Thank you Bruce

[audioicon]

When my AIDS post was deleted, I was not happy, I expressed my feeling to Craig in an opened letter, I then braced for the attacks from the people who felt I had no right to do that. Well I'm still in here, I still respect Craig and everyone in here as I did from the very start.

This is a forum and opinion can be very hurtful or constructive. I'm not pleased that Bruce left, I did not get the chance to listen to the MP3 or read the post from people classified as trolls.

I'm very sure Bruce will return but there will always be people who will disagree with you and the things you do.

Bruce has created a foundation that will live forever and no post or thread is going to change that!

Audioicon

[audioicon]

I used to be the same way, but 12 years of SSS have somewhat augmented my blow off chops

Come on Craig say the truth, I read you took a vaccine for trolls!


Audioicon

[GY]

It saddens me to see the threads (aside from the troll posts) have been removed. I truly believe it is Craig's right to do so, because this is his forum, but on the other hand believe there was something to be learned from the discourse.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Guys, I'm not Craig, so I can't give you the rundown on why he decided to pull the threads. However, the main "Bruce Thread" is still up, and still a valuable resource for anyone who is interested in his lessons and thoughts.

 

I don't understand and there's something I have to get off my chest.

It was only a couple of days ago when Bruce said that he loved this forum, he said something like 'I love you all' and seemed very happy.

 

Then he sent us the MP3 and opened a thread in which he asked for comments, which many of us gave him.

 

John Sayers participated in this thread and If you would have read his post well, he gave Bruce mucho kudos, but he also had some critique about the loudness which must have been caused by the mastering, done by Bernie Grundman. And actually John had a point.

 

After that Bruce got very angry, got grumpy and showed he's just a human like anybody, with ups and downs, with good times and bad times. There's nothing wrong with being emotional every now and then.

 

After this the trolling began and we all know we should never feed a troll. The next day Craig deleted these posts.

 

Then Bruce started a tread about the clipping for artstic reasons and he was still very pissed.

 

Both treads apparently have been deleted, which I pity because there were some very thoughtful posts in there.

 

I can't understand why this all happened on a forum where people are so friendly with eachother.

 

I want to make a clarification if I may. My comments in the clipping thread were directed towards the people who were coming in from other HC forums and intentionally trolling, and not the people with sincere questions who are regular SSS participants.

 

As far as Bruce being treated like royalty wherever he goes, I think that probably happens... but I don't think his status makes him immune from attacks. On the contrary, the higher one goes up the ladder, and the more public their work is, the more likely they are to draw negative comments and attacks. I've been doing audio forum moderating since the pre-Internet / FIDOnet days, and unfortunately, I've seen it happen many times before. I don't think Bruce is a stranger to the idea of people having negative opinions of his work, or elements of his work - as I said in that thread, it comes with the gig. However, I think he wanted to instill a love for music (first! ) and recording in the next generation of cats, and if that's what he wants to focus on, instead of the technical aspects, I can understand and respect that. That doesn't mean everyone has to love his work, or agree with him on every issue, but I don't think he deserves a bunch of trolls attacking him, and I know that can hurt... but again, that's something different than the legit questions - even if those questions were not what Bruce wanted to focus in on.

 

As has been mentioned in the past, Bruce has had some health issues recently, and I think he needs to focus in on that at the moment. I'm not going to speak for him, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him back here posting again at some point. Since he first showed up over on Musicplayer a few years ago, I've been fortunate enough to get to know Bruce a bit, and I speak to him on the phone and via email fairly regularly. He's one of the good guys, and I've learned a lot from listening to what he's had to say... and I appreciate ANYONE who has that "pay it forward" phillosophy. I think that's another lesson he's given us. What knowledge and experience you have - give it back. Pass it on to the next generation. Instill that love.

 

Thanks for the lessons Bruce - I'll do my best.

[blue2blue]

Many people who are not familiar with common internet forum behavior can be quite put out by it. Old forum hands know how it all works and are often oblivious to the morons and trolls. It requires a certain thickness of skin ......... .

 

As someone who has spent a lot of time arguing politics online in the last 7 years, I say: well, sure.

 

But a free-swinging MySpace political forum and a moderated BB devoted to music and recording issues fortunate enough to occasionally have visits from inarguable masters of the craft are two very different things, seems to me.

 

 

There IS a reason why Craig and Phil's forums (and the Recording forum) are the only HC forums I go to (or were the only MP forums I went to, by and large).

 

The level of discourse in so many other areas of HC and MP is SO debased, intellectually, informationally, and in terms of common civility, that I'd just as soon not even bother with the certifiable philistines, demagogues, and trolls in those forums.

[blue2blue]

I'm sure he will. He just doesn't have a desire to get into heated discussions. Can't blame him, actually.

 

Craig, have you seen how GS sometimes handles "guest stars"?

 

They set up a special sticky thread which is heavily moderated (I realize that may not be possible here since our mods have studios and magazines and whatnot to run ). User comments are reviewed BEFORE they post to keep them focused and keep opportunistic trolls from trying to grab their 15 seconds of fame by attacking people who have actually done something with their lives.

 

It's certainly a very different thing than the typical BB free-for-all. I think they BOTH have their value.

[boosh]

I've been fortunate enough to get to know Bruce a bit, and I speak to him on the phone and via email fairly regularly. He's one of the good guys, and I've learned a lot from listening to what he's had to say... and I appreciate ANYONE who has that "pay it forward" phillosophy. I think that's another lesson he's given us. What knowledge and experience you have - give it back. Pass it on to the next generation. Instill that love. Thanks for the lessons Bruce - I'll do my best.

The same goes for me. Bruce tries to bring over everything he's got to young guys who really are interested in the craft of recording and mixing. I admire him for helping out people who are on a way different level than he is. I'm in a small room next to my livingroon trying to do my best in recording and producing and it's kind of amazing that someone like him actually listens to what I create and calls me to give me advice on how to make it better.
Without this internet forum thing going on me as a dutch guy with a small homebased studio would likely never had a chance to ask questions to someone like him let alone speak to him on the phone about how things are done.

The same goes for Phil. The little homework that he gave me 1.5 week ago broadened my horizon. It taught me that not only turning the panpot would place instruments at a different position but you can do the same with volume and delays.

I am very thankful to Bruce and Phil for teaching guys like me all they know. My son Skip turns three this week and I will pass everything I learn on to him,..if he's interested that is.

Thanks again Bruce........ and Phil,Craig and everybody else who passes on his knowledge. And remember,..there is allways one guy that eats every piece of info and teaching you guys write on here.

Booshy

[John Sayers]

I might point out that Bruce hasn't actually left - he's online now and has been at various times since the fiasco.

I assume that he just isn't willing to post.

[Ernest Buckley]

He is most likely reading this! Which I`m glad because the guy seriously needs to remember he is DA BOMB (thats a good think Bruce) and we all look up to him.

 

Now put your Noggin back on and lets get back to talking shop.

 

Peace,

EB

[Han]

I've said this earlier in the tread that got deleted: I can understand why Bruce got angry. He was hoping we could discuss the music part of his recording. Instead of that we got technical and Bruce always says: music first.

But that's behind us now and I really hope we can make a new start. So I hope Bruce is reading this thread.

Bruce, f**k the trolls, they're not worth any attention and they should be IP banned for life and a complaint should be sent to their provider.

Being a moderator myself I know how annoying this can be. The majority of the forumites are the good guys, from young novice engineers to old brothers in arms. I myself make music for 50 years.

So dear Bruce, please come back and let's have a good time, I'll buy you a beer!

[Anderton]

As to the pulling of the threads, like I said, it happens quite often that threads are deleted at the request of the person who started them, and in that respect, Bruce is treated no differently than anyone else. Besides, the threads are not deleted, merely moved to the Secret Place Where Moved Threads Go. I could go back and edit them for the "meat" and return them if I wanted to or if Bruce asked me to.

I think one thing that has to be considered in all this is that if you have health problems, it's very, very important to avoid stress. Period. If Bruce finds dealing with a forum stressful instead of relaxing, I would advise him not to be involved.

There have often been times in various endeavors where I've felt "I don't need this." That's why I split off the political forum many years ago -- I found it stressful and not fun. Was I running away? Sure. Did I owe anyone moderating a political forum? No, I didn't.

[Cry Logic]

".....I think one thing that has to be considered in all this is that if you have health problems, it's very, very important to avoid stress. Period. If Bruce finds dealing with a forum stressful instead of relaxing, I would advise him not to be involved.

That is so true and probably an important factor that many are overlooking.
Just standing up can be stressful for "old" people.


It's quite amazing how people here seem to think Bruce owes them
his presence on the forum.

IMHO it's incredible he was even here at all, let alone giving us insights
into his amazing career....





.

[audioicon]

Besides, the threads are not deleted, merely moved to the Secret Place Where Moved Threads Go.

Did I not tell you Craig also work for the Secret Service!

By the way where is that secret place?

Audioicon

[Lucky #9]

He can't ignore them, he takes things at face value. It's a little hard to understand if you haven't met Bruce, but if you're a kid who walks up to him at lunch and asks a question, he'll stop eating lunch and answer it.

 

 

My experience was this:

 

I asked questions once or twice in his forum and was ignored, as far as I can tell, so I stopped visiting his house. I read the thread in question (MP3) to the point were he blew his top over the graphic display of the MP3. I thought he over-reacted. And while I have respect for his great talent, I think people are a bit too impressed with celebrity of all sort. Last time I looked. we all put out pants on the same way.

[audioicon]

I disagree. I asked questions on a couple of occasions in his forum and received no answers, so I stopped visiting his house. Seems to me only a select group were paid attention to.

 

 

I asked a question about Michael Jackson technical involvement during mixing/production but got no answer. I have both Special Edition of Bad and Thriller with interviews from Quincy Jones and Rod Templeton but nothing much said about Michael's technical abilities.

 

But I was never offended because he didn't answer, I believe people like Bruce is always overwhelmed by knowledge seekers like me. I would have love to get an answer. I believe Bruce gets tons of questions in the form of PM's and so I never really asked anything else. Just reading what other people were asking was enough for me.

 

On the other hand maybe the question was too personal. I'll asked Quincy Jones when I meet him.

 

But I see where you're coming from.

 

Audioicon

[franknputer]

 

My experience was this: I asked questions once or twice in his forum and was ignored, as far as I can tell, so I stopped visiting his house. I read the thread in question (MP3) to the point were he blew his top over the graphic display of the MP3. I thought he over-reacted. And while I have respect for his great talent, I think people are a bit too impressed with celebrity of all sort. Last time I looked. we all put out pants on the same way.

 

Good post. I really enjoyed that Bruce was open to sharing some things, and if he decides to come back I'd welcome some more. But herein lies a great lesson, perhaps one of the most important lessons in this business: no matter 'Who Someone Is', we're all just human. We all have good days & bad, some of us are nice, not so nice, and some people are assholes.

 

Out of this collective, some people get famous - but this status has nothing to do with their personality or, generally speaking, their ability to do a job. Out of those three things, fame is by far the least impressive to me.

 

Most of us have no idea about Bruce's personal situation, or temperament, or anything - so we cannot pass judgment on him, be it thinking less, or too highly of him. He's a man who's done some excellent audio work, period. Personally, I'm glad for having had a chance to hear a bit of his perspective, and I wish him well.

[UstadKhanAli]

I think people are a bit too impressed with celebrity of all sort. Last time I looked. we all put out pants on the same way.

 

 

Fascinating. Speaking only for myself, I could give a rat's ass about his "celebrity" (I mean, it's not exactly like he's got teenage girls chasing him down the street trying to rip his clothes off - or does he?). I think he's interesting because of the work he's done and what he can teach us. I just think about how much we can learn from a lot of the people who are really knowledgeable here. I show them deference because I respect the work that they do or the knowledge that they possess. If they are a a celebrity but are not nice and don't interact here on this forum then I really could care less about them.

[Ernest Buckley]

Whatever the case, I think Bruce over-reacted as well. I just think everyone was being SO nice to him, he just thought that was standard forum behavior. The minute someone found technical fault and proved it with his work, he freaked. I think he got embarrassed. Again though, does it really matter? His resume speaks for itself.

[ultravibe]

Fascinating. Speaking only for myself, I could give a rat's ass about his "celebrity" (I mean, it's not exactly like he's got teenage girls chasing him down the street trying to rip his clothes off - or does he?). I think he's interesting because of the work he's done and what he can teach us. I just think about how much we can learn from a lot of the people who are really knowledgeable here. I show them deference because I respect the work that they do or the knowledge that they possess. If they are a a celebrity but are not nice and don't interact here on this forum then I really could care less about them.

 

 

I think this is absolutely true - a reverent respect for his body of work doesn't at all equate to the same thing as celebrity fawning. We could learn from him, and tried to. I'll go 1 step further than Ken and say if there is a celebrity around but there's nothing I can learn from them, then I couldn't care less.

[Anderton]

Frankly, there are few people we can't learn something from! I'd be the first to say that what Bruce offered had the voice of experience folded in...but I've learned a lot from teenagers, too, who were able to have a totally fresh perspective on things.

We're all in this together.

[John Sayers]

I'm sure Bruce probably learnt from us as well - he's learnt a few things about puters etc since he's been here.

[Geoff Grace]

We each shine in our own ways that make us special.

 

The bottom line is that everyone should be treated equally ... equally well that is, not equally poorly.

 

That said -- and because this thread is about Bruce -- I've enjoyed our friend the Viking's presence here. I hope we'll see him online again sometime soon.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Lucky #9]

We each shine in our own ways that make us special. The bottom line is that everyone should be treated equally ... equally well that is, not equally poorly.

 

[UstadKhanAli]

I'm sure Bruce probably learnt from us as well - he's learnt a few things about puters etc since he's been here.

Exactly. That's what I mean by the interaction.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

 

Well, since you couldn't tell that I was being a little facetious, the point that was that he's actually not a really big celebrity. But regardless, hopefully you got the MAIN point that it really doesn't matter since many of us are largely giving him respect due to WHAT he has done, how much knowledge he possesses, and the fact that he enjoys interacting with us, not because he's a celebrity.