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Anyone tried Bigrock Engineerings Power Pins , bridge pin replacement system,yet?

allen230

By allen230
in Acoustic Guitars

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JoeJazz Newbie

JoeJazz

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I like people that sometimes think 'out of the box' but the "reverence for the inherently flawed, pinned bridge design" statement you made will not bid well for any acoustic guitar forum whatever your logic may be.  Leave that statement out of your advertising and maybe there's a niche out there for you albeit a small one. 

Marketing Thought:  Remember to always sell your product as an alternative and refrain from calling the status quo inadequate.  It also helps to market a new product as 'an experience'.  

What are my qualifications for sharing all this marketing genius?  I've just eaten 6 Krispy Kreme glazed donuts (yep 6) and with that much sugar I'm currently a genius on any subject.  Does anyone have any ideas what I'm going to tell my wife.  We don't have a dog.

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JT Foote Newbie

JT Foote

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After doing some research, I see some issues with this product that need to be addressed.

 

1.) People complaining about the action being raised after the installation. Either from the strings being pulled at an angle by the pins, a thick bridge, or because of bridge rotation. Many lightly braced guitars have a certain amount of belly that rotates the bridge towards the sound hole. This is to be expected, and actually a desirable aspect. The power pins rest on top of the rear section of the bridge, so the strings pass over the saddle at a higher point, reducing break angle. If the guitar being altered has a low saddle, this could be enough so that the strings slip on the saddle top.

 

2.) The pins are installed using metal screws and washers. I can foresee where it might easily be possible to apply too much torque during the installation, and crushing, cracking, or splitting the bridgeplate. Even if the screws are only hand-tightened, it could be difficult to judge how much is too much. And if the screws slip at some point, what's to stop a pin from flying off and a string coming loose?

 

3.) Metal is not a good material for transmitting energy from the strings to the bridgeplate, as illustrated by the old metal adjustable bridges on Yamaha and Gibson guitars in years past, regardless if it is steel or aluminum. These pins must convey that energy to the guitar from the saddle, and the metal screws attached to the bridge plate ... instead of the ball ends of the strings being locked against the bridgeplate. This seems inefficient to me. A slotted bridge and non-slotted pins seem to be the better solution, with greater string contact with the bridgeplate. This method would also cause little damage to the bridgeplate over the years.

 

4.) Examples I have heard online invariably show a loss of resonance and bass with the use of these pins. This gives the sound of the guitar more "cut", and the brighter trebles have a more metallic tonality. Those mostly amateur musicians who posted testimonial videos might translate this as increased volume and clarity, due to the frequencies that are enhanced or that "stand out" more, because of that same lack of warmth and bass resonance. But to the listener out front, this may not be perceived as an improvement in tone, especially coming from a guitar that previously was well-balanced.

 

5.) The manufacturer claims that increased "compression" from the application of these pins offsets the increased weight on the bridge. A set of these pins, along with washers, can weigh as much as 30 grams. That's not an insignificant amount of weight to apply to the bridge, which is a brace, one that just happens to be on the outside of the instrument. It is impossible for this to NOT have an effect on the sound of the guitar, even if the manufacturer seems to prefer that it become a non-issue in discussions, and finds it "tiring" that people keep bringing it up.

 

6.) The manufacturer also has stated that he and his company make no claims of better tone, or increased volume ... that this is only a system for quicker, easier string changes (and to protect the bridgeplate) ... although this has been definitely implied, over and over, after reading many posts by said manufacturer. The manufacturer also states that these tonal change "improvements" are entirely based on comments made by users of the pins, and is quick to point this out, and direct possible buyers to the company website to read testimonials and watch videos. Questions asked about any of the above points receive answers that are at best evasive, and at the worst, rude, condescending and/or argumentative. The manufacturer has made many disgruntled posts about players not being willing to accept change, of being too willing to listen to supposedly empty or non-experienced opinions that might oppose or invalidate his own, and of people refusing to browse the company website in order to make a valid judgement without being influenced by other people, as opposed to himself. The seller. Apparently, you either must be willing to buy a set and use them to have a real opinion or an intelligent set of questions, or you're just a hide-bound, stogy person, unwilling to accept change.

 

Based on these kind of posts, I'd have to advise the manufacturer to find someone professionally trained to promote his product, and to try and resist the urge to do this on his own.

 

These are the issues I have with these pins, based on the information that is available. I suggest doing your homework before making a purchase, and judging for yourself.

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ac2300 Newbie

ac2300

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You know JT, you make this big deal about these pins, like its a some kind of disaster, that if you buy them watch out!! , and its really quite simple, we offer a no questions asked money back guarantee . With thousands of sets out in the field, and none of the bridge plate splitting,etc, etc being reported, we know , that you dont know what youre talking about. You say our answers are evasive, about tone and volume improvements. i beg to differ, we werent promoting those aspects , at that time. However, guess what!! we are now promoting those improvements, and its due to the huge number of players who have bought them, recorded them and shared their comments, despite what you or others like you ,that havent actually tried them say. I know ,i know, these are inexperienced players, that you seem to look down on, people whos educated( actual use) opinion means nothing to you, your theories are all that matter. Lets face it, youve had it in for this product from the beginning, i guess it threatens you, or your livelihood or something, who knows? Your dire warnings about Power Pins, are totally without merit, and when you say "These are the issues I have with these pins, based on the information that is available. I suggest doing your homework before making a purchase, and judging for yourself. " I beg to differ again, the real information is available, with a Moneyback guarantee, so you can judge for yourself,do you have a problem with that?

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ac2300 Newbie

ac2300

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Jt , Ill bet this will really drive you nuts smile.png. No seriously, does this freak you out as much as the 6 string model, or do you see the benefit in the easy string changing ? This is our proof of concept prototype, glued, so it wont take the tension. We will have pre production samples shortly, just to keep you up to date, you know what though,youre too serious man, you should pick up that guitar more often and relax!

195f07a2fcfcd2fd52e3a2f06a60b3ba.thumb.png.357e31d216348ebda76ad25ab9ff47a7.png

5b178aeee07398af17d233e411f66fab.png.3da80d5c76faaf6a971e3127355e88a7.png

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ac2300 Newbie

ac2300

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Ever lost a bridge pin on a dark stage,and you dont have spares, or wait a minute, maybe the ball end doesnt seat properly, and you have to keep tuning , and retuning? Also have you ever swapped a 12 string out? They will be expensive though :)

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Idunno Newbie

Idunno

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Okay, I still say dumb idea. It's all in the physics (engineering 101).

 

The devices place a torsional loading on the bridge. This torsional moment (twisting) can very easily open a crack linearly through the bridge pin holes along that common grain line. This has already occurred with the so-called Bridge Doctor produced some years ago that employed the use of similar through-hole nut-secured brass pins.

 

Bridge Doctor pin retention: The pins had protruding heads with holes drilled 90 degrees through them that routed the strings across the saddle. The holes were located such that the ball end would have sufficient clearance atop the bridge to prevent damage when it nested against the pin under tension. But, the brass pins did not seat exactly as the maker designed them to because he did not take into account the varying pin hole diameters across various brand guitars. Thus, the brass pins sat lower in many of the bridges they were fitted to, which brought the string hole closer to the bridge top, and the string ball ends actually did gouge the top of the bridge when tension was applied.

 

Note: The above torsional loading moment these new (BEP) devices impose are new forces normal bridge pins do not impart on the bridge. Under the normal pin fitment, the total force has two load vectors. One is a 90 degree vector which pulls against the bridge plate and upwards through the bridge to the saddle. The second vector pulls towards the nut across the top of the saddle. These two separate vectors share the load (effectively a single pulley system) with zero twisting moment borne by the grain boundaries of the saddle. These new BEP pins with their entire single vector load place all of the load into a twisting moment across the grain boundaries of the saddle at their weakest point.

 

Bridge Doctor - With the 6 brass pins of the Bridge Doctor securely fitted with their respective nuts (like the BEP pins), the pinch on each was different because no installer used a torque wrench or driver to assure the proper torque on each nut was identical. This placed uneven compression loads across the top of the bridge at each pin hole. This meant that some pins were allowed greater torsional movement (twist from being pulled towards the nut by the string) causing localized loadings where one pin would initiate the crack and it would propagate from there to the other holes. This happened on two guitars I installed a Bridge Doctor in within a year of installation. Does this mean that the devices were altogether bad? Yes in the sense that the damage to the bridge together with overall tonal losses from lack of adequate break angle rendered the device a belly straightener only. That alone could not restore the playability its designer claimed.

 

Tonal losses - Gonna have to agree with the JT claims on this. The "across-the-top" placement of the string relative to the top of the saddle significantly reduces the string load moment onto the top of the guitar where it needs to be for best imparting of the string vibrations. The Bridge Doctor's placement is identical, if not lower, than these new pins. With the Bridge Doctor I lost the tonal qualities of a Guild F-412 I put the device into. One of the high E strings didn't touch the saddle at all unless I counter-bored the top of the bridge at that pin hole effectively placing the brass pin lower.

 

About market feedback claims -

 

Most of the web-speak on guitars is in the form of noob-speak. I've been on these forums since their inception and 99% of the talk-load is exactly that. The real experienced players who have it in their hands and ears, who actively participate on theses forums, can almost be counted on one's hands alone. If I had to regurgitate how many times I've read where this $200.00 guitar is as good or better than that $2000.000 guitar I'd be bent over for months and never dry heave once. They simply do not have what it takes to make an objective assessment of these BEP pins.

 

Last item - How much more ease do these devices really give? How hard is it to remove a conventional bridge pin and replace it?

 

Final Note: Considering the forgoing, these pins were not designed by a guitar player of any significant experience, if a player at all.

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