Mac OS X Leopard is out. Do you care?

[alphajerk]

 

I'm not at all religious regarding OS's, it's just from practical usage and observation. But I must say that OSX is a case of MS envy is pretty funny.

 

 

might seem funny, but a lot of what they are doing now is pretty much behind the curve to MS. the only time i upgrade OS is when i am forced to for 3rd party applications to function. my mac will stay stuck at tiger probably for the rest of its life, unless a new mac forces me to update it enough to be compatible with it, but that seems unlikely right now that they finally got the networking in passable condition.

 

its going to be currious to see what zune 80 offers, if there is indeed a DRM lock on it, i never played with the original. i dont use iTunes on my PC's since its a piece of dog {censored} on them... only on my Macs.

[franknputer]

just like their ads... such misinformation. like i said before, i wish both companies would release as real OS, no BS. get rid of all the i{censored}.

 

:lol:

 

OK, seriously - how much is MS paying you to post all this fanboyism?

[alphajerk]

and WTF is wrong with Vista b2b? how much have you played with it? im finding the biz version less bloated than XP [which i always had to switch to classic mode... finally they have a decent interface] and does numerous things far better than XP, installs with less on it that you dont have to remove... and unless you are using XP64pro, im very much looking foward here in the near future of retarded amounts of RAM shoved in the machines and being able to access it all.

[alphajerk]

:lol: OK, seriously - how much is MS paying you to post all this fanboyism?

 

its just reality... no fanboyism. i run, and have been running both platforms side by side for as long as they both have been out, and running apples before there ever was a GUI. apple has just made numerous mistakes in the past few years with their computers [which includes both hardware and the os] probably from being too consumed with their other i{censored}.

 

vista is far from perfect right now, but its just in its initial release. it has lots of potential in it.... but they dont throw the baby out with the bathwater like jobs like to do.

[macmoondoggie]

Oh man, that goes without saying. DEFINITELY an OS that you'll want to run on a Core Duo. Did I mention I how much I love my new 2.4GHz MBP? If I did, I'll do it again.

 

Leopard is running beautifully on my G5 PPC. My apps all work fine and even my M-Audio Delta 1010lt works perfectly. So this is DEFINITELY an OS you can run even if you don't have a Core Duo.

[macmoondoggie]

and does numerous things far better than XP, installs with less on it that you dont have to remove... and unless you are using XP64pro, im very much looking foward here in the near future of retarded amounts of RAM shoved in the machines and being able to access it all.

 

Seriously, this thread is about Leopard. Why do you feel you have something to add?

[Beck]

I wouldn

[Jeff da Weasel]

So this is DEFINITELY an OS you can run even if you don't have a Core Duo.

 

Well, Tiger runs like crap on my MDD G4. Will Leopard be better?

 

Don't answer: rhetorical question.

[Zooey]

What I want in an operating system is a stable platform for my applications to run on.

 

What Apple wants in an operating system is something that will compel users to upgrade their hardware.

[blue2blue]

Indications are that MS has now shifted its focus from Apple-envy to Google-envy. They're throwing crazy amounts of money into playing catch up with them. They've really strayed.

 

Yeah... going in I had an entirely different conception of what Ballmer would bring. He's was a great disappointment to me. (I must have thought anyone with such extraordinarily bad social skills must surely be a geek's geek. Pfah.)

 

Clearly, whatever else wants to say about Gates, MS seemed to be a lot more in touch with who they were as a company and their place in the world 10 or 15 years ago -- I'm thinking the Win 95-XP 'generation' of upper level guys at MS.

 

It was a great period for the company, I think, in terms of product and growing not just marketshare -- but mindshare.

 

When Win 95 was introduced, computers of any type were seen as either tools or toys of technological and economic elites.

 

But by the time XP was being sent off to the rest home by the restless relatives in Redmond, the personal computer was (to varying degrees) ingrained in the lifestyle and mindset of most Americans.

 

Just think about how sheepish (or defiant) those last few folks (under 70) are who profess they don't have a computer or know anything about them... Just think about the everyday place of computers on TV where 15 years ago they were still treated as exotic technology and clearly little understood by TV and movie scriptwriters. [Well, of course, they didn't understand computers. All those guys had Macintoshes! -- I just thought I'd get that in so alphajerk didn't have to. ]

[phaeton]

Hey alphajerk,

 

Which Microsoft-stolen features do you see here?

 

 

 

 

 

New ideas come from many places.

[amplayer]

Well, Tiger runs like crap on my MDD G4. Will Leopard be better? Don't answer: rhetorical question.

 

Tiger runs great on my G4 laptop and also my G5 desktop. What's MDD? How specifically is Tiger to blame?

[seclusion]

Hmm, I loaded Leopard on another HD I had sitting on my desk. Migrated everything over and so far Ivory doesn't work. Other then that everything is working. Took about 2 hours to figure out which AU was crashing Logic, funny that Ivory passed validation but crashed Logic.

But ya I just plugged in my USB HD and Leo asked me if I wanted to use Time Machine on that drive, I said yes and it backed up while I was playing a tune in Logic back. No hickups, nadda! Couple of things that don't quite seem right but ya it's only been out a week!

A couple of plugs did need to be reauthorized but worked fine after.

Really a painless update!.

I wouldn't do a update of Tiger and wreck that drive.

Spaces is nice, I like F9 when the lights are off.

Lots of good stuff in there.

When I'm working on songs I'm using Tiger though, still a bit nervous.

Really I want to do a total fresh install of everything. Then I may totally jump to Leopard permanent

Later

[Def_Pearl_Pilot]

 

probably from being too consumed with their other i{censored}. vista is far from perfect right now, but its just in its initial release. it has lots of potential in it.... but they dont throw the baby out with the bathwater like jobs like to do.

 

 

I've been on Windows since I got my first computer around 91 or 92. I bought my first Mac about a year ago and I just bought my second a few days ago. All this "i{censored}" as you call it is.... EASY! The funny thing is that before I got a Mac myself, I always wondered what people meant by "It just works." And that's how my experience has been.

 

For the record, I like Vista as well. But Mac OS does it for me.

[alphajerk]

take off another 10 years since you have been using windows and i still have been using both platforms.

 

MDD= mirror double door G4 [second rev of the G4]

 

i used to beat up on MS all the time should any of you all care to check my posts from 7+ years ago. it wasnt until XP really matured that i took a good liking to it.... and that wasnt in the first release/year of it. although i do still have to run it in classic mode because otherwise it looks like a tinkertoy OS.

 

big three things for me with Mac was:

1] OSX requiring a complete rewrite of EVERYTHING, and the subsequent [paid] upgrades to an unfunctional OS to Tiger where it finally became useful.

2] PCIe adoption w/o PCI legacy support rendering my soundcard useless on new macs even though no company at the time had PCIe soundcards available.

3] the move to intel chips showed how dependant the software is on the hardware to even work properly... and the multiple versions of 3rd party applications that had to be rewritten once again to function properly.

 

 

oh and i have used Macs long enough not to be fooled into "they just work"... because they dont always. i used to get people calling me all the time to troubleshoot their Macs.

[Def_Pearl_Pilot]

 

the move to intel chips showed how dependant the software is on the hardware to even work properly... and the multiple versions of 3rd party applications that had to be rewritten once again to function properly. oh and i have used Macs long enough not to be fooled into "they just work"... because they dont always. i used to get people calling me all the time to troubleshoot their Macs.

 

 

MS didn't do much better with VISTA. Visual Studio .NET didn't even work with Vista when it first came out! This is what developers are supposed to use to write Windows apps!! LOL

 

Operating systems are very closely tied to the underlying hardware. It's the nature of the beast. I'd say it's easier to abstract applications for different OSes than it is to abstract OSes for different hardware(that is primarily CPU and other onboard chipsets although EFI is helping in that regard).

[Rabid]

Well, Vista has turned into a major headach in the workplace. Our accounting package is Microsoft Great Plains Dynamics. It does not like Vista. Will not run at all on Vista Home. Has major issues with Vista Business. There are some work arounds to get it to install but even then it will not run the auto tax updates. We are buying Vista computers because that is all that is available, and then wipping them and installing Windows 2000 or XP Pro. That is all we really need in the workplace, and Microsoft programs work on Windows 2000 and XP Pro.

 

You would think that Microsoft would get their on major business programs to work on Vista.

 

Now back to Mac. Just installed Logic 8 on my Mac Pro. Ordered a copy of the new OS but it is going on an external boot drive. I have at least two software synths that do not like the new OS and I am not giving them up.

 

Robert

[alphajerk]

dont you just love upgrades? i am holding my corporate clients off on vista for a while, 6mo at LEAST. until i feel its stable on my test machines here for certain.

[amplayer]

 

oh and i have used Macs long enough not to be fooled into "they just work"... because they dont always.

 

 

I agree fully. Certainly, for people doing audio/MIDI/video work, problems do arise on any computer, even the Mac. I have had numerous issues with 3rd party music/audio interface hardware causing instabilities on the Mac. Even now, I use an Apogee Ensemble, and it causes problems with Logic Studio. Plus, the Apogee Firewire driver is not the best.

 

One thing the Mac does have going for it though, is that since you can't build your own, all the stuff inside the machine generally works together well. OTOH, that also means Macs generally can not be upgraded, meaning the overall price of ownership is higher over time.

[Jeff da Weasel]

I love the hell out of my Macs. Over the course of time, I've used a Mac Classic (MC68000), a Centris 610 (MC68LC040), a Quadra 650 (MC68040), a PowerBook 540c (MC68LC040), a Power Macintosh 8600 (PowerPC 604e), an iMac (PowerPC 750), a Power Macintosh G3 blue/white (PowerPC 750), and my current two Macs... a PowerMac G4 (PowerPC 7455) and my new baby, the MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo).

 

So, I've been through it all. Motorola... IBM... Intel. I've used every OS from System 4.1 to 6.0.8 to 7.6.1 to 8.6 to 9.2.3 to OS X 10.1, 10.3.9, to 10.4.1. And of course I'll eventually have Leopard on this machine as well.

 

But I've never, ever been the first kid on the block with a new OS. I'll leave that to you adventurous types, cause if my machine screws up in any way, I have no job, and no money, and no food, and no home. So it's no small deal for me to use a new OS on a whim.

[blue2blue]

... But I've never, ever been the first kid on the block with a new OS. I'll leave that to you adventurous types, cause if my machine screws up in any way, I have no job, and no money, and no food, and no home. So it's no small deal for me to use a new OS on a whim.

 

My feelings exactly about OS's and important business application platforms.

 

One day I got a frantic call from a database client. "All" his machines had suddenly gone whack...

 

Probing questions revealed no easy culprits. I hadn't made any changes to the code base in a while.

 

Reluctantly I climbed in my car and drove up the freeway to their facility.

 

When I got there I tried a couple machines and couldn't duplicate the bad behavior. Finally I tried the boss's machine (who was they guy who called) and found that it did exactly what he said.

 

At first I was stumped. I found one other machine out of the seven on their small network that was similarly hosed.

 

I figured there was something different about these two machines. (The system was set up so that an Access client with the application code ran locally and accessed a linked server database. But all the local code was the same build.)

 

Since the pseudo-compiled codebase was the same, I figured it had to be the local copies of Access.

 

Sure enough, the two miscreant workstations had Access 2003 instead of Access 2000, as all the other machines had.

 

The customer had forgotten to tell me (though I asked him if there'd been any changes to the system) that his network consultant had "upgraded" two workstations.

 

The change in Access that hoisted me was no doubt documented SOMEwhere in the wilder-chaos of MS-land -- but I never found that documentation. I came up with my own workaround and left a veiled but somewhat pointed note about making changes to the system without notifying me (it was now late in the second shift and the office staff had long gone).

 

 

I think that's the ONLY thing that the update broke (IIRC) and, like I said, it wasn't even well documented (or documented at all) but it brought the whole data system to a halt and forced a number of hours of work that should have cost the customer a lot more than it did. (We have a very long relationship that is carefully nourished.)

[Anderton]

I'll go with Leopard at some point, probably when I get an Intel Mac, which I'll need to get at some point I'm still happy with the dual G5.

 

Regarding Vista...so far, so good but I'm working with a VERY limited application set (Sonar and a couple others) and still working my way around it. I'm sure I'll find the speed bumps before too long.

 

As to Jeff's comments about upgrading, I've found that the only solution that works for me (and unfortunately, it's costly) is to get a new computer if there's a major OS update, and migrate stuff over a piece at a time. This is problematic with some copy protection schemes, though, as I can't have something installed on two machines at the same time...

 

Overall, I love using computers but the amount of time I've had to spend maintaining them has gone up exponentially over the years. Life was much simpler with my Mac IIci

[blue2blue]

Uh oh... this just popped up in Google News:

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,139140-c,macos/article.html

 

Wireless Slowly Dies After Leopard Upgrade, Users Report Mac users are reporting a number of problems with their wireless connections after updating to Leopard, according to traffic on Apple's support forums.

_________________________

 

... Overall, I love using computers but the amount of time I've had to spend maintaining them has gone up exponentially over the years. Life was much simpler with my Mac IIci

 

 

On the computer maintenance front -- I have to say I do FAR, FAR less maintenance... It's almost a non-issue at this point. (At least in comparison to ten or fifteen years ago!) And I use my machines for not just audio production but web design, business database application design (requiring me to sometimes run SQL server!), graphics, and some light video editing.

 

Most of my "maintenance" is just not doing foolhardy things. I don't run AV background scanning so I'm somewhat careful about where I go and what I do (and learned the almost-hard way to do all my browsing in Firefox, which may have security holes [it does] but which is simply not targetted like IE).

 

Maybe I'm just lucky (no UAD cards, etc, or other quirky hardware/drivers to complicate my life) but when I read folks talk about all the problems they have with (both) platforms I wonder how come they have so many problems (and then I touch wood to help ground out any cosmic irony lightning bolts from the blue... hopefully ).

 

I'm hanging on to XP as long as I can. I don't know if I can make it to the scheduled release of Windows 7 in 2010 but that's the current goal. Of course, they claim it will have a lean, mean, completely redesigned core now... but we'll see what happens when the suits start getting their grubby hands all over the OS and GUI.

 

With XP support extended to 2014, at least I have a glimmer of a fall back plan... At least by then, I expect to finally have my long-promised flying car...

[alphajerk]

But I've never, ever been the first kid on the block with a new OS. I'll leave that to you adventurous types, cause if my machine screws up in any way, I have no job, and no money, and no food, and no home. So it's no small deal for me to use a new OS on a whim.

 

unfortunately, i have to be the first [even as betas] to have an OS up and running so i can have a job [one of them anyway] to make money, feed my family, etc.. i have to figure it out before it gets deployed to the public at large.

[alphajerk]

Overall, I love using computers but the amount of time I've had to spend maintaining them has gone up exponentially over the years. Life was much simpler with my Mac IIci

 

i dont count in the time i get paid to fix machines, but on my own machines i spend very little time with "fixing" them. i finally have abused my one XP machine that i am going to redo it... and that will be a big headache with all the software on it, but i will rebuild it to a seperate HDD so i can keep working on the old system until i get the other up fully [also doing a Vista 64bit partition on it as well and see how far i can have everything run on that].

 

the other big thing once i get the new XP up and running with all the applications is to image it for easy restoration. i did it once prior but went through so many changes trying different things out on the old install, there is too much junk on it and needs a clean install.

 

the biggest culprits for {censored}ing machines up are the yahoo/myspace/et al IM things, realplayer, and other "personal" applications the workers like to put on their machine.