The G string won't stay in tune.

[Delirium trigger]

I have a few guitars, I use heavy strings, the G string hardly ever stays in tune on any of the Gibson Les paul's and on my ESP EC-1000. The intonation is set correctly. Everything stays in tune except the G string. My friends also say their guitars do this. Is there any fix?

[1001gear]

Buzz Feiten maybe. and maybe this:

 

[video=youtube;QaYOwIIvgHg]

 

[billybilly]

Ah yes, the old G string conundrum. Good news is you have a good ear. The bad news is its a fault of the guitar and the intonation. Does your ESP have an earvana nut? If so I'm surprised it has that problem because they do a heck of a job in correcting it.

 

I've used both the earvana and buzz feiten system with good results and highly recommend you try the same. The eavana nut is an easy fix, I do it on all my guitars. Some guitars G strings suffer more than others, not sure why.

 

Check out this picture, the G string is moved forward more than the other strings considerably, it works.

 

[wankdeplank]

I don't have that problem on any of my guitars including my short scales. I use graphite and tusq nuts and have never had to resort to nut sauce or other nut lubricants. Not sure what guage you use but I use tens, and my Gibson came stock with Grover tuners. Based on personal experience, I'm not a huge fan of those tulip Kluson style tuners Gibson likes to use.

[onelife]

As an experiment, put some pencil lead in the nut slots.

 

The heavy string you use may be subject to friction in the slots and the graphite from the pencil lead will reduce the 'pinching' effect. If the tuning is more stable with the graphite, you may want to get the slots widened a bit (by an experienced guitar tech) to accommodate the heavier strings.

 

I carry pencils in my guitar cases so, wherever I am, if I find that my guitar is going out of tune I'll just apply the graphite and the problem is solved.

 

 

[catscurlyear]

after you tune the guitar is it out of tune straight away or is it after you play for a little while then it is out of tune

[WRGKMC]

Unwrapped G strings sounding out of tune are very common. The cause can be a combined number if issues that usually need to be addresses individually.

 

You mentioned heavy strings so the first thing I'd look at is to see if the Nut and saddles are cut properly for those string gauges. If the guitar originally had thinner strings, the fat strings are pinching in the slots. The second you bend a string it fails to return to pitch because of the pinch the strings in the slots.

 

An easy way to test this is to, plug into a tuner, tune to pitch, then press the string down at the headstock between the tuner and nut. You should see the pitch on the tuner go sharp and immediately return back to original pitch. If it stay sharp, the nut slot is binding the string, if it goes flat, you don't have the strings wrapped on the tuning pegs properly.

 

Do this for all strings. They should all return to pitch.

 

If they do return to pitch then you have other issues. String height, Worn Frets, relief issues etc. All combine with intonation to give you problems along the fret board. Even the brand of strings you're using can be questioned.

 

One thing I do is use string chime harmonics at the 5th, 7th and 12th frets to fine tune the intonation so the notes are relatively in tune along the entire neck. Getting just the 12th fret intonated does not address all the other frets on the neck.

 

You can double check if your tuner id chromatic. Try an open string and compare it to the last fret. Dollars for donuts the string will be so sharp you cant even pull the strings into pitch. (this would go along with the G string pinching in its slot) If the nut and saddle don't allow the strings to slide freely, the higher notes in the neck which have a longer travel to the fretboard may bend sharper in pitch then they are supposed to because all the tension is occurring between the nut and saddle instead of the tuner and tail piece.

 

One trick of getting around this is to first make sure the nuts cut right. If its just a little pinch, you can use an old set of strings and drag them through the nut slots to widen them out and get rid of burrs. Then a bit of lube and you should be good to go.

 

After that, when you do your intonation, switch between checking the last fret and 12th with your meter. You should be able to get both very close with maybe a little pulling into pitch on the last frets. You may not see a change at the 12th fret on the meter but the fine tweaks make a big difference at the last fret.

 

If the relief and height is right your should be able to most frets in pitch as well as the 12th fret. Then check the touch harmonics at the 5th 7th 12th 17th and 19th frets and compare them to the fretted notes.

 

*Note the harmonics and the fretted notes at the 7th and 19th frets will tend to be a few cents sharper then the open strings. This is normal and expected. Don't try and intonate the open strings to the 5th or 7th frets, it cant be done because a guitar is a tempered instrument using a tempered scale. Because the guitar has straight frets you can only get the instrument relatively in tune with itself. If you have perfect pitch this can drive you nuts if you don't learn to ignore it.

 

In many cases I tune my G string a few cents flat vs sharp because I know it flexes sharp at the frets more easily then other strings.

 

The rest has to do with string touch and getting the strings matched by ear. I use a strobe tuner for setups but my final tweaks are always by ear because a tuner cant tell me how far I have to tweak a string out of pitch slightly to get it to play in relatively good tuning on different guitars along the entire neck. They all tend to be a bit unique and each players grip requires varying amounts of compensation beyond what a tuner can display to get the best possible results.

 

You can also use this trick which I highly advise becoming proficient at. Back in the day before you had electronic tuners you'd do all your setups by ear. If you have an electronic keyboard you can plug into your guitar amp at the same time. Use something to wedge the key and hold say the E note down on the keyboard. Adjust the Keyboard and guitar notes to equal volume. Then compare your open E notes on all strings to the keyboard.

 

Chances are the open strings will be in tune but other frets will be either sharp or flat. You can hear when they are off by the string beating that occurs. I do this running through the open strings E,B,G,D,A & E and compare at least the open and 12th strings then make micro tweaks to get the rest as close as I dare. If I err I tend to leave it slightly sharp vs slightly flat. Strings will tend to go flatter when they age and if you have a flat note it can sound awful when it goes south.

 

If you haven't got a keyboard, they make some free tone generators you could load up on your computer. Try and get the speaker as close to your guitar speaker as you can. You can even run a line out from your computer sound card if needed.

 

Tuning by ear has become a lost art for many musicians that rely on electronic tuners. Some of the better ones will get you close but they cant detect your string pressure. That compensation has to be done with a combination of a good ear and micro tweaks a tuner my not even detect but your ears do.

[Dendy Jarrett]

That's what she said ...

[onelife]

That's what she said ...

 

 

drummers

[Delirium trigger]

To the one poster, it doesn't go out of tune too quick on most guitars except one of my Gibson's, it goes out of tune almost instantly on it. All of my guitars, except that Gibson are set up for what I do. It might be the nut on the Gibson. The ESP isn't as bad but it's enough to be annoying.

 

I'm not using too heavy of strings, I just meant I use 10-52's in Drop C# and regular Eb half step down. I have been playing for a while so I have a good eye for the neck, my neck's are completely straight, so I know it's not a truss rod issue. Although I don't allow a lot of relief, like most metal players with low action, it's just straight.

 

So everyone is saying this is possibly a nut problem?

[Delirium trigger]

Another issue i'm having since I moved to a damp area in front of a creek in an old country log house, (never experienced this before,) my guitar can be in drop C# and I pick it up 20 minutes later and it's in Drop D almost perfectly. Every string. How does that happen?

[catscurlyear]

To the one poster, it doesn't go out of tune too quick on most guitars except one of my Gibson's, it goes out of tune almost instantly on it. All of my guitars, except that Gibson are set up for what I do. It might be the nut on the Gibson. The ESP isn't as bad but it's enough to be annoying.

 

I'm not using too heavy of strings, I just meant I use 10-52's in Drop C# and regular Eb half step down. I have been playing for a while so I have a good eye for the neck, my neck's are completely straight, so I know it's not a truss rod issue. Although I don't allow a lot of relief, like most metal players with low action, it's just straight.

 

So everyone is saying this is possibly a nut problem?

 

10 `s seem a bit light on a guitar tuned down C# ,i use 11-48 in Eb and regular tuning , what size is the G string ,

[catscurlyear]

Another issue i'm having since I moved to a damp area in front of a creek in an old country log house' date=' (never experienced this before,) my guitar can be in drop C# and I pick it up 20 minutes later and it's in Drop D almost perfectly. Every string. How does that happen?[/quote']

 

ghosts who like to tune guitars to drop D

[catscurlyear]

it goes out of tune almost instantly on it.

 

just make it clear ...if you tune up and then do not play your guitar will it stay in tune .....do you have to actualy play it before it goes out of tune ?

[Delirium trigger]

The G string is a 17. The G string goes out while I'm playing it. But, I can be playing it to warm up, and get my recording software ready to go, load up some plug ins, and by the time I plug back in, maybe 20 minutes later, the guitar is tuned up a half step. For some reason it does not tune down, it tunes up.

 

I have a dehumidifier because of where I live. Maybe I need more than one. The one I got is huge.

[Stringbender11]

I started a thread just like this one on another forum, OP. Lots of people posted in it and complained about the same issue. Ive accepted it as something inherent in a guitar's design. Apparently there is no 100% perfect tuning on an instrument like a guitar. I try not to pay too much attention to the issue but do always notice it, and I'm actually amazed that anyone who has played for a while DOESNT notice it.

[Dendy Jarrett]

To heck with your guitar ... I wanna know more about this old log house in a damp area! You living in western NC?

[catscurlyear]

i use a 18 G string ,you use a 17 and tune a whole tone lower than mine ,it will be sloppy and feel a bit unstable , i`d maybe try heavier strings ,try what wrkgmc says by pressing the string down at the headstock between the tuner and nut to make the string stable where it wraps round the tuning peg ,widen the slot on the nut with a mini hacksaw blade or mini file ,it don`t have to be perfect just as long as the string can travel freely ,just don't cut too low .i`d look at getting some kind of string locking system if i was tuned so low . regards the strings tuning up .it might be temperature when you put the guitar down the guitar neck will drop in temperature and the strings will contract and rise in pitch maybe but i think you will have thought of that already.

[WRGKMC]

Drop tuning can definitely be the string gauges vs. the relief setting. Your symptom of setting the guitar down and having the pitch go up sounds like the relief is too tight for the string gauges. There's not enough string pull to keep the proper tension on the truss. The neck may be straight but inside that truss is working too much against the string pull.

 

This is a common issue when neck relief is set for concert pitch and then you drop tune. The neck flattens out too much or even back bows.

 

A good way to get around this is to set the guitar up at concert pitch using a lighter gauged set like 9/46 in your case, then use 10/52 when you drop tune. Or you could just use strings designed for drop tuning that have larger cores and maintain the proper string tensions.

 

One mistake guitarists make is to adjust the neck dead flat. In most guitars this puts the stress inside the neck on the truss instead of distributing the stress on both the truss and the wood of the neck. You want a balance between the stress on the strings and the entire neck including the truss. This insures proper tuning and good tone.

 

Some thinner necks can be "very" finicky to tweak in properly. A guitar can change tuning due to temperature. Humidity probably isn't a problem because the wood is sealed with a water resistant finish and it would take years for the wood to be affected.

 

You should remember your basic science you learned as a kid. Steel expands with heat and contracts with cold. I'm not sure how cold its getting where you're at, but the warmth of the hands on a neck warms the truss and the strings to around 90 degrees when you play it for awhile. Then if your home is chilly, you set the guitar down and the strings go up in pitch.

 

I have a Steinberger guitar that has a double ball system. It remains in nearly perfect tuning for months. I can tune it to perfect pitch then set it down. When I pick it up its slightly sharp. All I have to do is warm the strings with my hands and it comes right back to proper pitch. I don't even bother trying to tune it till I've played a song. If I were to tune it before warming the string it would be flat after that first song.

 

You should use this technique for checking your relief every time you pick up your guitar. Its can help you check and see if the guitar is exhibiting these symptoms.

In the upright playing position, Hold the first and last frets down on each string and pluck the strings at about the 5th fret. All strings should just clear all the frets between the first and last frets. If you have strings laying on the frets, your truss is too tight. Loosen it 1/8 turn at a time and let a few days pass before you make another tweak.

 

Your strings should never lay down on all the frets when you do this test or you'll have nothing but problems thinking the instrument is s lemon.

You should be able to pull back on the headstock hard and get the High E to lay down on the frets on a guitar set for low relief but this should not be easy to do. This is especially true on older guitars that have worn frets that may be worn between the 3rd and 7th frets where a lot of fret wear occurs.

 

If your neck is back bowed and all the strings are laying down on the frets, ease off the truss a small tweak at a time till the strings clear. You can then bring the string height down as needed to get your low action back. On most guitars the relief contours between the 1st to 5th frets, The rest of the neck remains relatively flat from the 5th to 7th frets up.

Next, hold just the last frets down and pluck the strings around the 5th fret. All strings should clear between the last fret and nut. You "definitely" shouldn't have any strings touching any other frets in this test. If you do, you either have a nut that's too low or a bad back-bow issues.

 

If this was an issue it will take some time for you to get used to the strings having more tension on the higher frets. This feel factor will go away as you retrain your hands to play on a guitar properly set up. My method of setting up an instrument is to do what's best for the guitar then use mind over matter getting myself used to playing the instrument. Making the instrument conform to a feel factor is a dangerous path because the strength in hands and sensitivity or the fingers changes on a daily if not an hourly basis depending on how pumped up you are.

 

I've had many instances where I'd get a guitar set up to where it plays nicely when I'm laid back, calm and collected, then I take it out on stage when I'm pumped and the strings and action are too flabby to deal with properly. Having something to work against is an important thing and actions set too low can be a huge hindrance to becoming proficient.

 

One other thing your should look into getting is a notched straight edge and a set of feeler gauges. You can buy one on EBay for $12 and its worth every penny. You lay it on the center of the neck and adjust the truss till your can wedge a .009 or .010 feeler gauge under the straight edge around the 5th or 7th frets. I use .009 gauge strings so I sat my guitars to .009. If you use .010/52 you will likely want .010 to .011 relief.

 

This takes all guess work out of setting the neck. No feel factors involved, no eyeballing worn frets which may cause errors. That gap will keep the frets from buzzing and equalize the tension on the strings. After a few weeks properly set you'll find the neck settles down and you stop getting the issues with the guitar changing pitch. It will likely sound allot better as well. From there you simply set the string height and intonation and play your ass off not having to worry about the neck changing on you.

 

[groovezilla]

Have you tried wiring wrapping it around and under the tuner peg? Essentially this wraps the end of the string under the string windings on the peg. I do this for all the strings on my guitars. I've been meaning to post a YouTube video on how to do it. Works great, even with moderate use of a tremolo bar.

[Burgess]

I'm assuming that when you are putting on new strings you are stretching them out vigorously before you attempt to play. Assuming...

[1001gear]

Or the tuner slips or the ball doesn't seat.

[billybilly]

My G string is really uncomfortable and stinks after a few hours wear.

[catscurlyear]

My G string is really uncomfortable and stinks after a few hours wear.

 

try it on back to front for a while

[DeepEnd]

Another issue i'm having since I moved to a damp area in front of a creek in an old country log house' date=' . . . I pick it up 20 minutes later and it's in Drop D almost perfectly. Every string. How does that happen?[/quote']

It happens because of humidity causing your whole guitar to flex as the wood expands. You'll need to do a better job of controlling the ambient humidity. Buy a hygrometer and set it correctly and make sure the RH wherever your guitars are is 40-60%. If it's higher, you need a dehumidifier. I keep my guitars in a corner of the living room and there's a bookcase next to them with a hygrometer sitting on one of the shelves. A quick glance and I know whether my guitars need attention.

 

As for your original question, tune your guitar so it's in tune at the 5th or 7th fret. That way, the effect at the other frets will be less noticeable.