Members PlayboyChris Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 The only people who will "probably die" are the pilots/crew and the first class business a-holes. and who cares about them. LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 Modern technology at its finest. Eh, the F-16 was designed in the 70's. It's a great plane, but fly by wire was at its infancy back then. I wouldn't call it "modern" technology. The A330 is actually a newer design. I'm surprised though that it has no redundancy and backup. I thought that, by law (or regulation), passenger planes were required to have triple redundant control systems. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 Eh, the F-16 was designed in the 70's. It's a great plane, but fly by wire was at its infancy back then. I wouldn't call it "modern" technology. The A330 is actually a newer design. I'm surprised though that it has no redundancy and backup. I thought that, by law (or regulation), passenger planes were required to have triple redundant control systems.-W Apparently there are redundancies, but if the 'master' computer gets fouled, then you're SOL. At the subsystem level there are multiple back up sensors and the like and the system is supposed to automatically disregard bad sensor information and switch to the back ups. Apparently, one of the more recent situations with an Airbus 330 that is supposedly really similar to this case, the primary sensor for something gave out and instead of the system disregarding and switching to the backups, it shut the backups off and took data only from the fouled up sensor, which forced the plane into a steep dive while the system tried to auto correct. The Airbus also has an automatic link up with Airbus' central maintenance computer. According to Airbus, they received system failure information that was almost identical to the case I mentioned above for a full four minutes after ATC lost contact with the aircraft.I'm a n00b to a lot of this, and I'm going on what my friend is saying, and he's flown the A330's before. Apologies if I'm missing info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaytee123 Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 If you didn't know once a plane is like 100 miles offshore they are completely off radar.... The search and rescue or recovery whatever you want to call it at this point are scouring an apparant 50 mile area just for the black box alone... plus you have to figure in how much wind, tide and currents will factor into where alot of the passengers wind up Theres no GPS?Also, out of 228 passengers, wouldn't one of them possibly have a cell phone that has GPS?And before someone says"you have to turn off your cell phones:1)Not everyone follows directions2) There is a chance some may have been turned on in a time of distress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RJpilot Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 Godspeed to the passengers, crew and their families. Very sad. BTW I'm glad to see this thread has not deteriorated into an "If its not Boeing, I'm not going!", "Airbus is superior" pissing match. I can expect that type of behavior at the pilot boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RJpilot Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 The only people who will "probably die" are the pilots/crew and who cares about them. Thanks alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members maltomario Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 Theres no GPS?Also, out of 228 passengers, wouldn't one of them possibly have a cell phone that has GPS?And before someone says"you have to turn off your cell phones:1)Not everyone follows directions2) There is a chance some may have been turned on in a time of distress. GPS is not bidirectional. Even if they had their cell phones on, the only people that would know where they were using GPS would be the people holding the phone. You could triangulate their coordinates (accurate to within a certain area) using cell towers but there are no cell towers in the middle of the atlantic (at least, as far as I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 Thanks alot. np Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members magentaplacenta Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 My uncle was a commercial airline pilot for Western (remember them?) then Delta for his career. He never had a single incident in his entire career of flying - and he did International for Delta. I've never really been afraid of flying because of the numbers. Millions of people fly every day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 My uncle was a commercial airline pilot for Western (remember them?) then Delta for his career. He never had a single incident in his entire career of flying - and he did International for Delta.I've never really been afraid of flying because of the numbers. Millions of people fly every day... Statistics are always interesting though. Did you know that, statistically, you have a higher survival chance if you parachute out of a plane then if you simply land normally? -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 At 30Kft you have a good 45 minutes of glide time before hitting the hard stuff so something went very very wrong. Maybe in a Cessna... They probably impacted the surface at 400 knots or so. If that's the case there aren't any bodies left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Markdude Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 Maybe in a Cessna... They probably impacted the surface at 400 knots or so. If that's the case there aren't any bodies left. Exactly. You'd have a lot of glide time if we're talking about being at 30k feet in level controlled flight, running out of fuel, and gliding at the optimal AOA down to the surface, but I wouldn't bet on that being the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted June 3, 2009 Members Share Posted June 3, 2009 Exactly. You'd have a lot of glide time if we're talking about being at 30k feet in level controlled flight, running out of fuel, and gliding at the optimal AOA down to the surface, but I wouldn't bet on that being the case. They flew into a monster thunder storm. I've done a butt-load of international flying and have hit some incredibly {censored}ty weather over the ocean. It's not uncommon to hit a big downdraft and lose 5k feet in under a minute or so. I'm betting it was some sort of autopilot snafu that caused this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtyBird Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 Statistics are always interesting though. Did you know that, statistically, you have a higher survival chance if you parachute out of a plane then if you simply land normally? -W Do you have any way to verify this? I'd like to repeat it, but not unless I can back it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 Do you have any way to verify this? I'd like to repeat it, but not unless I can back it up! Far fewer people as a percentage die in skydiving accidents than plane crashes. The stats are skewed obviously because of the sheer numbers of people flying in planes. It's always more likely a plane will crash during takeoff or landing tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zozobra Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 It looks like the thunderstorm would have had them either way. The cloud top temperature was really high so the convective cells would have been really strong which isnt going to do much for your capacity to stay airborne or indeed stay in one piece. The cloud top was 3 Km higher than the ceiling for the plane and it was too large to circumnavigate around (it was over 1000 miles across at this level). There only real shot would be to turn around and head back to Brazil before they got shook to bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chrisjd Posted June 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 I keep imagining what it might have been like to be on the plane when this happened, and it is truly a horrifying thought.... In total darkness over the middle of the atlantic ocean, 6 miles up in the air. Plane shakes to pieces while everyone is screaming. Then plunging 30,000 feet into the deep, dark, vast ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knucklefux Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 the open ocean is pretty much devoid of life until you get to the bottom, and even then it's localized around thermal vents, so the likelihood that the bodies have been or are being eaten is pretty small. unless there are oceanic white tips in the area... if the impact caused an airplane made of metal to scatter into a debris field, what do you think it did to flesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 I keep imagining what it might have been like to be on the plane when this happened, and it is truly a horrifying thought....In total darkness over the middle of the atlantic ocean, 6 miles up in the air. Plane shakes to pieces while everyone is screaming. Then plunging 30,000 feet into the deep, dark, vast ocean. i think the smell of all those people evacuating their bowels in unison would have knocked a majority of them unconscious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 {censored} flying. Ill take my chances with all the other asphalt assholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zozobra Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 Another theory kicking about is that they hit some real insane updrafts which lofted the craft much higher than its ceiling giving it pretty much zero control. It then may have dropped back below its ceiling in a dive or on its back which would probably be unrecoverable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Anomaly Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 It looks like the thunderstorm would have had them either way. The cloud top temperature was really high so the convective cells would have been really strong which isnt going to do much for your capacity to stay airborne or indeed stay in one piece. The cloud top was 3 Km higher than the ceiling for the plane and it was too large to circumnavigate around (it was over 1000 miles across at this level). There only real shot would be to turn around and head back to Brazil before they got shook to bits. Here's a question, between the tower and the pilots, nobody could have at least *guessed* that a delay or cancellation might have been a good idea? Other flights get delayed for MUCH MUCH MUCH less, daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jack Luminous Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 The Airbus also has an automatic link up with Airbus' central maintenance computer. According to Airbus, they received system failure information that was almost identical to the case I mentioned above for a full four minutes after ATC lost contact with the aircraft.I'm a n00b to a lot of this, and I'm going on what my friend is saying, and he's flown the A330's before. Apologies if I'm missing info. Airbus has made absolutely no official statement to this day about the exact content of the automatic messages transmitted to its control center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zozobra Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 From all accounts the storm didnt look to be all that bad/uncommon so if the weather got them then whatever cropped up cropped up quickly and wasnt readily predictable. For all we know it could have been something totally different like a cargo fire that downed it or perhaps a positive lightning strike which could come from the top of any turret and not just one from an intense storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eyeball987 Posted June 4, 2009 Members Share Posted June 4, 2009 The current theory, according to what they know from the automatic notifications that they received, is that the plane broke apart during flight. Being that high and then being tossed into open air would pretty much knock you out instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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