Members kwakatak Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Probably gonna need a new top: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Queequeg Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Whad you do, Kwak,leave it in your car?Bummer, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Oh {censored}. Is that your D-16? That sucks. Sorry, man...seriously. How'd that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted June 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Nah-it's my Tak. I did it myself and one purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Wha....? Just for {censored}s and giggles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bridgepin Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 OUCH Dr.Kwakatak to the emergency room STAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Needs a neck reset, but the wood you took off under the bridge shouldn't be a huge problem. Apparently happens a lot in bridge-ectomies. I haven't tried it myself yet, but the goal is to make both surfaces flat again. Chisel the frags off the bridge. Chisel out a rectangular area of the top, and make a spruce patch. The mystery to me was how to make the patch. Apparently, you start by thinning a chunk of spruce with a plane and a shooting board. Leave the patch a little thick when you glue it to the top. Then plane/chisel it flush with the top once it's glued on and set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 I would fill it in with a little wood filler and skip the patch method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 The bridge has to hold fast to the top. Wood putty / filler isn't used because it would fail under tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickoshea Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 or flatten out the base of the bridge area. As long as you have a decent amount of soundboard thickness you could make a new, taller bridge, then effectively inlay it into the soundboard to give you adequate height for the saddle after the neck is reset to a decent angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 The bridge has to hold fast to the top. Wood putty / filler isn't used because it would fail under tension. I did not suggest using wood putty. I would use an epoxy based wood filler. They are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted June 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Calm, everyone. Part of me wants to replace the top and it needs a neck reset anyway. If not then I have to reglue the X brace underneath the treble side bridge wing and then do a glue patch to reattach the pieces of the chipped upper ply. For now I need to measure the bridge to find or fashion an acceptable replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members totamus Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Probably the most critical joint in the guitar for sound is the bond that passes the saddle vibrations to the soundboard. I definitely would not use a filler paste/putty! That is an interesting project though, keep the pics and progress coming! I see the upward bulge of the soundboard in relation to your straightedge. How ya gonna fix that? Or do you leave it and simply accommodate it with the neck reset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 I did not suggest using wood putty. I would use an epoxy based wood filler. They are not the same thing. I'm just telling you what little I know. The bridge is under 150+ lbs of tension. The only thing that can withstand that kind of tension long-term is long-grain to long-grain surfaces for gluing. Replacing the top would be a big project. At that point, I'd be thinking of building a new guitar from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted June 19, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 Don't know, totamus. That's the point of separation on the treble-side X brace. I was considering on doing this: http://w.acousticguitar.com/article/default.aspx?articleid=25565&page=2 ...that's be a ways off though. Either that or buy a replacement guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 I get the sense that this isn't as bad as it looks. Replacing a top would be - for me, anyway, a WAY last resort. It'd be so much frickin' work, I'd be more inclined to just make a new git altogether. Overall, your Tak still looks pretty good considering its age. It'd be a shame to Frankenstein it with a new top unless you really dislike the current one. But I don't think you need to go there. I was watching a bridge vid made by John Hall of Blues Creek Guitars (I'll post it at the bottom here if I can find it) in which as a matter of usual practice he actually routes a recess into his top, into which he fits much of the body of the bridge. Seems to me like a pretty sensible practice, and what you appear to have on your Tak now is just kind of a much more dramatic version of that. I don't think I would mess with wood filler or bondo or any of that stuff. What I might try is cleaning out the recess you've got as well as possible, and then if necessary (it may not be) I'd Titebond in a spruce shim to get it level. Edit: Here's the Blues Creek Vid. It's "Part 2." Part 1 is worth watching as well, IMHO. [video=youtube;P2-kXK_Nt38] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 A neck reset is going to be more work than the bridge fix. If you want to learn the skills, it's worth giving it a shot. If not, make it a planter and get a new guitar. FWIW, I tried a neck reset recently. Reshaping the dovetail to get the right neck angle is a HUGE PITA. HUGE! Basically trial and error shaping and fitting with six degrees of freedom. Brain surgery is easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 That guitar is a perfect medical lab cadaver. Time to try your hand at a neck reset, brace repair, and bridge replacement, and finally, if all else fails, El Kabong something. BTW, listen to Totamus. Don't even think about putty. Save every little piece of wood, carefully remove old glue, and glue it all back together with Titebond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted June 20, 2011 Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 Cool! You blew its pecker off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted June 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thanks, knock. I've actually been in touch with John Hall about this. His video on the "cold chisel" method is what inspired me to do this. Sure, I messed it up but that's because I used a paint scraper to try and break the glue joint in the middle of the bridge rather than just keep tapping around the edges with the 3/4" chisel I had been using up to that point. Here's what I'm thinking of doing: - heat the bridge enough to melt the remaining chipped spruce from the underside.- glue the chips back to the top using Titebond, some wax paper and wood cauls. I'll pick up some deep throat clamps from Harbor Freight. I'll need them later anyway. - then I'll try and glue that X brace back down. I have a feeling that that's not gonna be easy but once accomplished hopefully it will settle that belly that the JLD couldn't.- meanwhile I'm going to measure the bridge tonight and see how close it is in dimensions to the Martin bridges that are available at LMI.If it matches, I'll order a new one along with some other stuff for my build to save on shipping costs. If not, then I'll order a rosewood blank and use the bridge as a template. - once I have a new bridge installed, then I'll check that neck angle. It was actually pretty good after a repair I paid to have done about 8 years ago. The real issue is the cracked bridge and loose brace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted June 20, 2011 Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 Kwak, is it a crazy idea if I think that you might make an attempt at making a brand new top for your Tak??? You want to build a whole guitar, wouldn't it be a good idea to practice on your Tak, before!! ??? Anyway, we all know that you love this guitar. I think that most of us would have give up on it a long time ago but you just don't... So, why don't you fix it and build a new top for it. It will keep it special for a long time again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted June 20, 2011 Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 It will keep it special for a long time again!! So would turning it into a planter. And it would look so pretty with flowers growing out of the sound hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted June 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 The way I see it, Misha, it's a win/win. If I can fix the existing top then it will be whole again and I will have learned something to use toward building guitars. If not, then I have to take the guitar completely apart. For now I need to finish the guitar I've started though because it may be easier to learn by doing it from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted June 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 Wow, I just learned something else. I just pulled the guitar out in order to measure the bridge to see if I could get a replacement and out of curiosity I pushed down on the top right at the highest point of the hump - which is where the bridge sat. It creaked. Huh? So I reached inside and held the X-brace beneath as I pushed down again... ...and I felt the crack that runs the length of the brace from the lap joint to the bridge wing open up. Yup, the brace is literally broken. This changes things considerably; the repair will no be as easy as I was beginning to hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted June 20, 2011 Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 That actually sounds like good news to me. It could mean the belly is due to that cracked brace. Get some glue into the crack and clamp, ideally with a caul that helps the top conform to the shape you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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