America Nearing Its End?

[blue2blue]

 

I know several people who are Iranian-Americans with relatives in the old country. They say that this guy Ahmadinejad actually has no real power in the way their government is structured and he is nothing more than a mouthpiece. I have no idea if that's true, but he is really a goofy idiot. In the 1930's Shah Reza Pahlavi established close ties with Nazi Germany and was a stalwart admirer of Hitler and the concept of the Aryan master race. The Shah went on to ask the international community to use the native name of "Iran" in 1935 to address his country, which in Persian means 'Land of the Aryans' The country had been known as Iran to the native people themselves for many centuries, but Westerners came to refer to the nation as Persia. During the early 1930s, Iranian Police General Sar-lashgar Mohammad Hosein Ayrom made considerable effort to model Iran's Security Police after the Gestapo. When the Shah was forced out in 1941, he escaped to Nazi Germany and became a member of Hitler's SS. There are some figures in Iranian history who played a role in the Holocaust and now they deny it.

 

 

And let's not forget just who put the Shah back in power in a coup after "democracy broke out" in Iran in the early 50's: the US Government who, under CIA honcho Kermit Roosevelt, Jr., engineered both a failed coup and then a successful one.

 

The US government was just about the Shah's only friend at the end of his bitter and brutal reign that ended in 1979 with the Iranian Revolution.

 

The progress toward democracy subsequent to the revolution can be debated -- but Iranians do elect the members of their secular government, even if the religious leadership still have a great deal of practical power.

[the stranger]

Up until a few month ago "accounting" might have been the answer. Now? ...

 

That's funny {censored}, man.

[Billster]

That's funny {censored}, man.

 

Plagiarized. Saw in the op-ed pages...three months ago.

[UstadKhanAli]

[MichaelSaulnier]

Throughout history, it's been almost impossible for the people living through the times to know the precise moment when their

[Anderton]

Very well said and thought-provoking. I feel that all the rules are changing, and we have no idea where that will eventually take us.

 

One thing is for sure: When you look at the earth from space, there are no little lines separating nations. I think that, in fits and starts, we're moving toward that erasure of lines becoming a physical reality.

 

I remember when there were serious borders between European nations; I had to go through customs even if, as a 10-year-old, I bicycled from Switzerland into France. Those borders are on their way to becoming relics. Maybe the rest of the world will follow suit.

 

When I see how my daughter thinks, I have a lot of hope for the future.

[MichaelSaulnier]

It's funny that you said the part about how the Earth looks from space...

 

I was going to add a bit in my post about how in Science Fiction writing, particularly the futurist view of the StarTrek universe, it was the knowledge that the Earth was just one of the universe's many civilizations that ultimately brought the people of Earth together.

 

Much like how, when presented with an "emergency" like 9/11 or to a lesser extent the current fear of economic meltdown of the financial system... you hear the calls of "country before party" and there is actual cooperation for some time period.

 

I know many view "one-world", "one government" as the ultimate evil... and certainly the majority of people alive today retain a VERY nationalistic world view... but nationalism is a human construct, not an inevitability.

 

Perhaps some sort of outside threat or knowledge will radically change things.

 

M

[UstadKhanAli]

For example, for many former empires, it was all about territory and the wealth to be gained by controlling that territory . You could literally see the borders of the Roman Empire expand and then shrink... and that was a clear symbol of its changing dominance in the world. Same with the British Empire, Napoleon's France, Hitler's Germany, the Ottoman Empire, etc.

 

I had this thought, too, that much of the power of the British and the Spanish in the last century derived from their strong navies and control over waterways.

 

And after that, much of the power of the United States derived from the control of oil, sometimes through corporate interests.

 

And what I am wondering about is what might be the next thing to control that might give a country power? I don't know that it's accounting...

 

Now, I freely admit that I could be wrong about this, although it doesn't seem too far off.

 

Regardless, interesting post, Michael.

[Anderton]

I've often said that the single most important thing that has happened in my life was when that photo of earth from space came out in the 60s. Sure, we all knew we were on a dinky little planet in the middle of nowhere, but that PROVED it to us. I really think that photo changed the world forever.

[MichaelSaulnier]

Of course you KNOW that was all faked by the US government.

 

The planet is in fact FLAT.

 

 

 

M

[UstadKhanAli]

And held up by elephants. On the back of a turtle.

 

[Anderton]

And no one has addressed my point about how countries that used to have empires have a better club scene. I think that's the really important thing here.

[MichaelSaulnier]

LOL!

 

I think my religion may have an objection to showing any picture of the "Turtle"...

 

I have to consult the "holy texts"...

 

M

[MichaelSaulnier]

 

And no one has addressed my point about how countries that used to have empires have a better club scene. I think that's the really important thing here.

 

 

I think this goes without saying...

 

Those "Inca Empire" clubs...

 

They're just plain... FREAKY!

 

M

[UstadKhanAli]

 

And no one has addressed my point about how countries that used to have empires have a better club scene. I think that's the really important thing here.

 

 

Hmmmm...lessee...Japan, Spain, Germany, England....

 

I think you may have something here!!

[Dean Roddey]

People have to keep in mind that a lot of what is happening is not America falling. It's the rest of the world finally recovering from the decades and decades of failure and war and moving back up. WWII gave us an advantage that was not normal, but people came to accept it as normal. The rest of the world destroyed itself for the most part while we developed a huge industrial capacity in order to help win that war.

 

This left us in a position that couldn't be sustained long term. That even we shouldn't want to sustain long term. As mentioned above, our options were to use that power to control the rest of the planet, or continue to move forward some other way. We didn't go the military way, rightly, so the only way we can move upwards is if the rest of the world moves upwards so that we can do business with them.

 

Even having said all that, the situation we are in now is so laughably far from the worst we've seen that's not even worth considering. People think that the things that happen in their time must be the worst thing that ever happened, but it's not even close. The Depression was so much worse than this that you cannot even see one from the other, even if you climbed up on top of the mountain of debt to look.

 

And, though I don't begin to doubt the infinite capacity of our people for stupidity and ignorance, I don't think it's any worse than it's ever been or any worse than any other country. It just looks worse becase we are closer to our modern stupidity than we are to the stupidity of old. Of course one difference is that we now have bigger and better tools for people to take advantage of that stupidity. OTOH, we also have bigger and better tools such as this to speak directly to each other and by pass any control of the flow of opinion and information.

 

And the thing that always kind of confuses me is that, we just had one of these crises in the 80s, and everyone said the end was near. But a decade later we were on top of the world. Now that we have another one, no one ever seems to get that it's cyclical and that we'll be back on top of the world again at some point, and then down again, etc... It's just the nature of a feedback system like the world economy. It's going to oscillate.

 

It would be nice if, when we were on the upswing that we exercised some common sense and spent less and saved more. Then the down cycle would be not much more than a blip. But, that's one of those places where modern stupidity is still made just as well as the classic stuff.

 

I think that the upcoming change in administration may go along way towards making our situation better. Not because the new folks are inherently any smarter than the old, but just because any change would make the rest of the world a lot more comfortable and would help us put behind us the mistakes of the current administration. A lot of our 'wealth' historically has been in the form of the trust of other nations as an honest broker without territorial ambitions. We've lost a lot of that over the last 8 years, and hopefully we can start rebuilding that stash a bit.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

People have to keep in mind that a lot of what is happening is not America falling. It's the rest of the world finally recovering from the decades and decades of failure and war and moving back up. WWII gave us an advantage that was not normal, but people came to accept it as normal. The rest of the world destroyed itself for the most part while we developed a huge industrial capacity in order to help win that war.

 

 

I'm not sure if it's this or a little bit of us slipping while everyone is catching up or what. But even before WWII, we and other countries had a huge advantage with slave labor to aid in building up our countries. This is not a popular view or a particularly pretty one, but it's nevertheless part of our history. But regardless, this also gave us and some countries in Europe a huge advantage.

[dahkter]

Good thread, good comments.

 

I liked wbcsound's take on the future, it definitely sounds feasible. I do worry however about the rise of robots and the eliminations of jobs, it will likely be very real within our lifetime.

 

Bravo to Michael Saulnier on writing about corporations becoming the new nations. It's definitely a topic that deserves attention (and is basically unspoken in mainstream news outlets).

 

I also like Craig talking about the distentegration of borders, we're all human, we all bleed the same blood. It would a utopian scenario if the World could band togehter for a greater good. Hopefully technology will also result in more compassion and common sense unlike the previous millenia of human history.

 

Regarding the current U.S. economic state, it seems to be a result of poor decisions by the Federal Reserve and overspending due to the Iraq War. To make it worse, there is definitely a global economic correction. As technology makes the globe smaller, it's natural that the U.S. economy would follow suit and level out in realtion to other countries.

 

It will definitely be interesting to see how all of this plays out in the coming weeks and months. I agree that the events of this month will have repurcussions for many decades.

[Rabid]

For me, either averger quality of life or something that measures the lowest levels should be a key factor in determining how any country stacks up against another and how that country stands in history.

[MrKnobs]

 

Irans presidents stated America is nearing its end... Article Here I don`t think this is a political post but I can`t help but feel there is some sort of "shift" going on these days with so much going on and now the country is going into something very close to a depression... but this could be even more across the board... makes you wonder.

 

 

Ahmadinejad didn't say "America is nearing its end," he said the "American Empire" is. And, depending on what he meant by "nearly," he's clearly right.

 

Our current strategy of world dominance by economics and military presence is no longer sustainable. We are borrowing huge sums of money to maintain our "empire" and clearly there is only one end possible to that, especially since the country we're borrowing from has it as their goal to replace us.

 

Eventually, and probably soon, our strategy of printing more money to reduce our huge debt in terms of constant dollars will no longer be acceptable to our creditors. We're beginning to see the cracks already.

 

Terry D.

[the stranger]

Plagiarized. Saw in the op-ed pages...three months ago.

 

It's still funny, just ask Ken!

[the stranger]

Perhaps some sort of outside threat or knowledge will radically change things. M

 

That's what Reagan said. Seriously. Probably the only damn thing he ever said or did I agree with.

[the stranger]

Bravo to Michael Saulnier on writing about corporations becoming the new nations. It's definitely a topic that deserves attention (and is basically unspoken in mainstream news outlets).

 

[UstadKhanAli]

It's still funny, just ask Ken!

 

Yes, it's true!! Still funny!!!! See? He's right!!!

[Reverend Cheese]

 

In the 1930's Shah Reza Pahlavi established close ties with Nazi Germany and was a stalwart admirer of Hitler and the concept of the Aryan master race. The Shah went on to ask the international community to use the native name of "Iran" in 1935 to address his country, which in Persian means 'Land of the Aryans' The country had been known as Iran to the native people themselves for many centuries, but Westerners came to refer to the nation as Persia. During the early 1930s, Iranian Police General Sar-lashgar Mohammad Hosein Ayrom made considerable effort to model Iran's Security Police after the Gestapo. When the Shah was forced out in 1941, he escaped to Nazi Germany and became a member of Hitler's SS. There are some figures in Iranian history who played a role in the Holocaust and now they deny it.

 

 

Not that your comment was teribly relevant, but the same is true for Dear Old USA. Let's see, Americans who supported the Nazis philosophically and financially. Prescott Bush, Rockefeller, Lindbergh, Henry Ford, Carnegie, Joseph Kennedy just to name a few. Heck, The Rockefeller Foundation even helped found the German eugenics program and even funded the program that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz. And don't forget that eugenics had been quite the rage here in the USA even before Hitler came to power.

 

And when it was all over in Germany after WW II, the OSS (which became the CIA) helped spirit high ranking Nazi officers into the USA and gave them positions within the CIA and FBI. This is not conspiracy theory, this is conspiracy FACT and is our history.

 

What does this say about us as nation? Hmmm?