If Eddie Van halen was never born, who would be the next Van Halen?

[Fusion1]

Tom Morello was an unknown until RATM, he would not have filled in EVHs shoes back in the 70s. Do we even know he was playing guitar at that time? You guys are missing the original idea of this thread. If EVH and VH were never around, who AT THAT TIME would have been the logical replacement for EVH/VH? Bringing up Tom Morello or John Mayer is just ridiculous and stupid to boot.

 

It would also be equally ridiculous to think there would be a 20+ year void before a guy like Van Halen came out when Tom Morello came onto the scene or a 30+ year hiatus of rock music until some wannabe John Mayer came onto the scene to salvage, pioneer and redefine rock guitar.

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

But he was a HORRIBLE rhythm player

Malmsteen is a horrible rhythm player? Kindly list the songs where his rhythm playing is faulty.

 

He's no EVH, but I'll be damned if he didn't have one of the best rhythm styles of any '80s metaller.

[TrickyBoy]

Tom Morello was an unknown until RATM, he would not have filled in EVHs shoes back in the 70s. Do we even know he was playing guitar at that time? You guys are missing the original idea of this thread. If EVH and VH were never around, who AT THAT TIME would have been the logical replacement for EVH/VH? Bringing up Tom Morello or John Mayer is just ridiculous and stupid to boot. It would also be equally ridiculous to think there would be a 20+ year void before a guy like Van Halen came out when Tom Morello came onto the scene or a 30+ year hiatus of rock music until some wannabe John Mayer came onto the scene to salvage, pioneer and redefine rock guitar.

 

 

Eddie was an unknown until VH1 came out. Who cares. Also, the OP says nothing about timeframe. The reality is that if EVH hadn't come out, the blues rock style of guitar playing ala Angus Young, Ace Freely, Joe Perry, Page, Richards, etc. would have continued to dominate the 80's sound as it did since Chuck Berry started that stuff in the 50's. (or if you really want to go back, until Robert Johnson defined it at the turn of the century)

 

With the exception of Jimi Hendrix (who still is a blues based guitarist), really no one made any significant impact on the way the guitar was played for the better part of 30 years. To say that it's ridiculous to say it would have lasted another 15 years is just ridiculous and stupid to boot.

[fabstrat]

 

 

DRH kills that. haha. such a versatile voice, no wonder he's JM's constant backup vocalist.

 

QNJQREnYI94

[noisebloom]

I could see either one of them cfarrying on unfazed with or without Van Halen as they didn't seem to have a lot of influence from him anyways. That wasn't the question though. If Van Halen never existed, who would have been the band/ guitar player that would have filled that role? I still say George Lynch and Dokken. They were writing similar sounding hard rock in the early 80s and probably before that which makes them peers to VH not influenced by them. Hell even Quiet Riot in the late 70s with Randy Rhodes was doing that party band rock stuff like Van Halen so perhaps Quiet Riot would have been the Van Halen had there not been a Van Halen.

 

 

I am assuming that EVH was at least somewhat of an influence on Rhoads and Lynch (as both had cited EVH as an inspiration in past interviews), and that Van Halen was an influence on both Dokken and Quiet Riot, to different extents.

 

Quiet Riot and VH both played the L.A. club scene around the same time, and it could be said that they influenced each other. George Lynch could be called a peer of EVH, but Dokken (the band) was not a peer of VH, since Dokken started playing clubs after VH became a platinum selling band. Dokken's later success came during a time when 3 out of 4 L.A. bands were party rock bands, mostly following VH's lead. VH cast a long, broad shadow on L.A. music in the 80s, and Dokken was in that shadow.

 

So my point here is that if EVH wasn't on the scene, Van Halen wouldn't have risen to prominence, and therefore EVH would not have influenced so many guitar players like Rhoads and Lynch. I think those guys would have been different guitar players without EVH, and their bands would have had different careers without VH's leadership. The bands are part of the equation. Heck, the L.A. club scene in the 80s would have been radically different if Van Halen had never existed.

 

An interesting question -- as I suggested earlier about Rhoads -- is to wonder how Rhoads and Lynch would have been different without EVH. Without EVH's standard to reach for, contrast with, or even avoid, would they have been better or worse off? Would their music have suffered or flourished? Would they have risen to national prominence without EVH? That, I think, gets to the crux of the thread -- who would have been The Man in Ed's absence?

 

I'm going to go ahead and say that I think Dokken would not have had the success they had without Van Halen charting the road map, therefore I think Lynch would have been worse off. That's my opinion, and I don't mean that as a hater -- I was a fan of Lynch's work for years.

 

Ultimately, I still think Malmsteen is the easy answer, because his career and rise to prominence had almost nothing to do with EVH. He would still have been a phenomenon with or without EVH.

[blood5150]

The story goes the Lynch's band The Boyz had a show in LA and all the record execs were there and this was supposed to be their big moment. Getting signed was almost guaranteed.

Then George started hearing the opening band and went out to have a look. He ended up watching the show and was blown away by EVH.

Gene Simmons was also in the crowd that night and asked to record a demo for VH.....

Needless to say The Boyz never got signed and Lynch went back to the woodshed...


VH was the 1st band to get signed out of all those groups, then the many copy cat bands came for the next 8 years or so on the LA strip... Crue, Ratt, Dokken, they all were in some way spawned that night.

Lynch has confirmed this story plenty of times....

[noisebloom]

The story goes the Lynch's band The Boyz had a show in LA and all the record execs were there and this was supposed to be their big moment. Getting signed was almost guaranteed. Then George started hearing the opening band and went out to have a look. He ended up watching the show and was blown away by EVH. Gene Simmons was also in the crowd that night and asked to record a demo for VH..... Needless to say The Boyz never got signed and Lynch went back to the woodshed... VH was the 1st band to get signed out of all those groups, then the many copy cat bands came for the next 8 years or so on the LA strip... Crue, Ratt, Dokken, they all were in some way spawned that night. Lynch has confirmed this story plenty of times....

Good point. Which pretty much means that if EVH/VH weren't on the scene, The Boyz might have been signed that night, so Lynch might have found success elsewhere, which means Don Dokken would have teamed with another guitarist for his band ... perhaps someone like Jake E. Lee?

[_pete_]

Good point. Which pretty much means that if EVH/VH weren't on the scene, The Boyz might have been signed that night, so Lynch might have found success elsewhere, which means Don Dokken would have teamed with another guitarist for his band ... perhaps someone like Jake E. Lee?

 

Hmm. Almost forgot about Jake. Yeah, he coulda been a contender.

Dokken, even with Lynch, wouldn't have been much bigger. Don Dokken was never a strong enough singer to pull off VanHalen-ish superstardom.

 

Thinking back to what was new in that time it's possible that Brad Gillis might have had a bigger impact than he did. He was doing much wilder stuff with the Floyd than Eddie was. Night Ranger had some good stuff early on if you discount the sappy ballads. Jack Blades was a good frontman (no DLR but who is?) and Jeff Watson was pretty amazing also. They hit the scene in '82 so with no EVH paving the way, their unorthodox 2 guitar style may have been bigger.

[Angry Tele]

Keef

[ashasha]

Hmm. Almost forgot about Jake. Yeah, he coulda been a contender. Dokken, even with Lynch, wouldn't have been much bigger. Don Dokken was never a strong enough singer to pull off VanHalen-ish superstardom. Thinking back to what was new in that time it's possible that Brad Gillis might have had a bigger impact than he did. He was doing much wilder stuff with the Floyd than Eddie was. Night Ranger had some good stuff early on if you discount the sappy ballads. Jack Blades was a good frontman (no DLR but who is?) and Jeff Watson was pretty amazing also. They hit the scene in '82 so with no EVH paving the way, their unorthodox 2 guitar style may have been bigger.

That's funny because when I was trying to answer the original question and got sidetracked (as usual) I thought of Gillis. I just wasn't real sure about the timeframe.

But to reiterate my point, without VH starting that whole good time vibe in heavy music along with Eddie's off the wall playing as well as having Roth's presence as a frontman who knows what the direction of music would have taken.

And as far as I can tell VH is blues based for the most part.

I'd imagine that perhaps ZZ Top would have been a bit bigger if you can imagine that.

[fabstrat]

VH was basically a upbeat, louder than {censored}, circus form of the blues.

[primemover12]

As guitarists, this forum is likely to locate Ed's legend in his technique, his gear, and his tone. But I think the thing most folks liked about Van Halen was how they felt when they heard it. It was visceral, it was a bit lewd, and it was a hell of a lot of fun. That meant showing off, it meant being faster than the dinosaur rock that plagued the 70s, and it meant bringing a bit of physicality back into rock. Even if it was a fakery, DLR's "I've been places with my face you wouldn't go without a pistol" schtick was a shot of testosterone after a decade of disco, prog pomposity, and overly serious AOR crap. The Eddie that people loved was the guy who played like his fretboard was on fire and had a mile-wide grin the whole time. Van Halen's decline didn't come with Sammy, it came when they tried to be a serious band.

[TheBlueStrat]

Paul McCartney

[smorgdonkey]

Randy Rhoads. Even if he played as a famous guy for a short time, he inspired a lot of guitarrists and still does today. I prefer his playing to EVH. More feeling, better sound, and more skill cuz of the classical music and his influences mixing altogether. Hear Mr. Crowley, I Don't Know, and Goodbye To Romance so you will know.

 

 

 

You're probably right.

 

Also of note would be Steve Morse. He was winning all of the guitar awards even during the years that EVH was getting the 'mainstream press'.

[Fusion1]

Here's a thought out of left field. If Al Dimeola would have ventured into mainstream rock and metal. Yeah I know it probably was 0% likely, but can you imagine Al D in a party rock band like VH? He was way too serious for it ever to occur, but he had the chops for sure. Would have been interesting to say the least.

[noisebloom]

Here's a thought out of left field. If Al Dimeola would have ventured into mainstream rock and metal. Yeah I know it probably was 0% likely, but can you imagine Al D in a party rock band like VH? He was way too serious for it ever to occur, but he had the chops for sure. Would have been interesting to say the least.

 

 

A very interesting name to mention. Certainly I couldn't imagine DiMeola in a party rock band, but it would have been exciting to see him venture into more of a rock format. If he had, it might indeed have made him a bona fide rock guitar hero in those days, and that might have changed the landscape. He could have even gained a number of crossover fans, as well, who knows. By the time Malmsteen debuted on the scene, he would have been accused of copying not only Blackmore but DiMeola, as well.

[Fusion1]

I'm still surprised there weren't a lot of people accusing Yngwie of copying Di Meola and Uli Roth as they had similar styles that predated Yngwie by several years, yet he never cited them as influences.

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

I'm still surprised there weren't a lot of people accusing Yngwie of copying Di Meola and Uli Roth as they had similar styles that predated Yngwie by several years, yet he never cited them as influences.

Never? Yngwie's always acknowledged Uli's influence, and even covered a Scorpions tune on his Inspiration album.

 

I believe I've seen Yngwie mention Di Meola being an influence, but I can't find any quotes.

[Fusion1]

I have the early 80's Guitar Player and other guitar mags interviewing Yngwie and the only influence I read of him acknowledging was Richie Blackmore and classical music like Vivaldi and Pagannini. Never a blip about Uli Roth or Di Meola. Perhaps later in the 90s or beyond he finally fessed up?

[soundcreation]

Tom Morello was an unknown until RATM, he would not have filled in EVHs shoes back in the 70s. Do we even know he was playing guitar at that time? You guys are missing the original idea of this thread. If EVH and VH were never around, who AT THAT TIME would have been the logical replacement for EVH/VH? Bringing up Tom Morello or John Mayer is just ridiculous and stupid to boot.

 

 

I think you're missing the point that it was a joke.

[Daniel-Bianco]

Steve Morse would be my guess ..

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

Steve Morse was and still is an amazing guitarist, but he was already a recording artist by the time VH released their first album, and it wasn't until 1995 that he joined a successful band that could bring his guitar playing into the mainstream, and by then it was too late due to Deep Purple's decreasing popularity and relevance.

It's also worth noting that Morse is another guitarist whose style is seemingly unaffected by EVH's influence, so that's another point in his favour.

I do wonder, though, if Morse would've been too eclectic for the mainstream...

[Randy80]

Randy Rhoads.

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

I have the early 80's Guitar Player and other guitar mags interviewing Yngwie and the only influence I read of him acknowledging was Richie Blackmore and classical music like Vivaldi and Pagannini. Never a blip about Uli Roth or Di Meola. Perhaps later in the 90s or beyond he finally fessed up?

Possibly, I wouldn't know. He may have missed the point of naming all the artists he listened to as a young guitarist, focusing instead on the ones he felt were most important to him. Sometimes the most apparent influence on one's playing isn't the guy you feel the most interest in discussing, for various reasons.

 

It's strange that with most guitarists, you rarely see people bringing up who they were influenced by, instead focusing on their actual work. With Malmsteen, people always bring up all the people he's influenced by, adding stuff like: "Oh, this guy was picking fast way before Malmsteen" and similar, as if being influenced by other musicians takes away from one's own playing. Is it an attempt to diminish his importance or something?

 

Not referring to anyone in particular here, just a general observation.

[agradywills]

Love Randy but he did not have better tone than EVH, or the same rhythm chops. Randy relied on power chords.... A lot.

 

 

That's exactly my feeling about Rhoads. His tone was fairly crappy (except for the Tribute/Live Album). Don't get me wrong, he was a badass but VH had way better studio tone and his rhythm playing was/is some of the best.

 

The studio version of Crazy Train is TERRIBLE.