Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Very refreshing and creative arrangement of a well known melody !!! Too bad the autotune guy didn't dial an african scale with two sharps and two flats, i.e D Eb F# G A Bb C# D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d. gauss Posted February 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 i would REALLY like to see and hear any one of you arm-chair experts get out in front of the tens of thousands of people, have a mix that was set up totally for a vocal lead, ie no covering the singers bad stuff with really loud instruments, and do a better job!!i think prince did just that. and then some. at the same event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 off you go then, get posting...mind you you might have a bit of a problem filling the stadium Sang my big butt off when we opened for Willie Nelson a few months ago, in Montgomery...8500+ attendance. I have done a couple of shows larger than that as well. I do realize that the majority of the crowd didn't come necessarily to see us, and they damn sure didn't come to see me sing. But I promise I sounded better than Billy Joel did, last night, and we got the most kudos of anybody on the bill, in the next morning's paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members miden Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 i just had another look at the video, and where exactly is the autotune unit located? he reaches out to the right at the start of the clip, but anyone who saw his special at the university of, i think it was philadelphia a couple of years ago, would remember he adjusted his midi stuff for his piano on the right side there as well...and that show was not autotuned...isn't it possible it was done without him knowing it, ergo as molsen points out the criticism should be levelled at the producers and not bj??? just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 well, without wanting to get too involved in this, i would REALLY like to see and hear any one of you arm-chair experts get out in front of the tens of thousands of people, have a mix that was set up totally for a vocal lead, ie no covering the singers bad stuff with really loud instruments, and do a better job!! That's an attitude the world would be better off without. Any time any of us as performers do our jobs, whether we get on stage in a club in front of 10 people of in a stadium in front of 50,000 people, we are opening ourselves to criticism. There are no real excuses as to why something sounds like ass. Billy Joel is an amazing talent whose previous performances lead to a higher standard than what he did at the Super Bowl. And, in fact, almost all of the criticism here on this thread has been about the blatant and incorrect use of Auto-Tune. If it had been used correctly, you wouldn't have been able to perceive it. So no, I'm not planning on performing at any stadiums any time soon, and yet I still reserve the right to mention my feelings about a {censored}ty performance. That's the nice thing about opinions and anuses: we all have them. - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverdrivenEL34s Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 i'd have much rather him gone out there and sing it and get off pitch, but at least sound like billy joel, rather than that robotic amateur suckfest. very well stated. i agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members miden Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 That's an attitude the world would be better off without.Any time any of us as performers do our jobs, whether we get on stage in a club in front of 10 people of in a stadium in front of 50,000 people, we are opening ourselves to criticism. There are no real excuses as to why something sounds like ass.Billy Joel is an amazing talent whose previous performances lead to a higher standard than what he did at the Super Bowl. And, in fact, almost all of the criticism here on this thread has been about the blatant and incorrect use of Auto-Tune. If it had been used correctly, you wouldn't have been able to perceive it.So no, I'm not planning on performing at any stadiums any time soon, and yet I still reserve the right to mention my feelings about a {censored}ty performance. That's the nice thing about opinions and anuses: we all have them.- Jeff yeah i agree with you, and i wasn't trying to be provocative with it, but shouldnt it be the producers who cop the bagging? not BJ...fwiw i couldnt really hear the autotune anyway, i was too interested in the performance...as i said way back i am not a yank, but it was one of the most enjoyable performances of your anthem i have heard, maybe coz it was bj, i dunno, but his charisma worked for me and i thought it was good, warts and alldennisand about anuses, you know, you go thru life's sh*t, and when you finally get on top of it all, what do you see, just another bunch of ar*seholes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 That's the nice thing about opinions and anuses: we all have them. - Jeff A lot of people talk like the stuff that comes out of mine.I don't mean you Mr.Klopweasel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I see. Yes, it's always hard to tell who to blame. Bad performance? Choice of gear used? Other influencing factors? Anyway, glad you enjoyed it. Our anthem is notoriously hard to do well... covers an octave and a half, and is often performed in keys outside the comfort range of a lot of singers. I've sung it at sporting events, and it's never as simple as it sounds. - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Good Lord. Ya know I am NOT a Billy Joel fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not gonna slag him at all for this. I'm sure it would've been fine if not for the Autotune. In fact I would bet money that he was just doing a lot of expressive pitch bending on his notes and the Autotune flattened them. And if a few notes had been off because he can't hear himself in that environment... so what? Not a big deal. Those things should NOT be used live. Well, IMO they shouldn't be used at all, but especially not live. Sheeesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 A friend of mine has just told me " this may be Billy Joel's version of Janeth Jackson's wardrobe malfunction " ... at least we did not see any of Joel's private parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Anyway, glad you enjoyed it. Our anthem is notoriously hard to do well... covers an octave and a half, and is often performed in keys outside the comfort range of a lot of singers. I've sung it at sporting events, and it's never as simple as it sounds.- Jeff Have you ever seen that,..what was it? Canadian chick do the anthem on iceskates,.......whahahah I don't know what I'd prefer,.gettin caught with autotune or the stunt she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted February 5, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 5, 2007 the folks at antares probably won't use this video for promoting their live autotune processer(if thats what was used) since it unfortunatly for them shows what a worthless peice of {censored} it is. No truer words ever typed on HC forums. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boyband03 Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 tim mcgraw tours w 7 or 8 auto tunes in his rack... one for every key/mode they play in... hell its country music.... i figured one in G would suffice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 fwiw, in reply to phil o'keefe, i believe it should never be used at all..if the singer aint good enough, well then they aint good enough, dont matter if they are pretty or buff and the record company wants to market the sh*t out of them...give the gig to someone who can sing, not pretend to....in the case of bj, i think you may be right and he was doing a bit of a bluesy thing, and maybe, just maybe the studio room people decided THEY didn't like it and then used the autotune...in which case i refer to my opening statement.....(btw isn't there a 6 second delay time, or something like that, on all live stuff in the states?) I respectfully disagree. My job as a producer and engineer is to make the best record that I can, given the talent, material and budget I have to work with. If a singer just nails the feel of a line, but there's a slight intonation issue, I have several options: 1. Cut the part again, or punch in on the line to fix it. 2. Choose a different pass where the "feel" isn't as good, but the pitch / intonation isn't an issue. 3. Use autotune to correct the intonation issue on the take with the great "feel", thereby keeping the feel (which for me is oftentimes the most important thing) and getting rid of the pitch issue that would otherwise detract and distract from the feel of the line. If repeated attempts at option #1 doesn't result in a take with equally good "feel", then I have no problem with resorting to option #3. My way of looking at it is that multitrack recording is illusionary to begin with - we're creating the illusion of a simultaneous performance that never happened that way whenever we overdub, punch in, edit, etc. etc. Can those tools be used to make someone of marginal talent sound like they're better than they really are? Sure. Should they be used in that way, and where is the line between helping out a talented artist and "manufacturing" a performance that is light years beyond their capabilities? Who makes that determination? Those are the deeper phillosophical questions IMHO... and I don't have any "hard and fast" answers to those questions, because each situation is different. But in general, I don't lean towards over-use of the technical corrective tools, and I agree that the reliance on the technology to the detriment of artistic ability and capabilities, and the striving for utter "perfection" in music is lamentable. Personally I prefer a little humanity in my music. YMMV. Of course, none of that studio trickery is possible to do in a live situation. Even with a 6 second delay, you don't have time to use the graphic mode in AT to make any corrections - it's definitely "auto mode or nothing at all". As far as the guys in the truck making the decisions, I know nothing about that at all. I've never worked on a Super Bowl show, and unlike a couple of others who have posted in this thread, I have no inside knowledge about how the shows are set up, who makes the decisions, where the pitch correction unit is in the signal path and who has control over it, etc. But it did have to be patched into the signal path from the very beginning - there simply wasn't time for anyone to decide "they didn't like it" and then patch the unit into the signal path and turn it on - it was already in the signal path before he ever sang his first note. They could have turned the "bypass" off (enabling the unit) in mid performance, but even that would have had to have been done in the very first few seconds to account for the glitches we hear early on in the clip. I therefore suspect it was "on" from the very beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I'm actually auditioning to be a national anthem singer at a major sports venue. I'm recording my required a cappella version right now and the only effects I intend to put in there is a little compression and a little reverb. I recorded a take on Friday with one bad note (no, it's not the "land of the free" line, I can handle that one easily)...I was really tempted to use Graphical Mode on Autotune or splice one from another take but I know I can do it (the whole song is only about a minute and a half long). The trick is finding a comfy key ( I do it in B). I think people ruin it for themselves when they select a key that's too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I'm pretty much with Lee in the idea that having the Auto-Tune off (and having Billy perhaps be pitchy but have some more feeling and vibe to his voice) would have been preferable. Then we all could have just ripped on Billy Joel instead of Billy's choice in gear. - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Then we all could have just ripped on Billy Joel instead of Billy's choice in gear. HAHAHA!!! Sheesh, remind me to put it in our rider that anybody who uses pitch correction on my band will be summarily drawn and quartered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Is it time allready for the Harmony Central American Anthem Contest?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I'm actually auditioning to be a national anthem singer at a major sports venue.I almost auditioned at Staples Center a couple of years ago for singing at LA Kings games, and then had a schedule conflict at the last minute that allowed me to chicken out with an excuse. Let us know how you do... for the audition I was going to, they did not accept recordings and your only trial opportunity was doing the anthem a capella in front of their panel. Eeek.- Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I almost auditioned at Staples Center a couple of years ago for singing at LA Kings games, and then had a schedule conflict at the last minute that allowed me to chicken out with an excuse. Let us know how you do... for the audition I was going to, they did not accept recordings and your only trial opportunity was doing the anthem a capella in front of their panel. Eeek. - Jeff This is for Dodger Stadium, they ask for a recording. Personally I'd prefer a live audition, it's less time consuming!If I make it, believe me, I'm gonna let the whole world know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Is it time allready for the Harmony Central American Anthem Contest??I guess someone beat us all to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I guess someone beat us all to it... Oh my GAWD ,.hahaha did you see that quarterhorse get knocked down at the end,.....whhhhhhhhhhhhhahahaha....I bet this guy someday gets a bullet from someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 If I make it, believe me, I'm gonna let the whole world know I do it in G, so my high note is a D. I can do that without a strain.You do it in B??? I'd have to have my testicles removed before nailing the F#. - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 i just had another look at the video, and where exactly is the autotune unit located? he reaches out to the right at the start of the clip, but anyone who saw his special at the university of, i think it was philadelphia a couple of years ago, would remember he adjusted his midi stuff for his piano on the right side there as well...and that show was not autotuned...isn't it possible it was done without him knowing it, ergo as molsen points out the criticism should be levelled at the producers and not bj??? just a thought The last place it would be is on his piano. Yes he was autotuned, no it was not in his control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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