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  • Very Talented People

    What is it about insanely talented people? I know some musicians that are on another level talent wise but often their lives are a mess. Never mind the substance abuse but their relationships are often abusive or they can’t hold a job together. I know there are always exception to this it’s something I have noticed as I got older. It’s like they can’t get out of their own way
    "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

  • #2
    Being gifted (no matter what your particular gift is) is no guarantee of a smooth, happy, successful life.

    **********

    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
    - George Carlin

    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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    • #3
      No of course not but on some level they have to be afraid of success.
      "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

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      • #4
        They can't quite get to the adult side of the brain perhaps. Too emotional, incapable of critical thinking/reasoning. Frankly I won't waste time with people like that no matter their skill level because to actually be considered talented or gifted in my book you need to be the complete package which includes being a courteous, respectful, prudent, intelligent, functioning adult.
        http://www.crazydeliciousband.com/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ggm1960 View Post
          They can't quite get to the adult side of the brain perhaps. Too emotional, incapable of critical thinking/reasoning. Frankly I won't waste time with people like that no matter their skill level because to actually be considered talented or gifted in my book you need to be the complete package which includes being a courteous, respectful, prudent, intelligent, functioning adult.
          They don't necessarily have to be neurotic donas. Anytime achievement equals bucks, there will be very stringent filters. There's no way for "naturals" to address that.
          Originally posted by Unconfigured Static HTML Widget...








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          • #6
            I'm sure that any of us have some eccentricities and most certainly a level of OCD to get to any point where we'd be of value to a music group or musical endeavor. It appears to me from watching many interviews and documentaries that some of the most famous and wealthy musicians out there seem to be pretty well grounded and able to cope with and/or avoid temptations and situations that might have taken me down under similar circumstances. As I get older my tolerance level for any kind of stupidity or BS gets less and less.
            http://www.crazydeliciousband.com/

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            • #7
              I get that.
              "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

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              • #8
                I've played with some rather gifted musicians, many recently and older like myself. I'd say it's really a 50/50. In the 'local' scene, I see mostly flakes and burnouts, while talented, or gifted, their lives are a mess and they still hop from band to band and still screw it all up eventually, every time.

                Then there's the studio guys, who always seem to have a charmed life, talented players and successful careers outside music. Rarely do I meet a career musician with talent and stability. I guess you have to be crazy to be a working musician these days haha.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Outkaster View Post
                  What is it about insanely talented people? I know some musicians that are on another level talent wise but often their lives are a mess. Never mind the substance abuse but their relationships are often abusive or they can’t hold a job together. I know there are always exception to this it’s something I have noticed as I got older. It’s like they can’t get out of their own way
                  As an oldster, I'm amazed to see some of the wisdom (that normally only comes with age and experience) in the lyrics of some very young artists over the last 70 years. I have a feeling many of these people had a very hard or interesting childhood. With it may come the incredible lyrics, but also the skewed world view behind it that brings its own demons.

                  "Gotta pay your dues if you wanna play the blues, and you know it don't come easy."

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                  • #10
                    You get that good because you had high standards for yourself. The more talented you are, the greater number of less talented musicians you have to deal with by definition. I've worked with a lot of guys who were more talented than I. Some made life miserable for everyone; some were a joy to work with.

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                    • #11
                      Well there are also guys I can have a beer with but not be in a band with. I know singers that have had abusive child hoods that I'd put up against anyone nationally but they just have this self destructive side of them that they can't seem to get around. It's really too bad.
                      "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

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                      • #12
                        This reminds me of a drummer friend who is obviously super gifted, but can't seem to find steady gig. There are some people who are really really good at what they do, and they excel when they can play to their strength, but they can't seem to function outside of their domain. Although this guy is an amazing drummer, people don't want to hire him because the song ends up being his way and his style, which is not what they are asking for. I remember going to this workshop one time and the guest artist told us a story about landing a recording gig after playing very basic bossa nova groove. He was told that they audition a whole bunch of prolific drummer but he was the only one who played what the music needed.

                        I guess some of that comes down to ego, and maybe some of the talented musicians just have too much of it to be able to work with others. But in the case of my friend, he genuinely seems like he doesn't know how to do things any other way than his own way. I also know a piano player who is very technically gifted and have incredible rhythmic vocabulary in his playing, but he just can't help but overplay to the point of absurdity when he solos. He can do all sorts of virtuosic stuff on the instrument but he just can't play something simple and melodic.

                        In both cases, it seems like they are naturally inclined and gifted in playing music a certain way, and most of us perceive that as tremendous talent. On the other hand it's hard for them to step back and work outside of their comfort zone in that respect. I've read athletes and musicians talking about how talent can be detriment and people with less talent can succeed because they have to spend that much more effort being outside of the comfort zone and working through them, whereas talented people may feel more easily frustrated and haven't developed the tools to overcome a blocks whenever they face them. I guess the ones who are truly successful are ones who have that natural ability, but was also able to acquire the work ethic and attitude of the laymen. It also makes sense that the latter would have better coping skills and have more stable life in general.
                        Last edited by etcetra; 08-05-2018, 09:05 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by etcetra View Post
                          This reminds me of a drummer friend who is obviously super gifted, but can't seem to find steady gig. There are some people who are really really good at what they do, and they excel when they can play to their strength, but they can't seem to function outside of their domain. Although this guy is an amazing drummer, people don't want to hire him because the song ends up being his way and his style, which is not what they are asking for. I remember going to this workshop one time and the guest artist told us a story about landing a recording gig after playing very basic bossa nova groove. He was told that they audition a whole bunch of prolific drummer but he was the only one who played what the music needed.

                          I guess some of that comes down to ego, and maybe some of the talented musicians just have too much of it to be able to work with others. But in the case of my friend, he genuinely seems like he doesn't know how to do things any other way than his own way. I also know a piano player who is very technically gifted and have incredible rhythmic vocabulary in his playing, but he just can't help but overplay to the point of absurdity when he solos. He can do all sorts of virtuosic stuff on the instrument but he just can't play something simple and melodic.

                          In both cases, it seems like they are naturally inclined and gifted in playing music a certain way, and most of us perceive that as tremendous talent. On the other hand it's hard for them to step back and work outside of their comfort zone in that respect. I've read athletes and musicians talking about how talent can be detriment and people with less talent can succeed because they have to spend that much more effort being outside of the comfort zone and working through them, whereas talented people may feel more easily frustrated and haven't developed the tools to overcome a blocks whenever they face them. I guess the ones who are truly successful are ones who have that natural ability, but was also able to acquire the work ethic and attitude of the laymen. It also makes sense that the latter would have better coping skills and have more stable life in general.
                          This seems like a simple example of not getting the product which in my circles is mostly DIY crap - and those are the gigs! (sorry had to throw that in)

                          Another thing going on and in fairness to a fellow drummer, is there's a generation (at _least_ I would think) that is imprinted with the drum machine patterns they train with; do nothing monotony that they build their "stardom on". The only choice is do it how they like it or bag.

                          I invariably choose the latter. This has little to do with talent but everything to do with music vs music business. Skimming the psyches of drunks is not my idea of a worthwhile pursuit.
                          Originally posted by Unconfigured Static HTML Widget...








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                          • #14
                            I was also told Talent doesn't mean anything if you don't do anything with it.I am sure you guys know people around your region that are like that. You will be older someday and wake up thinking should have could have"
                            "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

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                            • #15
                              I guess I'm extremely talented. When in school, I was first tenor sax in the all-state band every year, getting the honor even over upper-class-men, and taking the section leader position away from the default first alto player, which is like making the first viola player in an orchestra "concert master".

                              Since Junior High through school in solo contest, I never got less than the "superior" gold medal.

                              I graduated and went on the road with a rock band that got 'almost famous' and have been playing every since.

                              For most of my live so far as I made my career doing music and nothing but music, either I'm still talented or I'm good at fooling other musicians and an audience (that might be the trick).

                              Music just comes easy to me, which doesn't mean that I don't work at it, because I do. Working at what comes easy makes it better.

                              I play 7 instruments (8 including voice) and can take a pop music job on Sax, Wind Synth, Bass, Guitar, and Lead Vocals. I could do a gig as a drummer too, but I'm not in shape to do a whole night. I'd have to train first. I can get around with flute or keyboard synth as a double (left hand isn't good enough to do a piano gig).

                              I have no drug problems, I hardly ever even drink alcohol. I have a happy life with my wife of 40 years who is also a musician and we are a duo together. But I'm not a very good 'band salesman' so I rely on agents, repeat business, and word of mouth. I also have a very messy office.

                              Back in the hippie days, I did some drugs, but never-ever did them on the gig, and by they time I was 21, I even quit drinking on the gig.

                              Perhaps I'm too normal to be a musician

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