Members blue2blue Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 The superbowl is not just for professional musicians and sound guys who tear most anything apart, it's for everybody. IMO, 99% of the people who heard it enjoyed it. Was it perfect? No. Pitch correction? Sounds like it. Did I enjoy it, absolutely! I even liked what Price did in the pouring rain.Sometimes I need to work to enjoy musical performances and not be so analitcal. Wow. I thought it sounded really, really wrong -- no matter how it was "achieved." I agree with those that feel it would have been far preferable to hear him sing au naturel with some acutual, human errrors -- than the weirdly awkward, pitch-jumping mess that we heard. I don't think there was anything much legitimately "musical" about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members linwood Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 It was the preset they used. I think they used the Foster Brooks setting, but in hindsight should have just put it on "Dino." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Good Lord.Ya know I am NOT a Billy Joel fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not gonna slag him at all for this. I'm sure it would've been fine if not for the Autotune. In fact I would bet money that he was just doing a lot of expressive pitch bending on his notes and the Autotune flattened them. That's the impression I had as well. It didn't seem like a horrible vocal, it's just what the AutoTune thing did to it. Made his vocals really odd sounding (and I don't think it was subtle, just like a lot of you who have posted feel as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PintoMusic Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Ya know I am NOT a Billy Joel fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not gonna slag him at all for this. I'm sure it would've been fine if not for the Autotune. In fact I would bet money that he was just doing a lot of expressive pitch bending on his notes and the Autotune flattened them. And if a few notes had been off because he can't hear himself in that environment... so what? Not a big deal.Those things should NOT be used live. Well, IMO they shouldn't be used at all, but especially not live. Sheeesh. I haven't seen this clip yet (I'll look at it when I get home from work), but the other day, I was watching the UNCF tribute to Aretha Franklin which featured a performance by Stevie Wonder. Stevie's voice is normally so full of glissando/portamento and you could hear the auto-tune quantizing his vocal slides into steps. It sounded horrible. If that's what he was hearing in his monitor feed, my hat really goes off to him for not losing it. Live auto-tune just doesn't work for some singers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thankyou Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 When he started, my first thought was whether he had the confidence in his range, as he seemed to stumble right at first. I don't think of Billy Joel as a wide ranged singer, though I don't really know for sure. This is not an easy song to sing in any key. Then I saw the rain hitting the piano. That would have put me off my game. Prince seemed to handle playing in even more rain at half-time. I guess it was Vikings over Giants/Jets yesterday.Maybe Billy should have done it acapella, a continuously variable form of autotune. Good thing Randy, Paula and Simon weren't there. The guy wouldn't have a career, huh? I also wondered if he was drinking a wee bit too much before he came out and played before the world. Anyway, I thank you all for this discussion, because I've heard of autotune, but didn't really know what it sounded like, or that there were different settings that acted, I guess, like a compressor by varying attack and degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members audioicon Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 My only problem with Auto-tune is when people depend on it to fix {censored}ty vocals like the Paris Hilton CD and the Ciara albums. Like what Phill is saying, if you have a good take but a little pitch problem, that's understandable but if you tell a singer don't worry if you suck, I'll run it through Auto-tune then that person should go to cooking school. Audioicon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Oh yeah... I'm not against Autotune (or other pitch-correction) per se -- I just think it's a drag when it makes something quite possibly worse than it would have been in the first place. With regards to an earlier post, I find it disheartening that someone like Stevie Wonder would use Autotune... I would previously have thought it all but unimaginable (for other than "effect" purposes, I suppose I should add). Now -- I've tried pitch-correction a couple of times on my vocals and decided that pitch was not the problem or at least not all of it. I just have an irritating voice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members miden Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I respectfully disagree. My job as a producer and engineer is to make the best record that I can, given the talent, material and budget I have to work with. If a singer just nails the feel of a line, but there's a slight intonation issue, I have several options: [i only cut most of the answer because of space:)].....thanks for the reply phil, i guess i hadn't quite thought of it that way, so i appreciate you taking the time to go a bit more "in-depth"....so yeah, i would agree okay to help out a true vocalist just having a bad day, or to fit a mix a bit better, but i think its still a no as to making a dodgy singer mediocre..dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PintoMusic Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 With regards to an earlier post, I find it disheartening that someone like Stevie Wonder would use Autotune... I would previously have thought it all but unimaginable (for other than "effect" purposes, I suppose I should add). I'm not so sure it was meant for him because it obviously wasn't calibrated for his voice. To me, it seemed like it was a production error - perhaps something leftover from the previous act. I just hope the auto-tuned signal wasn't what Stevie was getting in-ear. For someone like him who probably has more sensitive hearing than someone with sight, that would probably be really annoying. Regarding auto-tune in the studio, I've heard people perform absolute miracles with Melodyne... pitch correction, adding vibrato, etc... with that, anyone can sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tradivoro1 Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hi guys, definitely an autotuned performance... Now here's another explanation... Billy is not an autotune kind of guy... He plays the piano and he sings... It's possible that the autotune was left on for somebody else, and he noticed it shortly after the song... However, he's singing the national anthem, at the super bowl... He's not going to stop the performance and say "get this autotune off my voice"... He kept going, he finished, 99% of the audience didn't notice and life goes on... It's possible somebody got admonished for leaving the autotune on... But I don't think he requested it... I remember on the grammys once, Celine Dion was accompanied by Richard Marx on piano... there was some kind of malfunction with the mic... She went on as though nothing had happened... I'm sure she told somebody off afterwards, but they were on tv and they just did it in spite of the technical malfunction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 That engineer has the settings all messed up and he should be fired.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PintoMusic Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hi guys, definitely an autotuned performance... You think? I just watched it... holy {censored}. If that was supposed to be intentional use of auto-tune then there's a sound engineer out there who should be fired. They had it on so tight, it couldn't even tolerate the vibrato in his voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 It's possible that the autotune was left on for somebody else, and he noticed it shortly after the song... Not possible, every input is discrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted February 6, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2007 Live auto-tune just doesn't work for some singers. Live auto-tune is unnecessary for a real singer... MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synonym Music Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 If you can't hear the auto tune in the first bar.... your under 25.Wrong, sir! ...Next!!!And this whole incident kept reminding me of the melodyne demo song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted February 6, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2007 Live auto-tune is unnecessary for a real singer...MG I just listened to the video. It was unnecessary here too. Obviously a mistake on someone's part. Either a serious mistake in the settings, or, in my opinion, a mistake to use it at all. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 Gosh, it's been a while since I last saw Joel. The male-pattern thing really nailed him. He used to have such a nice head of hair. Shame. No one sang the anthem like Murphy.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhdCb-4vLkc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jguitarguy27 Posted February 8, 2007 Members Share Posted February 8, 2007 Remember this performance? http://youtube.com/watch?v=ldXjOAMBjV0 No auto-tune needed for that! Just awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheLuxLife Posted February 8, 2007 Members Share Posted February 8, 2007 Remember this performance? http://youtube.com/watch?v=ldXjOAMBjV0 No auto-tune needed for that! Just awesome. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted February 8, 2007 Members Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'm pretty much with Lee in the idea that having the Auto-Tune off (and having Billy perhaps be pitchy but have some more feeling and vibe to his voice) would have been preferable. On the other national anthem clip (the one with the eagle) he is pretty pitchy. I suspect he ends up in a different key. But it works. We had a sound guy who found a bunch of compression settings from the internet for each kind of instrument. Dialed them in and destroyed the mix that day. But his new digital mixer could do it and he figured more is better. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted February 8, 2007 Members Share Posted February 8, 2007 The marines working over at the US embassy are already yodeling the new and improved autotuned version when they come home from the drinking tour at three in the morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted February 10, 2007 Members Share Posted February 10, 2007 I'm almost embarrassed to say I didn't notice the Autotune when I watched Billy's performance (and I usually have no trouble recognizing the effect). All I could tell was that he sounded significantly off-key. And that the performance (including his piano playing) was itself pretty stiff and unimaginative. And I'm a big Billy Joel fan! I think it's anybody's guess whose idea actually was to Autotune his vocals, but we all know that Billy Joel can sing, and he also has perfect pitch (according to Wikipedia). Whatever decisions were made in preparation for his performance were most likely taking in to consideration that it is often hard for performers to adequately hear themselves at such events. As much preparation that goes into them, I'm sure the soundmen often have to fly by the seat of their pants, unlike a rock concert, where everything is specifically tailored to the musicians/performers. Not saying this excuses the use of Autotune in this instance, but I think it at least helps to explain what might have been the rationale behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cerumen Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 i loved the out of tune stuff.... it was refreshing... personally, i think he partied pretty good before the performance and was being mr. rock 'n' roll and rebelling against all the other lip-sync'ers. nobody understood at my bbq when i said, "that was awesome! finally we hear a live performance on tv." I personally wouldn't mind hearing out of key singers in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members molsen Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 obviously you didn't read this thread. it was very much NOT a live performance in it's truest meaning. the pitches he sing were altered by the autotuner. he used what most pop acts use nowadays, except poorly. hardly refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheLuxLife Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 i loved the out of tune stuff.... it was refreshing... personally, i think he partied pretty good before the performance and was being mr. rock 'n' roll and rebelling against all the other lip-sync'ers. nobody understood at my bbq when i said, "that was awesome! finally we hear a live performance on tv." I personally wouldn't mind hearing out of key singers in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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