Members alcohol Posted November 10, 2006 Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 I haven't had the experience you all have had with so many mics, but I really like my Shure KSM32, around $500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anna Log Posted November 12, 2006 Members Share Posted November 12, 2006 Originally posted by Han I have rented two 414's a while ago, didn't like them at all. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 13, 2006 Members Share Posted November 13, 2006 I actually don't know what's strange about someone not liking 414, as I have met numerous engineers throughout the years who regarded it as "harsh". I've heard some that sound too "harsh" for my liking (a noticeable bump in the upper mids that I found distasteful), and others that sounded full, so I realize that between all the various models of 414s, there is a fair amount of variance. Also, uses and tastes vary, and there are a lot of other good mics out there that one might prefer, especially given the variance in 414s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I was The Funk Posted November 13, 2006 Members Share Posted November 13, 2006 I don't like 414's on mandolins.......when earthworks are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted November 14, 2006 Members Share Posted November 14, 2006 Originally posted by I was The Funk I don't like 414's on mandolins.......when earthworks are available. You use an omni on a mandolin? Is the band recording at the same time in the same room or is everyone isolated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Han Posted November 14, 2006 Members Share Posted November 14, 2006 Kind of funny is that engineers think that omni's are not usable in a situation of recording a band together in one room. You'll have spill with any microphone, a hyper cardioid will pick up other instruments as well and the question is how that bleed will sound. I don't have problems with bleed as long as it sounds good. But there is one huge benefit with omni's, there's no proximity. So if you put an omni under the tailpiece of an upright bass, you will have a little more bleed, just slightly more than with a cardioid, but you won't have that nasty boom that you'll have with most cardioids. Omni's can be the best choice in some applications, really.Gobo's can be much of a help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted November 15, 2006 Members Share Posted November 15, 2006 Originally posted by Han Kind of funny is that engineers think that omni's are not usable in a situation of recording a band together in one room.You'll have spill with any microphone, a hyper cardioid will pick up other instruments as well and the question is how that bleed will sound.I don't have problems with bleed as long as it sounds good.But there is one huge benefit with omni's, there's no proximity. So if you put an omni under the tailpiece of an upright bass, you will have a little more bleed, just slightly more than with a cardioid, but you won't have that nasty boom that you'll have with most cardioids.Omni's can be the best choice in some applications, really.Gobo's can be much of a help. I appreciate that info. I wasn't sure about using omni mics in a live room with the whole band playing at the same time, but then again, I don't own any omni's.. The only time I would put a mic under the tailpiece of an upright bass would be when running sound at a festival, and my mic or choice for that duty is the venerable SM58. Frequently the bassist will ask for bass in the monitors and I would think an omni would create problems. I have tried micing the bass with an LD on a stand and it has given me fits whenever monitors are required. I always use a a LD on the upright bass in the studio. With gobo's. But even my unidirectional SM81 had too much bleed for my taste on our last session. I was close micing a Martin guitar and picking up the fiddle, which was ten feet away, almost as loud as the guitar. That is too much bleed for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted November 15, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 15, 2006 Originally posted by Han You'll have spill with any microphone, a hyper cardioid will pick up other instruments as well and the question is how that bleed will sound. Agreed. But the additional variable is... how loud is the bleed? Sometimes you need that directional pattern. Sometimes the excellent sounding bleed is perfect. I say use an omni when you can, and that's far more frequently than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 15, 2006 Members Share Posted November 15, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Knight . I say use an omni when you can, and that's far more frequently than you think. You gave a great suggestion on how to use an omni in the thread I started about the Avenson ST0-2 omnis. I use omnis for kick drum mics (no proximity effect), room mics, overheads, vocals, and sometimes acoustic guitars. Really useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anna Log Posted November 15, 2006 Members Share Posted November 15, 2006 Originally posted by Han Kind of funny is that engineers think that omni's are not usable in a situation of recording a band together in one room.You'll have spill with any microphone, a hyper cardioid will pick up other instruments as well and the question is how that bleed will sound.I don't have problems with bleed as long as it sounds good.But there is one huge benefit with omni's, there's no proximity. So if you put an omni under the tailpiece of an upright bass, you will have a little more bleed, just slightly more than with a cardioid, but you won't have that nasty boom that you'll have with most cardioids.Omni's can be the best choice in some applications, really.Gobo's can be much of a help. I think it is funny how egos have so much to do with getting the right sound.People are listening for the wrong reasons. It is the music that matters, everything else is secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 15, 2006 Members Share Posted November 15, 2006 Originally posted by Anna Log I think it is funny how egos have so much to do with getting the right sound.People are listening for the wrong reasons.It is the music that matters, everything else is secondary. Out of curiosity, why do you feel that egos have something to do with the polar patterns chosen? I'm not being defensive or caustic or anything else - I genuinely want to know why you feel this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Han Posted November 15, 2006 Members Share Posted November 15, 2006 Originally posted by Anna Log I think it is funny how egos have so much to do with getting the right sound. People are listening for the wrong reasons. It is the music that matters, everything else is secondary. Absolutely right, music first! But in the mean time, the most difficult part of engineering is getting to know your microphones, know what they are good at and what they're not so good at. I've never been following advice blindly, but I have found it out the hard way. I've been experimenting two full days with microphones and placements on the grand piano in order to find out what's the relation between mic, placement and sound, because most piano recordings don't sound very good. @GZsound: Recording a violin or an acoustic guitar with a microphone near a loud drummer is almost impossible for example. And maybe this microphone that doesn't sound best on the violin or acoustic is still a better choice because the bleed sounds better due to it's nicer off axis response. An acoustic bass can be a real pain in the ass, I know all about it and an omni will get more bleed, but less proximity, like I said in my earlier post. A friend of mine is an upright player and he comes every week for rehearsing with his (jazz)band, which has given me the opportunity to experiment with every mic I have and every placement for many hours. I simply put a mic somewhere and go to the CR and listen. This has pointed me to some weird results. An SM57 wrapped in foam in the bridge sounds like poop for example. But listen: the much more expensive Sennheiser MD441 (a really great mic) wrapped in foam in the bridge of an upright sounds even worse than the 57 and so does the MD421. An el cheapo AKG D90 sounds a whole lot better in this application and a $25 Audio Technica AT832 sounds even good this way. And now you wanna know what sounds best in the bridge of an upright? An earthworks omni and as for dynamics the Beyer M88 and the Sennheiser MD416. But the best sound you can get is with a really nice LDC at some distance of the instrument (it's big) so you got to get the player in a booth, what he will absolutely hate and you'll never see him coming back. So you better put that M88 (or the Earthworks) in the bridge and hope he's a loud player. Forget about the pickup and the amp, that will only get him to play softer. I started a topic at gearslutz a while ago that may be interesting for ya: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=64710&highlight=upright+bass Bottom line: music first, but get to know your microphones. A very expensive mic can suck big time and a cheap one can shine on some applications. Peace, Han Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted November 16, 2006 Members Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Out of curiosity, why do you feel that egos have something to do with the polar patterns chosen? I'm not being defensive or caustic or anything else - I genuinely want to know why you feel this way. I am sort of wondering that also.. What does ego have to do with not using a certain piece of equipment if it sounds best? I have no ego involved in not using omni mics in my recording sessions... I have no omni's. I have been concerned about using omni mic's and even figure eight ribbons because so many of my sessions are of acoustic bands in the same room and since it's a lot of bluegrass, I have to deal with banjo, which is loud, and fiddle which also bleeds a bunch and have had better luck with tighter pattern microphones then the unidirectional mics, like the SM81 that I do have. But.. the ego in picking mics? Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted November 16, 2006 Members Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by Han Absolutely right, music first! But in the mean time, the most difficult part of engineering is getting to know your microphones, know what they are good at and what they're not so good at. I've never been following advice blindly, but I have found it out the hard way. I've been experimenting two full days with microphones and placements on the grand piano in order to find out what's the relation between mic, placement and sound, because most piano recordings don't sound very good. @GZsound: Recording a violin or an acoustic guitar with a microphone near a loud drummer is almost impossible for example. And maybe this microphone that doesn't sound best on the violin or acoustic is still a better choice because the bleed sounds better due to it's nicer off axis response. An acoustic bass can be a real pain in the ass, I know all about it and an omni will get more bleed, but less proximity, like I said in my earlier post. A friend of mine is an upright player and he comes every week for rehearsing with his (jazz)band, which has given me the opportunity to experiment with every mic I have and every placement for many hours. I simply put a mic somewhere and go to the CR and listen. This has pointed me to some weird results. An SM57 wrapped in foam in the bridge sounds like poop for example. But listen: the much more expensive Sennheiser MD441 (a really great mic) wrapped in foam in the bridge of an upright sounds even worse than the 57 and so does the MD421. An el cheapo AKG D90 sounds a whole lot better in this application and a $25 Audio Technica AT832 sounds even good this way. And now you wanna know what sounds best in the bridge of an upright? An earthworks omni and as for dynamics the Beyer M88 and the Sennheiser MD416. But the best sound you can get is with a really nice LDC at some distance of the instrument (it's big) so you got to get the player in a booth, what he will absolutely hate and you'll never see him coming back. So you better put that M88 (or the Earthworks) in the bridge and hope he's a loud player. Forget about the pickup and the amp, that will only get him to play softer. I started a topic at gearslutz a while ago that may be interesting for ya: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=64710&highlight=upright+bass Bottom line: music first, but get to know your microphones. A very expensive mic can suck big time and a cheap one can shine on some applications. Peace, Han Thanks for the information. I also get to experiment with upright bass since my wife has been playing in bluegrass bands for over 20 years. I attended a couple of recording workshops with Todd Phillips a fairly well known national bluegrass bass player and Edgar Meyer who is...well.. look him up. Anyway, they both use an LD about a foot in front of the bass near the "F" hole and a small condenser up the neck when in the studio. When playing live they both use a pickup. I agree with you about the 57 and the 421. I have also had poor luck with the EV swivel head mic..whatever the number. But at festivals, they have band scrambles where a put together band comes on stage and plays three songs.. then another, then another..etc. and I get the best most consistant sound with a SM58 "stuff" mic. Just my experience over the last ten years.. I don't have any omni's, but I might buy one of the Behringer reference onmi's just to give it a try on the upright..before blowing some serious money. Thankfully, for our current CD project, my wife is playing her new uprght Emminence bass which has to be recorded from the pickup so I record it direct. It also solves a BUNCH of bleed problems. I appreciate the advice. But a single LD like a 4047 a foot in front of the bass can sound wonderful without getting too much bleed from the other instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 16, 2006 Members Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by GZsound I don't have any omni's, but I might buy one of the Behringer reference onmi's just to give it a try on the upright..before blowing some serious money. I just purchased the Avenson ST0-2 omnis and am really enjoying them so far. They're $550 for the pair and sound very very good. Check out the thread elsewhere in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Warhead Posted November 16, 2006 Members Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by GZsound I think I am going to get one of those this month. I need a good LD mic I can take to live sound gigs that won't break the bank if it gets dropped, rained on, etc. And the M179 just looks like a good deal. That said, how come most of the M179's don't come with a shock mount, while there are package deals for the mic new from Ebay sellers that have the shock mount and pop screen included? The lack of a shock mount seems to be a common problem with the mic since it has such good low end pickup. Warren, know any retailers that have the mic, shockmount and pop screen deal? (clears throat).. Two weeks, ready to buy. I was going to get it this week, but I just scored an AT 4047 for $300. Well, we have been selling the M179 on our site with the MZM-5 shock mount, pop filter and a cable for months now, essentially as a package. Sorry for the delayed response, you may know this by now if you checked us out on it. EDIT: Thanks, I see you did find us!!! War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halljams Posted November 16, 2006 Members Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by Han I have rented two 414's a while ago, didn't like them at all.Sorry. I have a couple 414b-uls's and they are good mikes. Not for everything though. I really like them for overheads.Something else i like about them is that they have a very distinct mid range growl thing, and they pick up transients nicely.They are bit claustraphobic for vocals i find but the midrange character really comes through on vocals too so....Great pattern choices and pads too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zinzin Posted November 29, 2006 Members Share Posted November 29, 2006 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe Limiting myself only to your suggestions, I would recommend the MXL V67i, due to its flexibility. I'd forget about the V67g; it's not going to be my choice - not when the V67i gives you the same sound plus an additional "flavor". Here's a link to the V67i review I did recently in EQ Magazine. great review. i own the mic and can only confirm what you wrote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anna Log Posted November 29, 2006 Members Share Posted November 29, 2006 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Out of curiosity, why do you feel that egos have something to do with the polar patterns chosen? I'm not being defensive or caustic or anything else - I genuinely want to know why you feel this way. ...or anything else... You missed my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Adjoted09 Posted December 2, 2006 Members Share Posted December 2, 2006 wow! I'm a loser! regards, Adjoted09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted December 2, 2006 Members Share Posted December 2, 2006 In that price range I can vouch for the Studio Projects B1, or spend a little more and get the B3 which is multi-pattern. Also keep in mind that you will need a preamp or mixer that supplies phantom power in order to use any of these LDCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 3, 2006 Members Share Posted December 3, 2006 Originally posted by Anna Log ...or anything else...You missed my point. Well, yes, that's why I'm asking. Please elaborate. I'm truly not bustin' on you, I was just curious. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anna Log Posted December 3, 2006 Members Share Posted December 3, 2006 Kind of funny is that engineers think that omni's are not usable in a situation of recording a band together in one room. It was a knee jerk reaction to this quote... I was being a smart ass....er, dumb ass, however you want to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted December 11, 2006 Members Share Posted December 11, 2006 Originally posted by Warhead Well, we have been selling the M179 on our site with the MZM-5 shock mount, pop filter and a cable for months now, essentially as a package. Sorry for the delayed response, you may know this by now if you checked us out on it.EDIT: Thanks, I see you did find us!!!War Warren, Found you, bought the mic and now looking forward to getting two more in the near future. Great mic, great service.. Only one little problem is that I can't plug any microphone connector into the mic except a Switchcraft. My Neutriks won't fit, my other brands won't fit.. Pretty interesting. The connector is really tight.. I solved the problem with my handy dandy Dremmel tool and a thin diamond cutting bit. But... what a great deal. thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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