Is Buddhism a cult?

[deanmass]

OK..so....

 

I have been listening and reading lots of Buddhist 'stuff' lately, specifically, Pema Chodron, a Buddhist teacher. In doing this, I found myself online looking for a session with her, as she is 70, and possibly not teaching much soon. I stumbled on a job with one of the Buddhist organizations she teaches at, and read the job description, and found myself getting a little uncomfortable in the description, which, since I am trying to use the teachings to Buddhism to calm me, embrace or let pass fear/doubt, etc, gives me a bit of a conundrum.

 

What are YOUR thoughts?

 

To predefine my beliefs a bit, I consider myself an 'agnostic' by definition....Catholic by Baptism...(no wonder I am confused..

 

Ready? GO!

[LiveMusic]

...found myself getting a little uncomfortable in the description, which, since I am trying to use the teachings to Buddhism to calm me, embrace or let pass fear/doubt, etc, gives me a bit of a conundrum. What are YOUR thoughts? To predefine my beliefs a bit, I consider myself an 'agnostic' by definition....Catholic by Baptism...(no wonder I am confused.. Ready? GO!

 

Baptist by baptism, how could I possibly help you? Beats me. But they (buddhists) seem to have a lot going on. As opposed to the baptists.

 

Good luck. If you figure it out, please PM me.

[kylen]

Seems like a cool IT position with a little 'Spirit' as a bonus. Room & board too...I'd see if you can get $15-$20/hr out of 'em on top of that. You gotta live in theis World somehow regardless of what contstraints and parameters a particular orgainization might bring. Everybody from RAW to the NFL to life at a University to Life on the road has rules and regulations - ideas and philosophy's to nurture as well as instill fear and indecision. If you're not sure about it you won't know if it's a fit till you try it out anyway. Good Luck!

[awfulcase]

Sounds like a normal job description, except that last part.

My guess is that they just want to ensure that applicants know that this is a serene, monestary-like environvent, and will sleep on the premises.

This part is a little weird though:

 

Shambhala Mountain Center is the right place for you, if

[deanmass]

The last part is exactly what made me a bit uncomfortable.....

 

But, according to what I have interpreted so far, in a Buddhist mindset, embracing this discomfort and letting it pass through and then looking at the moment is what it is about. Sometimes, it all seems circular, but, a circle IS a direction..

 

I actually do think it sounds interesting....I do IT support now, and have really been feeling burnt out. The thing about meditation is not that scary, but subscribing to a dogma as a condition of employment IS. I aspire to be peaceful, calm, helpful, which anyone who knows me will tell you I can be, but I also get frustrated, snappy, etc. I know everyone has stress, but a recent divorce, 2 diabetic kids, and a sys admin job makes me feel crushed many days, so I look to almost anything positive to keep me moving forward. I DO wonder how peaceful Buddhist IT users are.. I also wonder how many are Windows, how many Mac, how many linux.. I think this job would be incredibly interesting for a multitude of reasons.

 

Remember in the South Park movie version of God was Buddhist? Hilarious...

[philbo]

Here is a quick view of this (for lack of a better word) sect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambhala

 

I don't know enough to say categorically that it is not a cult; I think it is not. But I get a feeling it is a bit monastic. They seem to be isolating themselves from the world to some degree, while paradoxically saying they are creating Enlightened Society - - maybe this means they are not trying to influence 'outside' society but rather make their own place of enlightenment.

 

Some people find it useful to leave the distractions of everyday life behind them to quest toward enlightenment. My own view is that:

 

1. People leaving their everyday lives tend to drag their problems along with them.

 

2. Any action causes an equal and opposite reaction; in particular, an extreme change in life can create an extreme stasis to follow.

 

3. An aware person can do well wherever they are; enlightenment is within you and without you and all about you. One need only look and the vision is there.

[Beck]

Any group that isolates itself regardless of core faith can be a cult. Nonetheless, you

[nice keetee]

Are you looking for a job, or religion?

[Antman261]

Buddhism itself isn't a cult. My encounters with it have never looked dangerous, but I guess people can always stick their fingers into something and turn it into something dangerous. My step dad is a buddhist and manages the IT department of a large corporate law firm.

 

*shrugs*

[veracohr]

Make a point to make sure that the job duties are separate from any spiritual considerations you may or may not wish to undertake. If you want the job, you should feel comfortable that you can do it without pressure to buy into the spiritual atmosphere.

 

But to answer your question, in general terms, no, Buddhism is not (necessarily) a cult. Like all religions, it started out with a good idea that got adopted by people who needed symbolism and dogma to feel comfortable with the spiritual concepts.

 

If you're uncomfortable with it, trust your gut. It's probably not right for you.

[Jotown]

Buddhism is no more of a cult than Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc.....

[deanmass]

LOL...Points taken and appreciated...

 

I understand, but, I am no where NEAR proclaiming a faith or practice...I am cherry picking the theist and non-theist tree. This post was presented as something naive, but I actually know quite a bit, I just wanted to elicit some opinions...

 

I have looked into my ancestral heritage (just a statement, not sarcasm...) and not really dug it too much. I have been very interested in theology since the late 80's, read alot, taken classes, etc. I do not like the history or structure of the Catholic Church. I believe the sacraments and many of the 'en masse' ceremonial functions are rooted in bad ideas/greed and violence ( get money, give money/be blessed and pass to heaven/etc.) although that is not necessarily their intent any longer, that is the history that they came from, which I think is further complicated by the pomp and circumstance of the church itself. The importance Catholisim puts on the Pope vs. the role of the Pastor/Rabbi are contrasts in royalty v

s. humble servitude and leadership/counseling.

 

As far as Christ goes, I believe he existed, I believe he was a healer and teacher, and I believe he was spiritual. I do not believe in the concept of original sin, I do not believe in the absolute validity of the bible as the word of 'God', however, I do find that Old Testament/Torah to be a bit more compelling than the new. I believe in the possibility that both/all were either divinely inspired OR the intent was to project something the individual felt strongly was divinely inspired.

 

All huge topics for a music board..

 

When I confine what I know to the Judeo-Christian branch, I identify with the Jewish religion more than any other, if for no other reason, then the history of the practices defined in Torah. The underlying meanings are more concrete, which makes sense, since they were written (supposedly) before. Many of the Torah laws are designed to protect the followers, examples being Kosher practice ( basic food prep sanitation/don't eat things that look bad), humility (sitting on low stools), etc. I also find Kabbalah very interesting, especially the idea of t-coon (phonetic) and their ideas of reincarnation. The numerical values of Hebrew characters is yet another thing that I find fascinating.

 

Reading Koran bothered me greatly, because, from what I gather in the translated version, ummm....crazy person writes book, people like it, etc....The violence, reward system...bothersome...Many, many problems with Islam....There is not much I have read regarding Islam that is attractive. I live near the largest population of Islam followers in the world outside the mid east, great people, great food, don't get the religion....too much based on fear/retribution/retaliation. I actually bought a 3 page laminated Islam 'guide' at Borders to get a handle on it, and it still bugged me.

 

Christianity, see above on beliefs, but, dad ( long estranged) is a member of a Christian Sect ( Brahnamism, William Marian Brahnam) and mom did a stint with 'Charismatic Christians' until they had picked the carcass of her divorce clean of resalable items.

 

Hindi? Elephants freak me out...especially blue ones....I like Hindu people alot though....they seem to be some of the most open/nice people I have met. I need to learn more about this one though...I will not go near that filthy river though....blech....

 

So, Buddhism seems more philosophy than religion to me, however, whenever there are conditions or restraints, my bull{censored} detector goes off, and I start looking for the drug dealer in the ice cream truck so to speak..I was fantasizing about the possibilities of 'being' that person, i that place, that job, thinking it would be a good experience overall, but, the isolation might have dark side. Got me thinking Jim Jones, etc....thus, I posted...

 

All good discussion...I love talking about this stuff.

[elsongs]

Buddhism's been around for thousands of years...it's not a cult. That being said, all religions have certain smaller offshoots that might make claim to be part of a certain faith tradition, but in reality are cults themselves.

 

I know there will be a bunch of folks posting predicable, cliche attacks on religion in general. But for people outside the excesses of the developed world, religion isn't some "self-help program" where people demand the "What's in it for me?" aspect...it's a culture. And if you don't get that, then you don't really understand culture. 90% of atheists are white people - people who lack a real culture - and that is no coincidence.

[Ernest Buckley]

Any thought movement is a cult. Once its membership increases like in the millions, its considered a religion. Nothing wrong with any of that as long as no one gets hurt but it really is a fine line. Buddhism is probably the least religious of all "religions".

[Antman261]

 

So, Buddhism seems more philosophy than religion to me

 

 

Bingo! Anyone that says they're a buddhist should mean that they hold a certain philosophy. I certainly wouldn't think of it as a religion.

[John Sayers]

 

Bingo! Anyone that says they're a buddhist should mean that they hold a certain philosophy. I certainly wouldn't think of it as a religion.

 

 

tell that to a tibetan mother who has just had her 7 year old taken away from her so he can study at a monastery and become a Buddhist.

[snd4c]

On the religion side this video has "Enlightend" me.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

I posted it over at the political section too because after 30 minutes it talks about conspiracies and {censored} but the first 30minutes are intresting enough.

 

Let me just advise you to skip the first 5 minutes.

[Beck]

 

I have looked into my ancestral heritage (just a statement, not sarcasm...) and not really dug it too much. I have been very interested in theology since the late 80's, read alot, taken classes, etc. I do not like the history or structure of the Catholic Church. I believe the sacraments and many of the 'en masse' ceremonial functions are rooted in bad ideas/greed and violence ( get money, give money/be blessed and pass to heaven/etc.) although that is not necessarily their intent any longer, that is the history that they came from, which I think is further complicated by the pomp and circumstance of the church itself

 

 

 

Look even deeper into pre-Catholic Christianity. Start at the beginning. Christianity is ancient, originally a sect of Judaism. Peter, Paul, Mary and Jesus were Jews. If you want to go for a wild ride, start there and you

[Antman261]

Well my experience of buddhism is that it's compatible with other faiths, you could be christian, and still follow buddhist teachings. And John I was talking more in the context of contemporary western culture. But you're right, I certainly didn't make that comment with the full extent of it's practice throughout the world in mind.

[murvyn]

I was raised a Calvinist. After years of searching for answers in other theologies and religious ideas, I realized that I was predestined to be a Calvinist and there's no use in fighting it.

 

Calvinist values are ingrained in the soul of America - it's sad to see the Charismatic and Evangelical "Heath & Wealth" cults suck America's soul dry. Some day maybe Calvinist ideas will make a comeback. I hope so, it's really disheartening watching these foolish people fighting their true nature. I think it damages a person mentally when he denies what he is. We need to learn to embrace how we were made.

[OldCrankyDouche]

 

Buddhism is no more of a cult than Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc.....

 

 

QFT. Buddhism is probably LESS of a cult than those mentioned. Not intended to offend, and Im not stereotyping everyone that falls into those categories, but there are many people out there that could be "cultists".

[blue2blue]

OK..so.... I have been listening and reading lots of Buddhist 'stuff' lately, specifically, Pema Chodron, a Buddhist teacher. In doing this, I found myself online looking for a session with her, as she is 70, and possibly not teaching much soon. I stumbled on a job with one of the Buddhist organizations she teaches at, and read the job description, and found myself getting a little uncomfortable in the description, which, since I am trying to use the teachings to Buddhism to calm me, embrace or let pass fear/doubt, etc, gives me a bit of a conundrum. What are YOUR thoughts? To predefine my beliefs a bit, I consider myself an 'agnostic' by definition....Catholic by Baptism...(no wonder I am confused.. Ready? GO!

 

Without weighing in on particular organizations:

 

Is Christianity a cult?

 

Not by any definition of the word cult I know or accept.

 

Are there individual Christian organizations that are cult-like?

 

 

I think you'll find there are organizations that would easily fall under most folks' definition of cult or cult-like which ostensibly attach themselves to the teachings of Buddha and yet engage in practices which seem to stand in contrast to the Buddha's teachings -- just as there are "Christian" organizations that would similarly try to use Christianity for their own ends.

 

 

Now, that said, there are definitely legitimate strains of Buddhism which emphasize asecticism and self-denial as a path to try to understand divinity (as the Buddha renounced earthly pleasures and goods in his later life).

 

Just as some "Christian" organizations with more than humility on their mind have used Jesus' teaching to denude their flocks of earthly wealth, it seems there are some "Buddhist" organizations that seem to similarly manipulate their own.

 

 

And -- get this -- there are even "prospertity churches" within greater world of Buddhist-influenced or -professing organizations... Say a special chant and get the material things you want... It'd seem surprising if we hadn't seen such similar and often wide-spread perversions in the western/Christian world, as well.

 

 

PS... I haven't read all the other responses, so I don't know if this was mentioned, but there is one problem with the job offer: It's tied to religious belief. And while the court's interpretation on this seems to be evolving, it's a red flag for proper employment practices.

[UstadKhanAli]

I'm only slightly familiar with the Shambhala Mountain Center, but haven't heard anything bad or "cultish" about them.

 

Regarding the isolation, well, it's a mountain RETREAT center, although they do have a very large conference area, so there will be a fair amount of people going through there.

 

As far as the description at the bottom of the job page, a lot of retreats, Buddhist or not, have things like that written there...and it's just as much about being a retreat as it is about being a Buddhist center...in other words, they want people who are more contemplative, and not people who are loud, party, or crank the stereo or TV constantly.

 

According to their website:

Shambhala tradition: According to this tradition, the basis of enlightened society is the understanding that human beings inherently possess wisdom, compassion and goodness. In many cultures throughout history these qualities have been nurtured through meditation and contemplative disciplines.

 

Since Buddhists never seem to be rigid or dogmatic about their practice, and this above description sounds quite great, I'd say that there's no worries.

 

I've been to a LOT of Buddhist countries, monasteries, gompas, temples, retreats, mountain sanctuaries, etc., and have never ever once found any place to be rigid, dogmatic, "cultish" or anything. No, on the contrary, the places have always been gentle, quiet, open, and peaceful.

[UstadKhanAli]

QFT. Buddhism is probably LESS of a cult than those mentioned. Not intended to offend, and Im not stereotyping everyone that falls into those categories, but there are many people out there that could be "cultists".

 

Buddhists do not "recruit" new followers, which in my opinion would alone make it less of a cult than religions that do recruit.

 

They're happy if you participate, but are definitely okay with it if you don't.

 

Since Shambhala Mountain Center is a retreat, about the only thing they don't want is for you to be loud, rude, or party or play music loud. It's a retreat where people meditate, so one could see the wisdom in that!

 

I wouldn't give any concern to that description, personally. They're not even going to check to see whether you meditate or not (note the word "aspiration" to meditate).

[Tedster]

Without having read the prior replies...

 

Buddhism is one of the major world religions. Buddhism is not a cult.

 

However...very few cults do something completely new. Most cults seem to build on an existing religion. We, in the US, are just more familiar with cults that build on Christianity. For example, that whole Jonestown thing in the 70s started with a "Christian" preacher, who realized he was very charismatic, and began twisting Biblical doctrine to suit his own purposes.

 

It only follows that any major world religion is open to "bastardization" by those who seek their own gain. So, to find that someone has started a "Buddhist" sect with cultlike characteristics is not suprising.