Members EvilTwin Posted May 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 I scored a real TS pick one time from an old bluegrasser. Paid him 20 bucks for it. Shape was perfect, just like a standard fender pick. Best pick ever. I managed to hold onto it for about 3 years before I lost it.Oh, well. Fender heavys are almost(maybe 75%) as good, don't require an endangered specie's demise, and are a heck of a lot more replaceable. I thought the feel of the "real thing" was maybe better than other picks I've played, and it did bring out the best in the guitars I played...but it also had too much "string click" for me (which is one thing I don't like about modern gypsy jazzers who playing with really, really heavy picks, too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 There is a shop on Dong Khoi that sells real tortoise shell stuff. But I've never seen picks in there. Mostly combs, jewelry. It is across from the old Continental Hotel. The street used to be the Rue Catinat during the French colonial days, back when Graham Greene was writing "The Quiet American" in room 407. The street was named "Tu Do" (Tu Zo) Street during the time the US was fighting here. Today, it's called "Dong Khoi". Same difference. Opera House, Continental Hotel, tourists walking around dazed from the heat. Rue Catinat: Of course, there has been some remodeling there of late. I know the shop is still on Dong Khoi somewhere though. I've seen it lately. Never went inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smatel Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 As Andrew said, buying, selling, making, transporting items on the CITIES list - including tortoise shell (and ivory and Brazillan rosewood and a lot of other things) is illegal. If you happen to own a tortoise shell pick that was made before the ban, go ahead an play it. If you can rationalize to your self killing a turtle to make a guitar pick (or killing and leaving an elephant so you can have an ivory saddle) for whatever benefit you think you get, I'm sorry for you. Oh, I guess that was a political statement, I'll probably be banned along with trade in tortoise shell picks.edit to add, I know that most ivory is sold as "Fossilized" which simply means it is old (some people think I'm a fossil too). However the black market still trades in ivory (and tortoise) and I simple want no part of it. Yeah but do you know how long it would take to eat an elephant! I don't know if I like ivory enough to eat an entire elephant, but who knows... Turtle soup on the other hand is reknown for it's tasty delicate flavor. BTW, I think elephants are, next to dogs, probably the coolest animal on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members min7b5 Posted May 23, 2007 Members Share Posted May 23, 2007 Unfortunately, old or not, it is illegal to own something newly made from antique tortoiseshell.... Thanks, I did know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted May 24, 2007 Members Share Posted May 24, 2007 FK: If you can rationalize to your self killing a turtle to make a guitar pick (or killing and leaving an elephant so you can have an ivory saddle) for whatever benefit you think you get, I'm sorry for you. Elephant-shmelephant. Ivory saddles are easily replaced these days by Water Buffalo bone. Over here in the best guitar shops, customers can personally select the Water Buffalo they want to be slaughtered. The luthier's apprentices will then take the beast into the alley behind the store and hack it to death while the customer waits. That may be why there always seems to be a Pho' restaurant next door to every guitar shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eflat Posted May 24, 2007 Members Share Posted May 24, 2007 hmm would be cool to have one pre- CITES reg. . . but I'd definitely keep it to myself if i had one, not just to avoid a fine but to stop promoting or influencing people to try and get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 A friend of mine came over today to play some music. He had some tortoise shell finger picks. He says you can buy them in Saigon if you ask the at the shop. But they are not put on display. That means: 1. They're sold illegally OR... 2. They're not made of tortoise shell at all. I'm thinking they are probably counterfeit. Everything is counterfeit in Saigon - except the fish sauce. But if they're real - they're definitely not legal. My friend says he knows they're real because he boiled them and they lost their shape. To him that was confirmation enough. They look stiff. But they are surprisingly flexible. Not like plastic picks I've played. Flexible yet stiff. But I would not have spent a lot of money on these picks, even if they are real. Their advantages over plastic are not worth the money. I don't know what he paid for them. Probably not a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 Don't believe I could feel good about making music that requires the death of this fellow... Hawksbill Turtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Queequeg Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 I'm a diver and have spent a lot of time in the Caribbean. Once on a dive in Dominica, I was hovering @ around 60ft when i looked up and saw a hawksbill craning his neck to look down @ me from his vantage point of about 20ft below the surface. Clunky on land, they are as graceful as birds in flight when they are swimming. This 200 lb guy circled, never taking his eyes off of me, then spiraled down to about 40 feet for a closer look and circled again. Still curious, he spiraled down again to meet me @ 60 feet. He circled in close around me, and with my outstretched hand in front of me, he swam just beneath it so that my hand rose up and over his shell. Satisfied, he sauntered off to see what else he could learn about his world.This remains one of the most extraordinary moments in my 54 years. Saying 'no' to illegal objects such as these picks means that somewhere, somebody else might be having an experience just like this- and the diver, too! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 I'm a diver and have spent a lot of time in the Caribbean. Once on a dive in Dominica, I was hovering @ around 60ft when i looked up and saw a hawksbill craning his neck to look down @ me from his vantage point of about 20ft below the surface. Clunky on land, they are as graceful as birds in flight when they are swimming........Hey, me too! I photographed many hawksbill turltes on my trips to the Caribbean. Dominica was a very cool place........did you do the whale watching trip, too? how about the hike up to the waterfalls or the boiling springs?Here are a couple of my favorite shots from Dominica:..............................................................................................................a bit more on-topic, I feel no need to use tortise shell picks in my guitar playing. I'm sure they're nice, but.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Queequeg Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 Nice photos. Looks like you did a night dive while you were there. great polyp. I lived in Dominica for 2 years. Beautiful rain forested island. beautiful mountains. Fantastic diving; best in the carib IMHO. Spent my weekends at Anchorage Dive Resort in Castle Comfort, as a Dive Master, and once took a group from Greenpeace out whale-watching. This island is in the migration path of sperm whales so I did a lot of diving and whale-watching in Dominica. I have traveled quite a bit throughout the carib and will be returning there soon for a brief visit. My girlfriend left this morning for a 6 month assignment in St Kitts. So (in a vain attempt to regain topic) I have lots of time now to practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 I lived in Dominica for 2 years. Beautiful rain forested island. beautiful mountains. Fantastic diving; best in the carib IMHO. Spent my weekends at Anchorage Dive Resort in Castle Comfort, as a Dive Master, and once took a group from Greenpeace out whale-watching. This island is in the migration path of sperm whales so I did a lot of diving and whale-watching in Dominica.You're a dive master? AWESOME!!! My wife & I stayed at the Castle Comfort resort. Nice low key place, good dive shop. Great food......including the evening we had "mountain chicken". . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 The color was too perfect. It was the same color as any Fender faux tortoise shell pick you can buy in a music store. The same as any number of eye-glass frames I've seen. I would think that actual tortoise shell might show some variations in appearance. That's why I suspect these picks were yet another item being counterfeited on the streets of Saigon. If they were real, they're not worth spending more money on AFAIC. They won't make you a better player. Concerning the morality of the situation, poor people will always kill & sell products from endangered species, if it can help them survive. Also - I don't know what kind of turtle - if these things actually came from a turtle - was killed to make these picks. It seems very doubtful to me that picks made from endangered Hawksbill Turtles are being sold for low prices in music shops in Saigon. If they were, I think shop owners would be advertising them as such & charging more for them. A case in point: " FROM THE SEA TO THE SHOPS: Stuffed Hawksbill turtles in a souvenir store in Vietnam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D For Kate Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 didi youse know they used to make picks out of unicorn horns? for reals. said to have made the prettiest music played only by gods. look at what happened to those animals now. i dont believe in tooth fairies; neither do i believe in the mystical properties of Brazilian Rosewood and ivory nut and saddle purported by unscrupulous "remember the good ol' days..." marketers. im sorry to be shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jconway Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 $50 for 1 pick? That's insane. You guys are crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenbu Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 Hey, me too! I photographed many hawksbill turltes on my trips to the Caribbean. Dominica was a very cool place........did you do the whale watching trip, too? how about the hike up to the waterfalls or the boiling springs? Here are a couple of my favorite shots from Dominica: . well I don`t use picks so I thought I was out of this thread ...`til I saw this... now I`m thinkin`...puffer fish eye inalys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tony Burns Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 You should bear in mind that trading in tortoiseshell is illegal and carries heavy penalties under the CITES regulations and has done since the 1970's when all trade in tortoiseshell was banned internationally.You may own antique tortoiseshell (combs, boxes etc.) but you may not fashion something else from it, eg guitar picks as it then, legally, ceases to be an antique and you become liable for prosecution. Andrew is 100 percent right - its also very cruel , i also feel the same way about Brazilian rosewood - alot of these new guitars with it - use wood from questionable sources - ( please dont buy new BR guitars without official CITES documentation ), ive also heard threw the grapevine that Blueridge BR guitars are questionable as well and that lots of BR is smuggled into China each day because it is so lucrative - Ebay is also full of sellers selling illegal BR usually shipped from Brazil and surrounding areas - I personnaly feel their alot of nice woods and materials to build guitars out of that have wonderful beauty as well as phenominal sound that are not endangered ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KATMAN Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 I couldn't play with a $50 pick because I'd lose it. Ellen That's why I prefer fingers,haven't lost one yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hypothetical Question: This is supposedly a photo of a shop in Saigon selling stuffed baby Hawksbill Tortoises. I've never seen this shop. But it may have been out there on Le Loi Street or somewhere. In the US, Customs would seize one of these souvenirs if an agent spotted it in one's luggage. What countries do you think the customers of this shop came from? I really don't know. Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand already have plenty of beaches & tortoises. There has to be a market for these. Poor people capture and kill them. They sell them to taxidermists who stuff them & sell them to middlemen. Middle men sell them to shop owners. Where do the retail customers come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D For Kate Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 Marcellis, im guessing those stuffed turtles are cheap... if anything they should be giving them away. There is no way anyone could bring it back to America or Europe. simply no demand from informed first-world tourists... oops my bad. China is still second-world and Japan is quasi first-world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 If that shop is in Hanoi - the buyers would be Chinese, I imagine. There are very few Chinese tourists in Saigon. Chinese need a visa to come here. There is no visa required for Chinese to visit Hanoi. So if that shop were in Saigon, the main buyers wouldn't be Chinese. But that reminds me - Taiwanese & Koreans. Saigon is full of Koreans. A lot of Taiwanese here too. I don't know what the largest foreign population is here, probably Korean. But there is a neo-Japanese invasion going on. (Thank God!) There have always been lots of Aussies, Brits, Euros & North Americans here. But I don't know any foreigners who would be interested in buying those turtles though. Vietnamese would eat them & make stuff with them. They would not sell them to each other as souvenirs. Thais, Indonesians, Singaporeans and Malays already have tortoises like that on their beaches. So they wouldn't be the buyers. Maybe that shop is in a beach resort that caters to tourists from the cold parts of the Far East. That would make sense. I still don't know who would be buying them though. Morality aside, they don't look like they'd be very desirable souvenirs. You can buy Cobras in snake wine or *crocodile leather goods. There is some really neat stuff you can buy here. Shiny stuffed tortoises aren't very appealing to me. *I'm getting a guitar strap made from Croc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenbu Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 unfortunately...stuffed turtles are not rare on Yahoo Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnkline Posted July 4, 2007 Members Share Posted July 4, 2007 Someone mentioned ivory saddles, what if you had an old 100 year piano with ivory keys, could you use those to make saddles?? john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted July 5, 2007 Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 Someone mentioned ivory saddles, what if you had an old 100 year piano with ivory keys, could you use those to make saddles??john Yes, if it has solid ivory keys...but I'd check on the law, just to cover yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrainChild Posted July 6, 2007 Members Share Posted July 6, 2007 didi youse know they used to make picks out of unicorn horns? for reals. said to have made the prettiest music played only by gods. look at what happened to those animals now.i dont believe in tooth fairies; neither do i believe in the mystical properties of Brazilian Rosewood and ivory nut and saddle purported by unscrupulous "remember the good ol' days..." marketers. im sorry to be shameful. I couldn't agree more. While some old guitars have aged to perfection many have not. My 99 28 blows away my 67 28 with BR and my $50 TS pick sits in the drawer while I play with a Fender medium. Save the hype for Harry Potter and use what works for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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