Members jenksdrummer Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 So, just to clarify... we all know for a fact he was on PCP? or is it just speculation because he shrugged off a taser to the face? Personally, I think shooting a man 5 times in the chest and then another 5 times when he's on the ground is a bit much. Do I have a problem with the use of deadly force when it is warranted? Of course not. But this wasn't a case where deadly force was needed. The cop in the back (who shouldn't have been so close), had the dude been able to make a swing (he looked like he was just faking it to get some distance between himself and the cop) would be trained to disarm him easily. Hell, even the installers for the telecommunications company I work for are trained how to do that. The shooting cop could have easily released the Shepherd. PCP or not, you release that dog, buddy is dropping the crowbar and dropping to the ground. You can be as numb as {censored} to whatever amounts of pain, but if a dog is ripping through the tendons needed to close your hand, or the muscles to hold your arm up, you're going to drop whatever is in your hand. Also, had the cop disarmed the dude with the tactics he was trained with, PCP or not, buddy would have dropped the crowbar. But hey, let's bring in all the rednecks and internet tough guys who just want to be John Rambo claiming that buddy deserved to die, and they would have done the same thing. Apparently anyone who would have done anything but shooting the guy dead is a bleeding heart liberal. (he wasn't on the ground) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KCTigerChief Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 So, just to clarify... we all know for a fact he was on PCP? or is it just speculation because he shrugged off a taser to the face? Personally, I think shooting a man 5 times in the chest and then another 5 times when he's on the ground is a bit much. Do I have a problem with the use of deadly force when it is warranted? Of course not. But this wasn't a case where deadly force was needed. The cop in the back (who shouldn't have been so close), had the dude been able to make a swing (he looked like he was just faking it to get some distance between himself and the cop) would be trained to disarm him easily. Hell, even the installers for the telecommunications company I work for are trained how to do that. The shooting cop could have easily released the Shepherd. PCP or not, you release that dog, buddy is dropping the crowbar and dropping to the ground. You can be as numb as {censored} to whatever amounts of pain, but if a dog is ripping through the tendons needed to close your hand, or the muscles to hold your arm up, you're going to drop whatever is in your hand. Also, had the cop disarmed the dude with the tactics he was trained with, PCP or not, buddy would have dropped the crowbar. But hey, let's bring in all the rednecks and internet tough guys who just want to be John Rambo claiming that buddy deserved to die, and they would have done the same thing. Apparently anyone who would have done anything but shooting the guy dead is a bleeding heart liberal. While you're making fun of the guys saying the shooting was warranted, and for speculating that he was on PCP...you're doing the same damn thing making broad speculations that what you are saying, is what indeed would have happened. The truth is, you have no idea, just like no one in here does. Saying the cop would be trained to disarm a man wielding a deadly weapon...he may be trained, but if he feels his life is in danger, they are TRAINED to SHOOT. If dude didn't wanna get popped, he shouldn't have threatened officers. Period. End of story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Dude, I've seen the Andy Griffith show on netflix, cop shoulda asked him to come to jail and have some of Aunt B's homemade pecan pie. /HCAF Given the guy was breaking out the windows of a Carl's Jr at 9:30AM, I'm guessing he was hungry...so that mighta worked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Norton666 Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 In law enforcements eyes , releasing the K-9 is no different than letting an officer charge a perp with a deadly weapon. Youre intentionally putting an officer in harms way. That dog is just important as the humans. To me its awfully simple , you do dumb {censored} like go into a Carls Jr with a deadly weapon , then you dont listen to police orders and a taser to the face does nothing , its time to put him down. I dont know how long this whole situation took to transpire , but when the perp wasnt listening to police orders , they shouldve immediately started clearing out the area. The fact that there were still that many people hanging out watching it happen isnt a good thing . If it all happened quickly , theres nothing they could do and I understand that. The most sickening thing , is how the kids with the camera reacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KCTigerChief Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 In law enforcements eyes , releasing the K-9 is no different than letting an officer charge a perp with a deadly weapon. Youre intentionally putting an officer in harms way. That dog is just important as the humans. To me its awfully simple , you do dumb {censored} like go into a Carls Jr with a deadly weapon , then you dont listen to police orders and a taser to the face does nothing , its time to put him down. I dont know how long this whole situation took to transpire , but when the perp wasnt listening to police orders , they shouldve immediately started clearing out the area. The fact that there were still that many people hanging out watching it happen isnt a good thing . If it all happened quickly , theres nothing they could do and I understand that. The most sickening thing , is how the kids with the camera reacted. Great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Abstract~ Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 "One officers shot the man five times, and a second officer shot the man five more times after he fell to the pavement." A bit much... we all agree????? How else are you gonna make sure he's dead?Yeah. A bit much...I hope I would have acted better...but don't believe the cop should be punished.There are PLENTY of instances where cops need to be questioned...imo this isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 While you're making fun of the guys saying the shooting was warranted, and for speculating that he was on PCP...you're doing the same damn thing making broad speculations that what you are saying, is what indeed would have happened. The truth is, you have no idea, just like no one in here does. Saying the cop would be trained to disarm a man wielding a deadly weapon...he may be trained, but if he feels his life is in danger, they are TRAINED to SHOOT. If dude didn't wanna get popped, he shouldn't have threatened officers. Period. End of story Not really. I have lots of family who are members of the RCMP and and other family members who are members of the municipal police forces. They are thoroughly trained, unlike than anyone on this message board, to assess situations. For any person here, yes, a dude coming at you with a crowbar is a life-threatening situation...to a police officer, who is trained in hand-to-hand combat, who has a canine unit at his side, who has backup all around, and who has been in situations likely similar to this one, to call that situation life threatening is a stretch. Did I make fun of the supporters of itchy-trigger-finger police force? Sure, I guess so. Will it come back and go against people who disagree that the use of deadly force was warranted? Yep. One or two forumites will likely come in here and say the deadbeat deserved it and type something like "lol canada" or some arrogant bullcrap. Edit: whytf did that one cop shoot him in the FACE with a taser? They, like bullets, are most effective when fired at the centre of mass. To have a taser work effectively, you need to have it strike in as much muscle as it can. The face? Okay there John Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Abstract~ Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 the cop was holding a k9. all he had to do was release it. And put another officer into harms way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KCTigerChief Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Sorry. 5 and then 5 more as he was turning to fall on the ground. Not really. I have lots of family who are members of the RCMP and and other family members who are members of the municipal police forces. They are thoroughly trained, unlike than anyone on this message board, to assess situations. For any person here, yes, a dude coming at you with a crowbar is a life-threatening situation...to a police officer, who is trained in hand-to-hand combat, who has a canine unit at his side, who has backup all around, and who has been in situations likely similar to this one, to call that situation life threatening is a stretch. Did I make fun of the supporters of itchy-trigger-finger police force? Sure, I guess so. Will it come back and go against people who disagree that the use of deadly force was warranted? Yep. One or two forumites will likely come in here and say the deadbeat deserved it and type something like "lol canada" or some arrogant bullcrap. For the record, you're the one who started the "lol canada" 'arrogant crap' with your "lol guns" posts years ago...So get off your high horse Scott That said, perhaps training is different in Canada? I don't really know. I just know that if at anytime an officer feels threatened he is entitled to use deadly force. He will be placed on administrative leave while the case is reviewed, and at that time it will be determined if he acted correctly. And in this case, I think he did. Also, once he was on the ground, HE WAS STILL FIGHTING THE OFFICERS. Look at the left edge of the car, you can see the officer struggling to keep the guy under control...AFTER HE HAD BEEN SHOT. Maybe the shots were warranted, and maybe they weren't. But the fact of the matter is, it all happens in the blink of an eye...There's no telling how you or I, or anyone in this thread would have reacted in the same scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 In law enforcements eyes , releasing the K-9 is no different than letting an officer charge a perp with a deadly weapon. Youre intentionally putting an officer in harms way. That dog is just important as the humans. To me its awfully simple , you do dumb {censored} like go into a Carls Jr with a deadly weapon , then you dont listen to police orders and a taser to the face does nothing , its time to put him down. I dont know how long this whole situation took to transpire , but when the perp wasnt listening to police orders , they shouldve immediately started clearing out the area. The fact that there were still that many people hanging out watching it happen isnt a good thing . If it all happened quickly , theres nothing they could do and I understand that. The most sickening thing , is how the kids with the camera reacted. Releasing the Shepherd is like putting any other human officer in harms way...yes. However, K9 units are trained to disarm perps with weapons. Along with scent tracking, they exist as a police officer to take down people holding weapons. Period. They are smaller, faster, and more effective than any human, given the same situation, hence why they're bred and trained to do that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 to a police officer, who is trained in hand-to-hand combat I have trained with cops. They suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pickinatit Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 ...the dog got overlooked because they didn't really get a reasonable amount of time between the tazer and the shooting to utilize it. Besides, we don't even know what the dog was or wasn't trained to do. Maybe he wasn't trained to "bite and hold" but only as a drug sniffer. Besides, I don't think there was time. My take on the video is that the perp was jabout close enough to swing when the police started shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KCTigerChief Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have trained with cops. They suck. I have many friends that cops, and will get their input on this video after work...but none of them "train in hand to hand combat" - sure they take a class here and there, but it's not something they constantly train on...at least not around here. They DO, however, have to consistently shoot their sidearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Maybe the cop was just out walking his household pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 For the record, you're the one who started the "lol canada" 'arrogant crap' with your "lol guns" posts years ago...So get off your high horse Scott That said, perhaps training is different in Canada? I don't really know. I just know that if at anytime an officer feels threatened he is entitled to use deadly force. He will be placed on administrative leave while the case is reviewed, and at that time it will be determined if he acted correctly. And in this case, I think he did. Also, once he was on the ground, HE WAS STILL FIGHTING THE OFFICERS. Look at the left edge of the car, you can see the officer struggling to keep the guy under control...AFTER HE HAD BEEN SHOT. Maybe the shots were warranted, and maybe they weren't. But the fact of the matter is, it all happens in the blink of an eye...There's no telling how you or I, or anyone in this thread would have reacted in the same scenario. Believe it or not, I wasn't the first guy to type lol guns. I just do it now to piss off gun lovers. I doubt the training in Canada differs all that much from the US. Regarding your understanding of "that if at anytime an officer feels threatened he is entitled to use deadly force..." I don't think that's entirely true. I mean, in that case, if a cop felt threatened and the perp had no weapon, could the cop gun him down? I doubt it. As I've said before, cops are trained to assess situations like the one above in a way and at a level that we, as civilians, aren't. If that cop felt his life was in danger while surrounded by other officers, a K9 unit at his side, with all the training he had, then something is very wrong with his ability as a police officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phrophus Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Anybody have any idea what ole boy was doing in the first place? What did the cops know before the guy came out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Picklebottom Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 dont kill the dog, life is too precious even if its just a {censored}ing dog. oh, but also kill that human being. thats fine, he was asking for it. at this point im not even serious but you guys are making this too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have many friends that cops, and will get their input on this video after work...but none of them "train in hand to hand combat" - sure they take a class here and there, but it's not something they constantly train on...at least not around here. They DO, however, have to consistently shoot their sidearm. That's because if you miss a punch, you hit nothing but air. If you miss with your gun, who knows what you're going to hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Anybody have any idea what ole boy was doing in the first place? What did the cops know before the guy came out? breaking windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have trained with cops. They suck. The fact that you, someone who trains with MMA, trains alongside police officers, shows that they have skills (albeit, by your standards, lacking) above and beyond 90% of people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members isvoid Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 show up a public place with pick axe get shot; die ask god, "wtf?" god says "you dumb {censored}, you needed killin'" /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KCTigerChief Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Believe it or not, I wasn't the first guy to type lol guns. I just do it now to piss off gun lovers. I doubt the training in Canada differs all that much from the US. Regarding your understanding of "that if at anytime an officer feels threatened he is entitled to use deadly force..." I don't think that's entirely true. I mean, in that case, if a cop felt threatened and the perp had no weapon, could the cop gun him down? I doubt it. As I've said before, cops are trained to assess situations like the one above in a way and at a level that we, as civilians, aren't. If that cop felt his life was in danger while surrounded by other officers, a K9 unit at his side, with all the training he had, then something is very wrong with his ability as a police officer. I think him wielding a {censored}ing crowbar makes this an entirely different scenario than you are trying to paint The dude could take one swing and end any one of those guys. You are basically saying that the officer who was within striking distance of the perp, should have tackled him on the ground...a guy who wasn't phased by a taser...In which he would then be involved in a wrestling match with a guy with unknown strength and unknown weapons. For all we know, the guy could have had a knife in his belt, or a gun elsewhere that he could have pulled out and stabbed or shot the officer while he was wrestling... I think you are looking through rose colored glasses, and not looking at this from a standpoint that maybe, just maybe, the perp would have harmed the officer given any possible chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 The fact that you, someone who trains with MMA, trains alongside police officers, shows that they have skills (albeit, by your standards, lacking) above and beyond 90% of people here. No. They don't train. I have met only 2 cops over the years who attended the gym for only a few months each. I mean they suck, as in, they know nothing about physical combat. One of my old training partners used to be in the gym a lot, but he became a cop. Havn't seen him since (they apparently have a 1yr probation period upon hire. if they get hurt, theyre fired. or so i hear.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Abstract~ Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's because if you miss a punch, you hit nothing but air. If you miss with your gun, who knows what you're going to hit? God does.He knows everything before it even happens. Like he even knew I'd type this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members themadscientist Posted January 24, 2012 Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'd totally shoot him if I was still in my probation period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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