SS components miffing up an otherwise "all tube signal path"?

This. I don't want anything in my signal path that doesn't have to be there. Also, building a noise gate into the amp limits you to whatever quality of noise gate they build in. The NG on my Powerball is kinda crap, I'd rather it not be there. If i needed one, I could then go get one that met my needs better instead of having some inferior piece of junk cluttering my amp circuit.

Personally, using a power conditioner has cut down on noise more than anything else I've tried. Just breaking the ground loops present in most club's wiring helps immensely.

[Chrisjd]

This. I don't want anything in my signal path that doesn't have to be there. Also, building a noise gate into the amp limits you to whatever quality of noise gate they build in. The NG on my Powerball is kinda crap, I'd rather it not be there. If i needed one, I could then go get one that met my needs better instead of having some inferior piece of junk cluttering my amp circuit. Personally, using a power conditioner has cut down on noise more than anything else I've tried. Just breaking the ground loops present in most club's wiring helps immensely.

Maybe ISP should team up with some higher gain amp makers. They are very high quality.

[Shiny_Surface]

Oh, and most pro metal bands out there have decimators or ns-2s.

Alot of them do. It's considered cool or bragging rights to say you don't need one at very loud stage volumes with really high gain. To each his own I say...

For amps that are studio queens, it's alot easier to get away with not needing one imo.

[DeathMonkey]

Maybe ISP should team up with some higher gain amp makers. They are very high quality.

Why not just buy one yourself?

[Chrisjd]

Why not just buy one yourself?

I have. But it would be kind of nice to have a total package right out the door rather than having to buy all these components to get the amp to perform the way it should in the first place.

[RaceU4her]

 

the other guitarist in the band is one noisy mother{censored}er, it doesnt matter what guitar or amp he is playing on...it drives me {censored}ing nuts.

 

 

 

 

yeah, dosent really give a band a very "polished" sound imo. ill take the 3% loss in tone that your not gonna hear anyway with the whole band playing and not have to fiddle with knobs or change my settings.

[Dropped_2_C]

I use a decimator, or if I use the engl I use the gate on the amp... i just turn it down to where if I hit it lightly it opens, and if I am not playing it is closed, I use it mostly when we play small venues and I am close to the amp, or at the jam room when we blast it

[17 Tubes]

Eric Johnson played here a couple years ago, and his rig had SO much noise in it. He just used his volume controls.

I think it's the lights, I've played the venue myself and I am ALWASY noisy.

Of all the things in my rig...the noise gates (signal gate...lol tlb you are right!) are the LEAST of my worries. In fact, I make a point of keeping them very low or off. I'm capable of controlling my sound without them, thanks.

[ENdtime]

Take a 5150, put the gain on 5, and try playing live with a band. There is so much noise and squeeling going on if your not rolling off the volume constantly it isn't even funny. I know what I am doing.

I have the gain on 6-7 on my 5150 and I never use a gate.. Honestly I can utilize my amp and guitars to get the feedback when I need it and keep it at bay long enough when I dont need the feedback.. SOme venues may cause problems just by the inherent noise, but at that point I embrace it and pass along that excess noise and feedback to crowd..

[17 Tubes]

Alot of them do. It's considered cool or bragging rights to say you don't need one at very loud stage volumes with really high gain. To each his own I say... For amps that are studio queens, it's alot easier to get away with not needing one imo.

I like turning off the volume with guitar or pedal anyway. It's just a good habit to not have ANY guitar noise in between. Now if you want to say that's me bragging or trying to be cool, fine. I hate all the stupid noises guitar players make between songs, random flapping at strings, feedback...lots of junk a moderately set noise gate doesn't close.

[TheEsupremacy]

Chris, I understand exactly what you're talking about here man. Please get two ISP Decimator pedals and use them individually in the loop and in front. I get laughed at by everyone for saying this until they HEAR how good it actually works. Your threshhold in front should be set about 11:30 and the loop(s) will create LESS noise so 9-10 o'clock should be good there. This is why a G String didn't work for me. It always sucked TOO much tone out of the loop. Also, check preamp tubes and cables. My feedback has always started there. Don't sweat the retarded responses here either. The pros (almost every one of them) uses some form of noise reduction in their signal path.

[Shiny_Surface]

I like turning off the volume with guitar or pedal anyway. It's just a good habit to not have ANY guitar noise in between. Now if you want to say that's me bragging or trying to be cool, fine. I hate all the stupid noises guitar players make between songs, random flapping at strings, feedback...lots of junk a moderately set noise gate doesn't close.

 

 

You're not the demographic the thread starter was referring to in the first place.

 

He's talking about high gain djent stop/start stuff, at stage volume. Not playing classic rock and riding the volume knob on a guitar...

[guitarbilly74]

Bugera got you covered

[Koflan]

I think the usefulness of a gate depends on what you're playing.

If you're playing tight and polished stuff where the idea is to get it to sound as much like a studio mix as possible, then a gate would be good. If you're playing something more loose and expressive where letting more hang out is part of the sound you're going for, then a gate would only inhibit you.

I guess it depends on whether you want to just lay down your parts, or if you'd count the amp as part of the instrument and whatnot. Though I guess that with a level of gain that would make hum uncontrollable, the first would tend to apply. Soooo, gate on!