Members Jkater Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 Just one more question: is the primary purpose of the band social (ie a bunch of mates getting together to be a band as a fun thing that you can all do together) or musical (ie get the best people you can find in one place to make the best music you can)?If the latter -- then who is, more or less, in charge of the band's musical destiny? Who writes the originals (if any), who formed the band, who runs the rehearsals? (Can be more than one person, of course.)Who sings? Who's the lead instrumentalist?(Who owns the van and the PA?)Okay, so that's several questions ... I play these days in two bands. One band is a group of friends that I knew way back when and we gig occasionnaly and I get a little pocket money from that. I play the bass, mandoline, banjo and guitar. The percussionnist is pathetic. He has no musical sense or good taste to speak of and he recks basically what could be a fairly good sounding band. But I'm not in charge and the others are uncomfortable when I voice my dissatisfaction with this (although they see my point). I am getting the message that the good mood of everyone is more important than the music... I could say goodbye but it's an easy job and I get paid... My other band is my dream come true and does not pay me a cent. I am challenged like rarely before and I love it. It's a (jazz) big band made up of music teachers and, incidently, the drummer is one of the best I've ever heard or played with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BAXANDALL Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 Replace her with EZDrummer like I just did and tell your keyboard player to comfort himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 You've kind of made his point for him though, haven't you? If you can't hold the beat then you suck as a drummer, I believe is the point he was trying to make. I think you've pretty much reaffirmed that. Yeah but everyone keeps saying for the OP to dump the drummer when he's clearly said that they are friends and want to stay together as a group. My point is nobody is born with the ability to "hold" a groove. Everyone has to develop it through some type of practice. Even freaks of nature like Tony Williams had to work to be like that. His statement was simplistic to begin with. The OP's drummer can develop good time if she decides to focus on it. They may just have to be a bit patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 I had to recently change drummers from a really nice/cool guy and old friend to our current guy (cool guy as well) because the first guy couldn't keep time and couldn't remember songs week in and week out. Drove us nuts. YOu need to have at least a solid rhythm guy back there. Again that ability is learned...not natural... The one you got rid of just never practiced time properly. I don't blame you for changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burgess Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 Yeah but everyone keeps saying for the OP to dump the drummer when he's clearly said that they are friends and want to stay together as a group. My point is nobody is born with the ability to "hold" a groove. Everyone has to develop it through some type of practice. Even freaks of nature like Tony Williams had to work to be like that. His statement was simplistic to begin with. The OP's drummer can develop good time if she decides to focus on it. They may just have to be a bit patient. I dunno...When I was in grade school pretty much the whole class could pound out a James Brown drum break on those big old desks we used to sit at. But then again back in those days music was a required course and we were taught rhythm as part of our curriculum.I understand the OP has stated the drummer stays but nonetheless this is still an interesting dialog. I think most of us has likely played with a drummer that may have been not always up to the task, it can be quite the experience. I can recall holding my breath everytime a particular drummer did a fill because you never knew if he was gonna find the one afterwards. It was very much like rolling the dice everytime and imagine that during a guitar solo. ...and one more thing. There's been more sugarcoating in this thread than any other I can recently recall. We all know, at least those of us that've been around the block a few times, the chances of this drummer getting any better are remote at best. I mean we all like the notion that practice will make you better and all that but for a person holding down a day job? I myself have just never seen it. I can't say it never happens but I personally have just never actually seen it with my own two eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrjones Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 Yeah but everyone keeps saying for the OP to dump the drummer when he's clearly said that they are friends and want to stay together as a group. My point is nobody is born with the ability to "hold" a groove. Everyone has to develop it through some type of practice. Even freaks of nature like Tony Williams had to work to be like that. His statement was simplistic to begin with.The OP's drummer can develop good time if she decides to focus on it. They may just have to be a bit patient. And the OP also said he has a problem with the lack of any semblance of 'time' from the drummer. So they could wait around for a year or two and see if their friend ever really becomes a drummer, or they could move-on with the band. I think the OP is gonna have to choose friendship or musicianship eventually, and why prolong the inevitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tinwhisker Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 ...and tell your keyboard player to comfort himself...Hahahaha, i almost lost my coffee on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niceguy Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 it's easy to underestimate the importance of a solid drummer. a great drummer makes all the difference. either your drummer improves or you get used to the idea that she's the limiting factor in your music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 Well I definitely won't argue that if you want to progress as a band on a professional level and ANY member is holding you back for whatever reason, and can't get it together, then the boot is totally called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted March 25, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 25, 2008 Can someone bring this thread back to the one!The question is not about how to have fun with a totally awesome drummer, but how to cope with a crap one! {censored} her, the bassist won't want her anymore, get new drummer, be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 LOL....not a chance! Almost every guitarist I've ever met thinks he can jump on the drums and in your words "hold" a groove. Most never even realize they are all over the place although they think they are even. Do me a favor. Go play a 4/4 for like twenty or thirty bars at about what you think is 110bpm and RECORD your self.....play it back and tell me if you still feel that way. If it's clean then you can consider yourself a drummer. Better yet post the sound clip here and let the board be the judge! i disagreesome people are just phuckin phunkyi've jammed with a lot of different people over the years... and i've seen really good players waste a lot of time with drummers with timing issuesbeing able to hold down a basic beat is nowhere near as difficult as you make it out to be... for some... myself included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 {censored} her, the bassist won't want her anymore, get new drummer, be good Sean, you bad like Jesse James ... By the way, one reason drummers adore me (apart from my almost supernatural ability to lock into a groove) is that I KNOW I can't play drums and therefore NEVER get on their kit during rehearsal breaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 Again that ability is learned...not natural... ever seen two people on the dance floor and one has a natural sense of rhythm and the other doesn't? which of the two would find it easier to play drums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted March 25, 2008 Moderators Share Posted March 25, 2008 We all know, at least those of us that've been around the block a few times, the chances of this drummer getting any better are remote at best. I mean we all like the notion that practice will make you better and all that but for a person holding down a day job? I myself have just never seen it. I can't say it never happens but I personally have just never actually seen it with my own two eyes.I trying to understand what you're saying here. That someone who works a day job has little or no chance of practicing and improving at their instrument?Seriously, I'm trying to get you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted March 25, 2008 Members Share Posted March 25, 2008 Tell your bassist that he'll have to help her practice rhythm... In bed. If he's not willing, you'll have to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 ever seen two people on the dance floor and one has a natural sense of rhythm and the other doesn't?which of the two would find it easier to play drums? all the good dancers I know took lessons. As for which one the answer is neither. Dancing is not drumming and neither is being able to tap 1/4 notes with your foot while playing guitar. This is the falacy alot of the guitarist I was talking about earlier get into. They think cause they can follow rythm in a song by tapping a foot or a hand or maybe even both at the same time, they can play drums. But they usually have no idea about things like proper grip of the stick, posture, proper arm motion, proper impact of the stick on the head, not to mention bouncing of the stick, proper bass drum technique so your not digging the beater into the head and choking the sound, proper and constant pressure of the hihat to maintain a sound that doesn't fluctuate from crisp to sloshy at the same time as your bass drum technique. It's exactly when these things are not in place you end up with the type of drummers you are all complaining about. And one more time...it's not natural....it all needs to be learned. And anyone can....given the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 Sean, you bad like Jesse James ...By the way, one reason drummers adore me (apart from my almost supernatural ability to lock into a groove) is that I KNOW I can't play drums and therefore NEVER get on their kit during rehearsal breaks You know I never really had a huge problem with the few guys I've played with doing that....As long as they didn't hit too hard,,,,,probably because I was all over their guitars at the same time... Hell sometimes we'd even jam out REALLY crappy songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ItchyFingers Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 Our drummer has as much sense of rhythm as a strange attractor.However, she provides a certain level of comfort to our bass/keyboard player who is rather good.Is there any way in the world a band can get by with a drummer who can't keep time?What to do? Sounds to me like Walford is really Jack White! In all seriousness, if your bass player doesn't mind the pocket moving all around, maybe you should start having sex with the drummer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 all the good dancers I know took lessons.As for which one the answer is neither. Dancing is not drumming and neither is being able to tap 1/4 notes with your foot while playing guitar. This is the falacy alot of the guitarist I was talking about earlier get into. They think cause they can follow rythm in a song by tapping a foot or a hand or maybe even both at the same time, they can play drums.But they usually have no idea about things like proper grip of the stick, posture, proper arm motion, proper impact of the stick on the head, not to mention bouncing of the stick, proper bass drum technique so your not digging the beater into the head and choking the sound, proper and constant pressure of the hihat to maintain a sound that doesn't fluctuate from crisp to sloshy at the same time as your bass drum technique. It's exactly when these things are not in place you end up with the type of drummers you are all complaining about. And one more time...it's not natural....it all needs to be learned. And anyone can....given the time. this thread is talking about timing... you seem to think there is no such thing as people with natural rhythm... i find that utterly ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 9-Pin-Phoenix Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 There was a band I saw where the drummer played the entire set to a click track on a set of headphones. I am sure the casual listener in the audience never noticed, other than the break inbetween every song to change the tempo. I admired this band because the descovered as a group that if the drummer played to a click THE ENTIRE BAND sounded better. It was a revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members balthazarr Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 his thread is talking about timing... you seem to think there is no such thing as people with natural rhythm... i find that utterly ridiculous Even elephants have natural rhythm. It's been reiterated too many times worth counting in this thread, she either practices or she leaves. Seems to me it doesn't require a 5 page thread to determine this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhr74 Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 One thing to mention however; practice makes perfect. Maybe your drummer just needs to smarten up and start practicing.Get thy drummer a metronome after a dose of constructive criticism that's as gentle as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members golias Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 If you are truly stuck with this drummer, you're going to have to sit down with her and have a bit of a heart-to-heart: "Look. You are our drummer for as long as you want to be our drummer and as long as we are still a band. For better or worse, you're in charge of most of the time-keeping, and that's not going to change. However, that means that we're going to sound terrible unless you get a lot better, very quickly. Let's see what we can do to make that happen, shall we?" If you can't resolve things, one way or another, with a conversation that starts out along those lines, time to pack it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 69cutty Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 drums was the first thing i learned how to play, in a marching band setting of all things... no. if she cant keep time she's out. some people can drum, some cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members balthazarr Posted March 26, 2008 Members Share Posted March 26, 2008 drums was the first thing i learned how to play, in a marching band setting of all things... no. if she cant keep time she's out. some people can drum, some cant. Me too. I was a tenor drummer in HS and a snare drummer in the Bugle Corp while in USAF tech school. I remember the first time I tried playing.I beat on some cookie tins to music on my parents' stereo.Piece o' cake. (pun intended) Then a neighbor kid's Dad bought him a set along with bass and amp. I'd go over there and beat on his set for hours. Never owned my own, but I could still lay down some chops even today and it's been 20 years since I have. You just never forget how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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