Drummer - can't

[Schtang]

What is a strange attractor and what kind of sense of rhythm does it have? It could be pretty good, for all I know

 

A strange attractor is an element from the Chaos Theory, same as fractals.

 

An attractor is a set to which a dynamical system evolves after a long enough time. That is, points that get close enough to the attractor remain close even if slightly disturbed. Geometrically, an attractor can be a point, a curve, a manifold, or even a complicated set with a fractal structure known as a strange attractor. Describing the attractors of chaotic dynamical systems has been one of the achievements of chaos theory.

[Kevman]

drummers who cant keep time waste everybody's time.

[Burgess]

I trying to understand what you're saying here. That someone who works a day job has little or no chance of practicing and improving at their instrument? Seriously, I'm trying to get you.

I'm saying that real improvement on an instrument takes real practice. I'm not talking about little subtle improvement like where you can't play a part and you practice it until you get it. I'm talking about going from being a player that's of a certain caliber to one of a higher caliber. I'm talking about becoming a player that gets to sit at the big kids table.

I'm also saying that in my own experience of playing with casual bands for over 20 years I have never, not once, seen any player make any significant improvement. Mind you, that's not a complaint, that's just how it is. If I can't live with the caliber of player that's in the band I'm in then I won't be in that band. Mind you I've played with some fairly suspect players in my time and hell, I've been the suspect player myself before.

And as I stated earlier, I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying I've never seen it, ever, not once. What I have seen in fact is the player that auditions plays at the same level they do for the entire time they've been in the band. I've seen singers get a little better but basically the same voice they start with is the same voice they end up with. I've seen drummers get a little better but in reality it's more a matter of being more familiar and comfortable with the material. I've seen guitar players chops improve but more so refinement than revelations.

What the OP needs from his drummer is a quantum leap. We're talking about a drummer that can not keep a beat here. If they want her to go from that into one that can hold down the groove in an ensemble, that's what I would call a quantum leap, a major improvement. I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying I doubt it will happen and I personally have never actually seen that happen myself.

Again, back in the day when I was a full time musician I saw musician improve, saw them improve big time. I saw entire bands improve big time. But we're talking about musicians that music was their life. When we weren't gigging we were rehearsing and when we weren't rehearsing we were home practicing our instruments. We were playing all the time and when we weren't playing we were thinking about playing.

These days I have a full time job. My wife has a fulltime job. We have a household to maintain. We also must spend time to devote to our marriage as couples do. We're empty nesters so there are no kids to deal with but everyone else in my band is in my same situation plus they have kids to raise. There is no possible way anyone in my band can devote the time they would need to take their playing to the next to the level and still maintain their happy home. Our band has very few rules but the number one rule is family and job first. If family is involved then without question that band member is EXPECTED to fulfill that obligation before any band commitment, without question.

Basically I've been in these kind of casual bands since I've been playing as a hobbyist. Basically I've never seen anyone make any major improvements in their playing in this time, never. Mind you though I'm not complaining. I've been fortunate enough to play with a few badass mofos who really didn't need no improvement.

I hope that's a little clearer.

[doommeister]

Record the band. Listen back with a metronome playing. Easily convince everyone that the band can't keep time. Commit the whole band to nailing this down. Keep the drum part and bass part simple enough to keep the beat solid. In other words, no drum/bass solos between verses.

 

I used to open for Mylon LeFevre years back. He made his bassist and drummer rehearse every day with a metronome set at 60 and play quarter notes. That's hard.

[csm]

Burgess:

 

In terms of 'quantum leap' improvement ...

 

I was around for the London punk explosion of the mid-to-late 70s, and I saw some of the groups go from garage-band chuckleheads to genuine excellence within the space of months. The first time I saw The Clash, they were incapable of stopping, starting or changing chord within three seconds of each other. Barely a year later, they were one of the best and most exciting bands I'd ever seen in my life.

 

Admittedly, getting rid of their third guitarist, Keith Levene, helped, as did drafting in Topper Headon (a superb drummist and, at the time, the most experienced player in the group). But the band in general, and bassist Paul Simonon in particular -- who went from being a guy who had little stickers on his fretboard so that he could identify the notes to being a seriously powerful and inventive bassist -- grew from laughable to awesome in a matter of months. As did several other bands of that era.

 

As for the Pistols, who were headlining the night I first saw The Clash -- they were superb right from the start.

 

It CAN happen. But the player has to really WANT it to happen and work very hard indeed to make it happen, and it also requires major support from the other members of the band.

 

EDIT: And something of the sort even happened to me, many years ago. My band had been a quartet, and Johnny Guitar, our other guitarist, was a vastly more experienced player than I was, having been a veteran of two groups -- The Count Bishops and Dr Feelgood -- who'd gotten far further up the ladder than any bands of mine ever had: international tours, charting records, TV etc. However, the more successful Johnny got in his 'straight job', the less available he was for band stuff, and we almost stopped gigging as a result. Eventually, the rhythm section proposed to me that we should gig as a trio whenever Johnny wasn't around.

 

SCARY! The way we'd always worked was that I'd handle a few of the more straightforward solos, but that Johnny had always featherbedded me by doing the difficult stuff. Playing trio meant that I'd have to -- as you Amurkans say in your contree -- step up to the plate. I needed to pull out everything I knew and a few things I didn't to front the band for two sets a night without Johnny there to cover my ass.

 

Nevertheless, I did it, and I can honestly say I've never looked back. Now I'm happy to work without another guitarist, or even entirely solo.

 

Once again: if your drummer really WANTS to do it right, and unless she's entirely unmusical and utterly bereft of talent -- sghe will. With your support.