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cleaning some ancient UFIP hats

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  • cleaning some ancient UFIP hats

    I have a set of vintage UFIP hi hats. They are *very* tarnished. I've left the patina on until now but wonder if cleaning them would brighten up the sound a bit.

    Should I do it? And if so, how.

    Thanks
    There is more than one way to do this. Notes Norton

  • #2
    Okay then, I'll answer myself. This thread suggests that cleaning brightens up the sound. So I went ahead with cleaning.

    I'm removing a half-century or more of dirt, so rather than use a boutique cymbal cleaner that I'd need to go to the city to buy, I started with the brasso in the the cellar. But I was going to have to buy about $20 of brasso to complete the job and it smells bad. So I tried this, the flour/salt/vinegar version, and it's working a treat. I've done them about three times now -- they were *very* dirty -- and they shine like the morning sun except a few spots where the surface may be pitted or may have had water droplets on it -- I don't know.

    They're back on the stand now and they are sounding lovely. No more dullness. Silly me for not doing this before -- and just wishing they sounded better.

    Now I'll have to learn to play them.

    From here on, I may opt for a cymbal polish, but cheap and cheerful worked fine for the heavy lifting.
    Last edited by pogo97; 01-26-2018, 06:47 PM.
    There is more than one way to do this. Notes Norton

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    • #3
      Try Bar-Keepers friend.
      However, if they are 50 year old HiHats - IMHO - I would leave the patina.
      UFIP are going to be dark in nature simply because of the way they are made (older hand hammered)

      If you use Bar-Keepers friend, lay an old towel in the bottom of a bathtub (to keep from scratching the bottom of the tub). Wet the cymbal in about a half inch of water. Sprinkle the BK friend and just let it do its thing. Don't use any aggressive scrubbing. Then rinse and dry - You'll be amazed how well it works.
      D
      Keeping the Harmony at Harmony Central

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      • pogo97
        pogo97 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks Dendy. I'll have to check out this BKF stuff. Last night I removed the vast bulk of the patina using flour, salt and vinegar and it has made a strong positive difference to the tone from frustrating/muffled to "oh my, that's nice." I'm a piano and guitar player mostly, so I don't have multiple hats or anything -- one good snare (Pearl Session Custom) optimized for brushes and the one set of hats only -- so a balanced, flexible sound is more important to me than antique appearance.

        In passing, could you point me at a teaching source for playing hats? Especially with brushes.

        And, what should my next kit item be, do you figure? I'm leaning toward a ride.
        Last edited by pogo97; 01-27-2018, 09:40 AM.

    • #4
      Recipe for patina remover / cleaner. I've used this a few times now and it's gentle and effective. There are a few pits/spots it doesn't get, but generally excellent performance, cheap and non-toxic.

      1 cup warm household vinegar
      as much salt as you can dissolve in the warm vinegar
      1 cup or so flour -- the flour thickens the liquid to a paste that sticks to the cymbals, so adjust accordingly

      rub the paste all over the cymbal and rub it in -- I use my hands, but a soft brush or cloth will also serve
      let sit for 5 minutes
      rinse off with warm water

      repeat as needed

      rinse and dry
      There is more than one way to do this. Notes Norton

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      • #5
        Windex is surprisingly good for the green stuff. I think if you were to soak cymbals in it, that might be enough. Another quickie is tomato ketchup; prolly easier and cheaper than Windex per square foot.

        A tool I've never come across would be a special brush for lathed cymbals - something like a Discwasher for cymbals.
        Originally posted by Unconfigured Static HTML Widget...








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        • #6
          Originally posted by 1001gear View Post
          A tool I've never come across would be a special brush for lathed cymbals - something like a Discwasher for cymbals.
          http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...,65190&p=10259
          There is more than one way to do this. Notes Norton

          Comment


          • 1001gear
            1001gear commented
            Editing a comment
            Those look pretty useful.

        • #7
          Originally posted by pogo97 View Post
          Recipe for patina remover / cleaner. I've used this a few times now and it's gentle and effective. There are a few pits/spots it doesn't get, but generally excellent performance, cheap and non-toxic.

          1 cup warm household vinegar
          as much salt as you can dissolve in the warm vinegar
          1 cup or so flour -- the flour thickens the liquid to a paste that sticks to the cymbals, so adjust accordingly

          rub the paste all over the cymbal and rub it in -- I use my hands, but a soft brush or cloth will also serve
          let sit for 5 minutes
          rinse off with warm water

          repeat as needed

          rinse and dry
          Very cool - thanks for posting that!

          How well did the logos on the cymbals (if any) survive?

          **********

          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

          - George Carlin

          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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          • pogo97
            pogo97 commented
            Editing a comment
            No logos, just stamps, which survived just fine.

        • #8
          before and after

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          There is more than one way to do this. Notes Norton

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          • #9
            Aah, stamps.

            Looks like the cymbals cleaned up nicely!
            **********

            "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

            - George Carlin

            "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

            - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

            "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

            - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

            Comment


            • pogo97
              pogo97 commented
              Editing a comment
              Yep. But the great thing is how much better they sound. Night and day. Pity there's no before and after recording.

          • #10
            as much as i like leaving the patina on things... ive tried all the above mentioned products and for my money, ketchup works like a champ... its about the same as vinegar/flour but no mixing.. ( its vinegar and weak acids, and clean up is way faster...) dont buff!!!! dont screw up the tone rings/ridges in the cymbals... remove as little metal as possible, remember... the thinner the cymbal, the deeper the pitch... and every time you clean a cymbal youre losing metal...
            Last edited by Voltan; 02-23-2018, 11:06 AM.
            my p0asting days were numb bird... now im done... bye.

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            • #11
              dr. david joseph bohm believed that every time a metallic percussive instrument, ie cymbals and gongs, the sound is coupled with an active field of electrons donated from the metal instrument that moves and falls back to the instrument as the sound pressure decays... interestingly enough he said that not all of the electrons return with the field and some are donated to other matter... so, theoretically... after a loooong long time of playing my gongs, they will eventually be bronze "dust" (electrons).... dissolved into the matrix...
              my p0asting days were numb bird... now im done... bye.

              Comment


              • #12
                Originally posted by Voltan View Post
                dr. david joseph bohm believed that every time a metallic percussive instrument, ie cymbals and gongs, the sound is coupled with an active field of electrons donated from the metal instrument that moves and falls back to the instrument as the sound pressure decays... interestingly enough he said that not all of the electrons return with the field and some are donated to other matter... so, theoretically... after a loooong long time of playing my gongs, they will eventually be bronze "dust" (electrons).... dissolved into the matrix...

                I'm afraid there's only one way to check Dr. Bohm's plasmon theories, and that's through experimentation and observation.

                We're going to need you to bang on a gong all day... every day, until it starts to disappear. Or not. Either way, it's probably going to take a while...

                Write up a proposal and I'll bet you might even have a decent shot at getting a research grant.


                You can play these two songs on continuous loop while you're working on your experiment...










                **********

                "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                - George Carlin

                "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                Comment


                • #13
                  dear lord, phil... like i need gong tracks? but i do like the way you think... i recently hooked up with a fellow thats keen on my theory about theta brain wave state and gongs... the whole dmt dump by pineal gland (which normally happens in deepest realms of sleep..). dr b was a pretty sound thinker... from some perspectives...
                  my p0asting days were numb bird... now im done... bye.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    here phil... headphones,,
                    https://soundcloud.com/stoneheart-1/solstice-moon
                    my p0asting days were numb bird... now im done... bye.

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Have I mentioned this before.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      _____________________________________
                      Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

                      Join Date: Aug 2001
                      Location: N. Adams, MA USA
                      Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

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