zenbu

9202 is not the serial, it is the JIS number and there were two, I think the other was 9204 but I don`t have that info handy right now....the serial should be on the neck block seen through the sound hole, from what I have read, they reached 6 digits in 1960. JIS stands for Japan Industrial Standard, still used today for companies. I have a 120 made of mahogany but have seen them made from flamed maple too. Worth?...depends on the buyer and where you are, in Japan, they don`t sell for a lot of money in fact, riduculously little in many cases. Nice guitars but under appreicated in my opinion.

it`s 6 years older than it was when this thread started.

Yeah I picked up an Artist 300 from 1982 last week and at this site we learned about binding rot...if you haven`t heard about that...like me...then searching the web for that may be useful.

so you know the year and the model number...personally, I am usually pretty happy when I find both of those things...worth is a hard thing to discern, really comes down to how much somebody wants a particular guitar...rarity and/or age often has nothing to do with value particularly for old MIJs and especially outside Japan, one might find more folks interested in an old Gneco in Japan than outside but hey, who would have thought that the 1980s Grecos sell for as much as they do now...nobody thats who otherwise guys paying huge sums for them these days would have loaded up on them 10-15 years ago when they were dirt cheap. Who knows...the market could drop out on them just as easily. Same could be said for old MIA Gibsons and Fenders...those of us who were around in the `70s and `80s would have bought em all had we known what they`d be selling for these days. Guitar markets are controlled by people and people are fickle...whats hot today may not be hot 10 years from now...me, I would rather have more money than more guitars these days, did my buying before the feeding frenzy began and am a very happy player now. There does seem to be a lot of guys buying guitars every week so they can post pics of them on line and get members to comment...almost like a contest. Aw well, whatever makes em happy eh, if thats the way they get their thrills it`s better than shooting or robbing people for kicks.

seen this?... I think we have found the model number... http://goyaguitars.tripod.com/catalog68_16.htm

a donor guitar is something I`ve done before for old MIJ acoustics I have...it`s worked out great and I have a supply of parts.

Careful what you choose to believe at the My Les Paul site, lots of opinions but nothing that seems to come directly from the companies involved, seems to me much of it is guess work though some make it sound like fact it isn`t really backed up by info from the Japanese companies. I had an old Gneco semi hollow that looked like a 335 type, plastic saddles, star tuners...it was pretty nice but I ended up selling it and the guy ho bought it is real happy. There isn`t as much info in the Japan Vintage series of books on the old Grecos as the later stuff. Best I could figure about my old Gneco was early to mid `70s...yours could be from that time or earlier...record keeping did not seem to be a priority back then and little accurate info is available, at least it is hard to find on line and in books I have. It does appear they made the change from Gneco to Greco in the mid `70s but even the Japanese authors who speak the language and have access to info foreigners living thousands of miles away have no idea about can not say for sure just how accurate their data is, so just how guys on the other side of the planet who have never been to Japan to talk to folks who actually worked in the factories or seen the records that do exist can be so certain their info is accurate is a bit of a mystery to me. Fun to read but I don`t go around passing what I see on line as fact. Nice old Gneco, look for catalogs on line that may give you a ball park idea of what model it is and when it was made...but don`t be too disappointed if you can`t pin it down precisely...as the owner of many old MIJs, I have come to accept that.

right...the 25 and 60 are laminate but the 80 may have a solid top...haven`t looked for a while...the 100, 120 and 150 are all solid wood according to books and guitars I have. The Dynamics are all solid but the S series Dynamics...S-50 and S-70 were all laminates...easy to tell apart...the Dynamics have Yamaha Dynamic on the front of the headstock, the S series do not say Dynamic on the headstock they just have Yamaha, and of course the labels inside are different.

not really looking for a No. 25, have passed on the chance to bid on several on line here in Japan...not all that impressed with the No.60 or No. 80 that were higher end models, my favorites are the sold wood models. Plus, I wouldn`t buy a guitar from somebody with one post, no offense, and I don`t know where you are located anyways. There were a couple of # 8 models on line here recently, one with a starting bid of $700.00...they are more rare than other models...and another that went for about half of that. The 8 and 80 were sister models, very much the same only the white/red label came later. The inlays around the top are very very thin, if they are like my 1950 Kiso Suzuki...and come off real easily, and the inlay is what I don`t like about those two models. My #40s are pretty much the same minus the inlays.

http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/catalog.html original catalog... http://www.oldguitar.jp/catalog/yamaha/ETC/YAMAHA%20GUITAR%20UKULELE(66.11)_0003.jpg

http://rara.jp/mmasm/

I have three of the No. 100s and I can tell you exactly how much I paid for each of em, I keep a record of that stuff... serial # 537149 cost me...$24.00 " " 593789 cost me...$10.00...not a typo " " 656648 cost me...$31.00 so as you can see it`s almost criminal how little these all solid wood models go for, I mean if you can find a 1960s solid maple back and sides with a solid Ezo spruce top for less then I recommend you go for it...I can`t. I love mine, the Japan Vintage vol. 1 says these were made by the top luthiers of the day, but they ain`t perfect...I see glue inside but hey for the price...not to mention the mojo...I certainly will not complain. As far as I can tell Yamaha hit 6 digit serials in 1960 and these early classicals were made between 1960 and 1966/67 when Yamaha opened their first factory...evidently all earlier Yamahas were made for them by some other factory...with Suzuki getting mentioned a lot over here, and it makes sense since they were set up for it and had been building nylon strings since at least 1948 `cause I have one, and I bet they were making them before that. Seems the JIS symbol on the headstock where the truss rod cover would be first appeared in `63 so...without that JIS...between 1960 and `63...with the JIS between `63 and `66/67. So look, if the lady is well off and doesn`t need the money offer less...if she looks like she could use it, why not offer her $100.00...hard to say for sure, I`d wager they are rarer overseas...not sure where you are located... but they show up somewhat regularly on line in Japan, and they never fetch more than a couple of hundred for ones in excellent condition. So.....between $10.00 and $200.00 is what I`ve seen. I have to always take the tuners off, take them apart and let them soak for an hour or so in a bathroom tile cleaner we have here, placed in a plastic peanut butter jar and swirled around a couple of times...works great...won`t remove the rust but cleans the gears right up...they look like brass after...before they are just black...and I use a string winder when I tune the guitar up...distributes the pressure better...I`ve already broken a button on one I had and find the string winder works great...finding 32mm tuners is not easy here. In my case I prefer the No.100, 120 and 150 models from that series...all three are solid wood...maple, mahogany and rosewood respectively...the No. 25, 60 and 80 are partially laminate or completely laminate. Keep me posted on what happens with the guitar, there are so few of us who own them I sometimes feel like nobody believes me when I gush about them...and I should stop now `cause regular members have heard this all before.

my $80.oo Aria Leopard from 1981...which was in the junk section...see the pawn shop moron thread...

a few years ago people were saying that Tokai, Greco, Bacchus, Van Zandt, Seymour Duncan...to name but a few...were obscure too, a look around the net will show how popular they are now, the web has changed everything, unfortunately...getting harder all the time finding great deals on those names above like I used to. Still...if it`s just gotta be a Fender...hopefully one MIA , then I`m not going to try to convince you otherwise, not like there aren`t more than enough people after the best MIJs already. Cross your fingers a wood knot won`t start poking through the body finish if you buy a F/USA team built custom shop strat like mine has...and used is the only way to go for me now, learned my lesson a long time ago. Last time I bought a new Van Zandt was because it was 50% off list during a local sale...they go for more used these days, and am I correct in assuming you`ve never seen nor played a Van Zandt?

in all the years I`ve been buying Fender Japans here, I`ve never seen nor heard of them calling any models reissues...F/USA makes those. FJs may or may not be based on USA models but they not always replicas, plus shops can order them to any specs they want. Fender Japan also builds them in various price points...they can not all be lumped into one or two catagories...if you buy a low end model thats what you get...same goes for MIJs in general, there are so many builders around now...some very high end makers others not so much, really depends. When it comes to mine, my best MIJs are not Fenders...and that statement above about the 80s and 90s models having cheap electronics contradicts the guitars I own...it`s the new stuff that comes...for the most part, there are exceptions...with the plastic switch and tiny pots, all my `80s and `90s FJ have full size pots and steel switches. Right now the best deal on used MIJ strats I have access to are the Edwards...the best MIJ? no, but price wise the best bargains...the tone bursts I see have 2 piece center seamed bodies....most FJs do not...again there are exceptions...but the Edwards strat I have is outstanding for the $400.oo I paid, and there are other Japanese builders I`d buy...and have bought... before buying a F/USA I see hanging in local shops, my Van Zandts and Seymour Duncans stand up to any F/USA custom shop guitar around these parts. So if you see a FJ thats interests you try to get some pics of the neck pocket and post em so members can have a look at what it might be...lots of people seem to think everything MIJ is great, it isn`t...ya gotta be careful `cause some sellers think the same thing.

bien merci cocotte...un autre...

no... wish it was! I spend a lot of my time illustrating. this type of stuff is huge in Japan as you probably already know.

no...

he doesn`t say and I`m not going through my catalogs again, he has more pics here... http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/l751587/lst?.dir=/abd9&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.co.jp/

well, I`m wrong about the single coil neck position being the Lite...heres a Fernendes on line that has a H-S-H configuration and the seller says it`s a Lite... ?http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h132586570

I`m speaking of the city I live in, hardly think I`m in a position to speak for the entire country...up here MIAs are what players seem to want...and they have a vast choice. We do have an ESP branch guitar shop...but it`s mostly heavy metal stuff, and everything absolutely reeks of cigarette smoke in there. They don`t carry used gear and thats all I`m interested in so no point in going there, when I do it`s just for catalogs...refuse to pay retail for any guitars anymore.

in this Japanese city, Fernandes are not popular at all...neither are the MIJ Fenders, nor the Edwards...nor most MIJs actually...players here are willing to pay just about anything for MIAs...and do. One reason why I get em for such little money. I have seen Fernandes guitars in that gray color...and if I`m not mistaken the Lite part is because it doesn`t have a bucker in the neck position, I`d have to check but I think thats right. In the late `90s early `00s...there was no mention as to where guitars were made in my catalogs, either it was assumed it was Japan or people didn`t care...come to think of it, I`ve never heard locals talking about where the Edwards/Duncans are actually made...China/Korea or Japan like so many threads in guitar sites I visit, as far as I can tell nobody gives a rats butt about it and they leave them hanging in used gear shops for ages before I have to step in to buy them.

yes...a Sustainer Lite model as opposed to a full on Sustainer version.

the model in question in my 2000 catalog is actually listed as...FR-65S `98...see if that brings something different up from the web. The Floyd model is listed as the FGZ-650S `98... But theres a really big pic of the guitar in red on page 20 and it has the Wilkinson bridge...and is listed as the FR-65S `99...in the older catalogs they don`t mantion MIJ, MIK or MIC...later catalogs do...just got the `09 today and see only two models that say made in Japan...the RLG-85 and the RLC-85 so i assume everything else is not MIJ.

in my catalogs , it appears to be the FR-65S...65,ooo retail...not high end. in 1999 and 2000 it`s listed as basswood...in 1997, soft maple. Also came with the locking system. Looks like by 2001, it was replaced by a model with a foto flame top...FGZ-550S in alder and locking system. I`ve probably got other catalogs areound but this is after a quick look at those that were handy.