Modeling dudes please give me some input?

[Seattle Doug]

Hi HCAF, I am doing a little market research tonight. If you've not seen this yet, please have a look?

 

Please forgive how super-dorky I am - I don't feel totally comfortable doing those interviews and the result is I become more dorky than usual. But chicks still dig me.

 

ANYWAY. Here's the thing. I want to move into this market segment a bit conservatively and start with just ONE product. Maybe two. This one I showed at NAMM is the full-on big version because it's stereo. So it's bigger and heavier and obviously more expensive. I'm deliberating internally with the guys that maybe we should start with a MONO version, which would be easier to transport and have a lower price point.

 

So, would you please give me some opinions here? And would you also please drop in any other comments about features you feel would be of benefit? Thanks very much guys, in advance.

[guitarbilly74]

Mono with modeling is a big no-no IMHO. You really need stereo to get the best out of this type of gear. But portability is also a big issue. A lot of people buy modelers because they're tired of hauling big amps. So small AND stereo would be ideal.

[Spizzledude]

I use small 100 watt wedges at my feet in stereo. FOH gets mono feed. Sounds are set so mono feed is still cool.

[SnowStorm]

Don't do any modeling.

[DeadNight Warrior]

Mono with modeling is a big no-no IMHO. You really need stereo to get the best out of this type of gear.

 

I don't really see why.

 

Unless you want to run big stereo FX or dual amp patches with stereo separation, why need mono? Even if I got a 2nd cab and used both sides of my poweramp, I'd still be effectively running mono with the Axe. Only thing I might be inclined to actually do in stereo is the piezo side of things, if I want to add FX to create a bit of space.

[The Anomaly]

I don't really see why. Unless you want to run big stereo FX or dual amp patches with stereo separation, why need mono? Even if I got a 2nd cab and used both sides of my poweramp, I'd still be effectively running mono with the Axe. Only thing I might be inclined to actually do in stereo is the piezo side of things, if I want to add FX to create a bit of space.

 

I agree.

[Seattle Doug]

 

Mono with modeling is a big no-no IMHO. You really need stereo to get the best out of this type of gear. But portability is also a big issue. A lot of people buy modelers because they're tired of hauling big amps. So small AND stereo would be ideal.

 

 

Nice. What if I do a mono cab but it has the stereo amp in it? Then I can offer a passive can which can slave off the powered cab?

[Seattle Doug]

I don't really see why. Unless you want to run big stereo FX or dual amp patches with stereo separation, why need mono? Even if I got a 2nd cab and used both sides of my poweramp, I'd still be effectively running mono with the Axe. Only thing I might be inclined to actually do in stereo is the piezo side of things, if I want to add FX to create a bit of space.

 

That's what I was thinking: that you want big effects. You've got them, why not use them?

[gspointer]

 

That's what I was thinking: that you want big effects. You've got them, why not use them?

 

 

Most pa's are dual mono.

[guitarbilly74]

 

Nice. What if I do a mono cab but it has the stereo amp in it? Then I can offer a passive can which can slave off the powered cab?

 

 

That actually sounds awesome. Line 6 did something similar with the Flextone III Plus.

 

It had a 1x12 powered by a D class amp. Plugging an extension cab into the external speaker out would activate a 2nd power amp for full stereo sounds. That gives you portability AND flexibility.

[guitarbilly74]

I don't really see why. Unless you want to run big stereo FX or dual amp patches with stereo separation, why need mono? Even if I got a 2nd cab and used both sides of my poweramp, I'd still be effectively running mono with the Axe. Only thing I might be inclined to actually do in stereo is the piezo side of things, if I want to add FX to create a bit of space.

 

If you are designing a product that is meant to work with a certain unit, it's best to make it so the user has the possibility of using the full potential of the unit it is designed to work with.

[lz4005]

Don't do any modeling.

 

[-Juggernaut-]

I wanna know more about the Earhart50, it looks like the Cornford internally, any relation? price point?

[Neilrocks25]

I voted for

 

 

350DP, 350 watt, mono version about 60% the size of the 700DP

 

 

why? because it will sell more, mostly to home user's and pub/bar bands

[HKSblade1]

I love the idea you guys have.

 

Just some questions about the current 700dp. What is the sound like with the hf or mid range drivers tilted angle? IDK seems weird to me. Also are their internal baffles isolating each side?

 

What you might consider in that 412 option are speakers that are full range or coaxial for tops and mid bass drivers on the bottoms.

 

When I have used modeling live, I like more separation of the cabs. So yeah I like the idea of the amp in one cab and passive extension.

 

You need two options. Stereo for a single guitar player and mono for bands with more than one guitarist or a guitarist that doesn't really play stereo.

 

Currently I have a QSC RMX350 power amp and a pair of 1x12's with Beyma coaxial speakers. I also tried Eminence Beta 12lta and Fane Sovereign Series Coax drivers.

 

I prefer the coax speaker to any compression horn or hf driver. Those comp drivers hisssss too much and its annoying. I tried using powered pa speakers and it is meh. I think some guys are just getting used to it though since options are limited to those in order to properly tailor various amp model types. To me its just not a guitar amp rig feel playing live with pa cabinets or floor wedges.

 

That's the problem with modeling and live sound. Not many applicable amplification solutions and more sacrificing of one thing to make something else work. Some get used to the sound of pa cabs, comp drivers, and a "good enough" method of using it. I rather see a rig like you guys are going for.

 

There's a bunch of alternate amplification sources and newer ones being introduced with fancy names that will probably be as compromising overall. After the fuss is over in the end its still sounds nothing amp like at all. Some have additional coloring they have to fight, and others are just meh.

 

I'd say amplifying these modeling units is a huge problem, too big a compromise or sacrifice for many players wanting a traditional feel.

[The Rossness]

I wanna know more about the Earhart50, it looks like the Cornford internally, any relation? price point?

 

me too.

 

Howdy Doug,

 

I'm into portability and a great dynamic sound. Have you thought of using smaller speakers? What about weight? I'd like to see a product like the kind of thing that Markbass designs. Their cabs sound great and are very light weight. If you could incorporate everything into a lightweight design, I think it would be very cool.

 

How would something like this sound for an analog modeling system like the Egnater/ Randall MTS system?

[DeadNight Warrior]

That's what I was thinking: that you want big effects. You've got them, why not use them?

 

I didn't buy the Axe-FX for big stereo FX, just like the PODs and Boss GTs and whatever else I had before it. I like the Axe coz it gets me the sounds I want, plus a lot more that I couldn't do with my old gear, and without taking up half of my living space. And then if I want some basic FX, the Axe will easily cover all that too.

 

I use very little in the way of FX, and pretty much nothing in the way of stereo FX. Just some basic pitch FX, EQs, compression, basic delays, maybe some synth and looper stuff to piss off my bandmates. I have a momentary switch on my controller that triggers a pair of horrible, loud, sustained, off-pitch synth notes, until I take my foot off the switch. It's there for the sole purpose of irritating my bandmates, and it does that perfectly fine in mono.

 

If I wanted stereo... I'd still prefer two smaller cabs. A) Easier to move about, and B) I can actually get some physical space between the L and R. And then if for an occasion a full stereo rig would be just taking the piss, I can leave one at home and just go mono. Personally I don't really see the appeal of a big FRFR powered 4x12 cab.

[Mesa/Kramer]

You gotta have stereo as all the intended pre amps are stereo based.

 

But 350 watts per side for a Guitar rig?

I think that wattage is a bit overkill.

 

100 watts per side or even 50, would cover most any need.

[theAntihero]

 

You gotta have stereo as all the intended pre amps are stereo based. But 350 watts per side for a Guitar rig? I think that wattage is a bit overkill. 100 watts per side or even 50, would cover most any need.

 

 

50 SS watts a side is probably less than youd think, 100 is a good number though.

 

Its an interesting idea, usually with solid state i find that the more power the better and stereo always sounds better IMHO, think about it most of the better liked SS amps are stereo.

[MadKeithV]

I vote floor wedge!

[gspointer]

Put a mic/line in on it with a mix knob and make it a wedge.

[telephant]

 

[TheRymanChu]

If I wanted stereo... I'd still prefer two smaller cabs. A) Easier to move about, and B) I can actually get some physical space between the L and R. And then if for an occasion a full stereo rig would be just taking the piss, I can leave one at home and just go mono. Personally I don't really see the appeal of a big FRFR powered 4x12 cab.

 

This ^. 700 watts is a boatload of power, are you designing for 8 string guitars? A few guys need stereo all of the time, most guys want stereo occasionally. Most guitarists are more concerned with tone, price and portability over whether it is stereo. I feel if you're going to go stereo then you should angle each side and have a verticle baffle in the middle to spread the sound more. If one cab was 700W and the other was passive vs. both being 350W what would be the difference in price and weight? From a practical standpoint, vertical 2X12s make the most sense, but they probably would not sell as well. You don't see a lot of guys on stage using spread vertical 2X12s. The wedge idea is interesting, but I don't see the appeal of designing it for just the modeling amp and not the entire FOH mix in the wedge.

[Slaymoar]

The title of this thread sincerely made me think it was a troll thread, but then I saw the thread starter and it registered..

[HKSblade1]

 

This ^. 700 watts is a boatload of power, are you designing for 8 string guitars? A few guys need stereo all of the time, most guys want stereo occasionally. Most guitarists are more concerned with tone, price and portability over whether it is stereo. I feel if you're going to go stereo then you should angle each side and have a verticle baffle in the middle to spread the sound more. If one cab was 700W and the other was passive vs. both being 350W what would be the difference in price and weight? From a practical standpoint, vertical 2X12s make the most sense, but they probably would not sell as well. You don't see a lot of guys on stage using spread vertical 2X12s. The wedge idea is interesting, but I don't see the appeal of designing it for just the modeling amp and not the entire FOH mix in the wedge.

 

 

Good Points.

 

Wedge idea.. meh been done and I used that a while and it stinks. Why? Because on a live stage you get the sound to you, but the stage area and the area in front of the stage or dance floor sound is blah! There is no guitar or its very weak.

 

I only realized this when I took my wife to see a friends band who played with a nice $1000 wedge. At the dance floor you couldn't hear {censored}. Several people were yelling at him to turn his guitar up. Then he did crank his modeler and the FOH system went real high and I watched the soundman freak.

 

To use wedges, the stage at least needs some type of side fills since FOH's are aimed away from the floor or nearest the stage area.

 

Another instance of this was a friends band. One with a modeler and powered wedge (atomic IIRC) and another with a tube amp and 4x12. You couldn't even even hear the modeling rig, Same thing. I think he heard himself, but the ones not in the path of the FOH PA were like WTF!

 

Once I saw this for myself I then realized what our own patrons and friends were saying about my guitar getting lost in the mix with our other guitarist. FOH is fine, its the ones closest to you that can't hear the wedge. After that I went to 1x12's on stands or a 212V cab. Even still was tough to compete with a Diezel head and 4x12 so I went back to my Marshall.