The most original musician of all time is....

[Kendrix]

Good lists so far.
"Most" original is an unanswerable question IMHO.

Let's not forget SUN RA!- even though he'll admit to borrowing from the culture on saturn. Hoy Hoy

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Am I an original? Sooner or later, this is a question every artist is trying to answer. For me, some of the more interesting responses came from people saying something about the work, so it was not me giving the answer. It was also interesting to hear what answers other artists experienced to this question, but somehow not one seems to answer this question for himself.

'I dreamt one night that I painted the flag of America. The next day I did it.'
Jasper Johns

"That distinction between saying something and being something corresponds precisely to Wittgenstein's distinction between what can be said and what shows itself, and the point about art is that it shows rather than says.

[steveg]

The premise of this question is a bit of a problem because the greatest innovators always build on the work of others!!!

So, the first that come to mind are Mozart and Louis Armstrong, however, they were the most creative innovators utilizing what was evolving around them in their day? Mozart was a prolific creator of great music using the styles and counterpoint and harmony of his contemparies, he just did it way better. Louis Armstrong is responsbile for so much of what we think of as jazz and blues, but he was building on his contemparies.

So, the answer may have to go back to someone like UGG, the caveman that first tied up a flexible string across a stick and starting to make music

[Geoff Grace]

Geoff, I wasn't the one who nominated Partch -- it was Hard Truth, in thethread's innagural post.

D'oh!

Sorry I missed that!

Best,

Geoff

[Rabid]

My vote goes to the first person to move from a single rock or log to using multiple items to create tuned percussion. Or it could go to the person that developed the first scale. Or the person that created the first wind instrument. Or stringed instrument. Or 4/4 timing.

I don't know who these people are, but they get my vote.

Robert

[captain average]

dylan invented two or three -genres-. i'm gonna have to go with the bobster.

[fetishfrog]

It's hard to argue with Harry Partch. From concept to realization, he provided all the pieces of the puzzle except the physics.

For those who expanded on already existing systems/instruments: George Crumb, Jimi Hendrix, Lennie Tristano (recorded the first "free jazz" record in 1949), Zappa....the list continues.

[LIMiT]

The parents of all mentioned 'created' the 'original' artist. Thats got to count for something

The way they made them is not so original however. (more or less)

-LIMiT

[eeglug]

Anton Webern

The Residents

Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band

[nat whilk II]

An impossible question, but still provokes interesting answers....

I agree with Craig about Kraftwerk as far as that genre goes.

Little Richard was pretty durn unusual when he first hit the R&R scene...

I'm a big Beethoven fan - his creativity just goes on and on and on. I see him as basically more "original" than Mozart, but not necessarily better.

Brian Eno - maybe there are predecessors I don't know much about, but back in the 70s his ambient material basically defined the new genre and is good now as it was then in spite of all the other folks working the field.

Debussy certainly expanded the harmonic toolkit for "classical" music...

Jimmy Smith did things with the B3 that were unimagined before him....

But the most original.....all I can do is throw a dart and say JS Bach for the sake of saying something plausible.

nat whilk ii

[Ed A.]

 

Brian Eno - maybe there are predecessors I don't know much about, but back in the 70s his ambient material basically defined the new genre and is good now as it was then in spite of all the other folks working the field.

 

 

Even though I really admire Eno's music, I don't think he's particularly original. He coined the term "ambient music", but he borrowed from Terry Riley, early Tangerine Dream circa 1970 (Alpha Centauri and Zeit are very ambient predating Eno's work), Erik Satie, La Monte Young, John Cage, Vladimir Ussachevsky, Otto Luening, Raymond Scott and other electronic music pioneers. Some of these people were doing things in the 40s and 50s that sounded very much like ambient music. Eno just has a knack for tweaking it a bit, putting a name to it and marketing it to his advantage. Sort of like the Andy Warhol of electronic music, not necessarily a bad thing IMO.

[rasputin1963]

What about that brilliant Mexican oddball named Esquiv

[cooterbrown]

Albert, BB, and Freddie King, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, and Muddy Waters should get a mention.

They all invented whole new musical vocabularies, if you will, in the context of electric guitar-driven blues and rock n roll.

[JLo]

Many responses here are all VERY accurate (although I woul dprobably say AL Webber is probably not very original for the most part.

The most original musicians are somtimes those that, at the time of their "reign," are hailed as the most outlandish and avant garde. I studied this stuff pretty extensively in college, and find it all quite interesting.

In my book, Bach is IT. there is probably noone else that did the amazing things he did. His counterpoint, harmonic progression and melody is still to this day unsurpassed. BUT - was he original or merely a genius building on that which came before him?

Also up there is Arnold Schoenberg and his contemproarie, Berg and Webern. Schoenberg did things, especially in Pierrot Lunaire that experimented with 12 tone in an unprecented way. He furthered his atonality with 12 tone rows and Webern went even further, extending 12 tone theory to set theory.

Partch is cool, in terms of modern sythesis and electronic music. But surpassing him is probably John Cage. His philisophical ideas that accompanied his works were as original as Socrates and Nietzche in some cases. He once transcribed the soundof a piano falling out of a studio apartment onto a NYC street below... how original can you get?

But we must also extend not onlyto composer only, but performer composer as well. Miles Davis, John Coltraine and Bill Evans are unparalled in what they did for jazz and music in general. These h=guys have endlessly influenced one of my fav expeiremental groups - Medeski Martin and Wood. These guys are original as well, but are not too much more than a modern extension of Miles davis as well.

Other performers like Glen Gould come to mind too. But what about original in terms of "Pop" music? Was Elvis original? Led Zepplin? Pink Floyd? Was Jimi Hendrix actually original, or just a god musician? In my book Prince, Elton John, Pink Floyd (perhaps), Quincy Jones, Frank Sinatra - these guys were able to break some of them limits (I'm sure there are more) set by theie "modern pop contemporaries." I know of one hip hop artist (Tonex) that could probably be called the Andy Kaufmann of hiphop because he wants to go outon the longest limb he can to do thing noone ever has before,but his peers tear him down becauseof it.

"Classical" and art music, I think have always produced some of the more original musicians. I think it is in part because they are not interested in the money as much as the art. All too often people think thay are original when they are just another rehash of something already done.

Gotta go, I'll finish later....

[Ed A.]

What about that brilliant Mexican oddball named Esquiv

[rasputin1963]

What about that famous European "artist" of the 1800's called LE P

[Lee Knight]

Many responses here are all VERY accurate (although I woul dprobably say AL Webber is probably not very original for the most part. The most original musicians are somtimes those that, at the time of their "reign," are hailed as the most outlandish and avant garde. I studied this stuff pretty extensively in college, and find it all quite interesting. In my book, Bach is IT. there is probably noone else that did the amazing things he did. His counterpoint, harmonic progression and melody is still to this day unsurpassed. BUT - was he original or merely a genius building on that which came before him? Also up there is Arnold Schoenberg and his contemproarie, Berg and Webern. Schoenberg did things, especially in Pierrot Lunaire that experimented with 12 tone in an unprecented way. He furthered his atonality with 12 tone rows and Webern went even further, extending 12 tone theory to set theory. Partch is cool, in terms of modern sythesis and electronic music. But surpassing him is probably John Cage. His philisophical ideas that accompanied his works were as original as Socrates and Nietzche in some cases. He once transcribed the soundof a piano falling out of a studio apartment onto a NYC street below... how original can you get? But we must also extend not onlyto composer only, but performer composer as well. Miles Davis, John Coltraine and Bill Evans are unparalled in what they did for jazz and music in general. These h=guys have endlessly influenced one of my fav expeiremental groups - Medeski Martin and Wood. These guys are original as well, but are not too much more than a modern extension of Miles davis as well. Other performers like Glen Gould come to mind too. But what about original in terms of "Pop" music? Was Elvis original? Led Zepplin? Pink Floyd? Was Jimi Hendrix actually original, or just a god musician? In my book Prince, Elton John, Pink Floyd (perhaps), Quincy Jones, Frank Sinatra - these guys were able to break some of them limits (I'm sure there are more) set by theie "modern pop contemporaries." I know of one hip hop artist (Tonex) that could probably be called the Andy Kaufmann of hiphop because he wants to go outon the longest limb he can to do thing noone ever has before,but his peers tear him down becauseof it. "Classical" and art music, I think have always produced some of the more original musicians. I think it is in part because they are not interested in the money as much as the art. All too often people think thay are original when they are just another rehash of something already done. Gotta go, I'll finish later....

 

 

What you said. Spot on for me...

 

I agree about Bach. He is my all time favorite, but I don't think he was original. He "just" took the existing information and took it so far beyond where it was before he started.

 

Don't know Tonex.

 

Here's one... Theolonious Monk. Now that was original.

 

I also believe Jimi was a true original. I can hear where he came from, blues, r&b, and Coltraine, but it doesn't quite explain what he did... he was a true original in my book.

 

Glenn Gould, yep. His interpretations of Bach are like nobody elses. Sometimes I almost thing Bach wouldn't have approved, but I love it. Bach with an edge... that's original.

[nat whilk II]

But we must also extend not onlyto composer only, but performer composer as well. Miles Davis, John Coltraine and Bill Evans are unparalled in what they did for jazz and music in general. These h=guys have endlessly influenced one of my fav expeiremental groups - Medeski Martin and Wood. These guys are original as well, but are not too much more than a modern extension of Miles davis as well. ....

 

 

 

To me, Medeski is the Hendrix of the B3.

 

nat whilk ii

[Hard Truth]

Jlo wrote "Partch is cool, in terms of modern sythesis and electronic music."

For everyone's clarification, Partch was not an electronic musician. He invented and used unique acoustic instruments that employed his unique system of intonation for the ensembles that perfromed his music. There may have been pickups on some of the instruments, but they were all basically acoustic instruments.

I think Cage is his closest rival for originallity, in that much of his work eschewed conventional instruments, instead he used devices such as radios and prepared pianos to create music. His writings explaining how all sound (and/or "silence") could be incorporated into music were highly influential. He envisioned multi-track audio recording (using several of the optical recorders used for film sound) well before it became a practical reality.

[fetishfrog]

Add to the list Giacinto Scelsi...one of my favorites and and a definite original.

http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/scelsi.html

[Roy Brooks]

I like Harry Partch. I even have one of his records.

[christolattus]

Let's just throw:

Moondog
Johnny Guitar Watson
-/=and=/-
Charles Mingus

into the stew

[blue2blue]

 

Lee Flier wrote (in another forum): "I guess everybody has someplace they draw the line in terms of what "original" means, but you know... unless you personally invented all the musical instruments you use and the scales you compose in, everything is built on the back of something else" The only composer/musician I know of that invented both his own scales and his own instruments is Harry Partch. By now there may be another experimental musican who has done the same, but they probably got the idea from Harry, so they can't top him.

 

 

OK... I was gonna jump in with Captain Beefheart or Sun Ra... but... yeah, Harry Partch is pretty much the ultimate DIY musician.

 

With regard to "inventing" the scales, some would say he simply tried to bring more accurate harmonic relationships into "post-even-tempered-scale" music... and that required, to his way of thinking, the invention of instruments which could play those non-tempered scales.

 

BTW, glad to see Nancarrow cited above! His work with player pianos and music-making machines was pretty amazing at times.

[angus_old]

stevie ray vaughan

[blue2blue]

30 years ago when I was into my jazz studies at college we were lucky enough to receive a demonstration of Partch's music complete with the original instruments. I was completely clueless at the time. "But why would you want notes between the keys? Those notes are wrong aren't they?"

 

Actually, the problem is many of the notes "normal" modern musicians play are wrong. As I'm sure you know.

 

But a lot of folks don't know that the equal-tempered scale is a compromise which "splits the difference" between true harmonic values in order to afford the ability of fixed note instruments (like pianos and fretted instruments) to approximate the proper pitches while still allowing the ability to move from one key to another. It grew out of earlier attempts at "circular temperament" that could be used in multiple keys, like the early "mean-temperament" that was just being supplanted by more refined temperaement models in Bach's day. (Hence, Bach's "demonstration pieces" for the "well-tempered clavier." The modern "even-tempered" scale is a further refinement.)