Alder vs. Swamp Ash for a Strat

[mrbrown49]

 

Amps, pickups and other various electronics do a whole helluva lot more to a guitar's sound than wood is ever going to do. Buy the wood for looks and enjoy it, but don't buy it cuz it offers this or that tonal properties unless you are buying an acoustic or a hollowbody..

 

 

This always gets brought up and to me it sounds like {censored}. Plunky.

[RaVenCAD]

Here is what we need to do.. We need two equally competent players, each holding a Stratocaster (Fender, MIA) with the same pickups but in different woods, to play the same scale through a modeling software demo (Guitar Rig 4 or Amplitube 3), using the same factory preset and recorded with the built in recording feature of the modeler. The only variable needs to be the wood. No tweaking, no bull{censored}. Play it and prove there is a difference worth arguing over. That's the only way this is ever going to be "solved".. Till then, it's all bull{censored} on both sides of the argument..

[ILikeGuitar]

http://www.petelacis.com/2010/07/08/alder-vs-swamp-ash-maple-vs-rosewood-and-a-neck-swap-the-definitive-comparison-with-audio-clips/

 

This is a great comparison, I suggest everyone check it out if you haven't seen it yet

 

Alder is a little smoother but not as big on the low and high ends

Swamp is a little harsher but seems more dynamic

[Badside]

 

http://www.petelacis.com/2010/07/08/alder-vs-swamp-ash-maple-vs-rosewood-and-a-neck-swap-the-definitive-comparison-with-audio-clips/ This is a great comparison, I suggest everyone check it out if you haven't seen it yet Alder is a little smoother but not as big on the low and high ends Swamp is a little harsher but seems more dynamic

 

 

Wow, this is really nice.

Funny, I always thought maple neck were brighter, here I find them to be more balanced.

[BydoEmpire]

http://www.petelacis.com/2010/07/08/alder-vs-swamp-ash-maple-vs-rosewood-and-a-neck-swap-the-definitive-comparison-with-audio-clips/ This is a great comparison, I suggest everyone check it out if you haven't seen it yet Alder is a little smoother but not as big on the low and high ends Swamp is a little harsher but seems more dynamic

I was just cutting and pasting this link - you beat me to it. I was really surprised what a big difference neck wood makes.

[Brewski]

truth is swamp ash and alder do sound different in a clean amp using the same settings through a quality TUBE amp.

 

 

I believe there is no reason to decide - buy two Xavier strat bodies - one in Alder and the other in Ash and then get a Fender strat to swap the bodies with the fender and see which you like

[doodie]

you can ask your question here

 

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/

 

they have a section dedicated to body wood.

[Belva]

Doodie, your avatar is about to explode!!!

[GAS Man]

Anyway...ash bit more bright and snappy alder warmer and more round.

 

Generally I agree with you 100%, but the dude said "Extra-light".

 

I'd still go with the alder because I agree with the above generalization which I view as a more versatile tone, but I have to admit that none of the Strats I've ever played were "Extra-light". Fender had a series of Light-ash but that actually just referred to the color. Those were boat anchors.

 

As much as I'm biased against ash strats, I often remind myself, Mark Knopfer's sig guitar is ash and I like his tone.

 

 

This is my one ash strat, and although I luv it, it definitely fits the above description.

 

 

 

Even though it's a "deluxe" they still used some fairly dense (heavy) ash for it. I have the same guitar in maple neck/alder and its definitely deeper, warmer and not as bright as this ebony/ash guitar (and yes, the neck has a bit to do with that as well)

I think one thing you will get is a bit more of that nasally tone. Maybe a bit more vowel-like. The one guitar I do have with an ash body that I like and has a good amount of depth is my Fender '52 RI Tele. They obviously used a good plank on that one.

[garthman]

Amps, pickups and other various electronics do a whole helluva lot more to a guitar's sound than wood is ever going to do. Buy the wood for looks and enjoy it, but don't buy it cuz it offers this or that tonal properties unless you are buying an acoustic or a hollowbody..

 

Absolutely 100% correct! :thu:

 

And BTW, here is a a vid of a guitar with a concrete body and magnetic PUs;

 

[YOUTUBE]ppusLiJYKd4[/YOUTUBE]

 

I am constantly amazed at the total crap that is spouted about the (alleged) difference to the sound that the wood from which an electric guitar is made: "good in mid-range", "bright top-ends", "warm" FFS, get a life, people.

[kit_strong]

 

http://www.petelacis.com/2010/07/08/alder-vs-swamp-ash-maple-vs-rosewood-and-a-neck-swap-the-definitive-comparison-with-audio-clips/ This is a great comparison, I suggest everyone check it out if you haven't seen it yet Alder is a little smoother but not as big on the low and high ends Swamp is a little harsher but seems more dynamic

 

 

Hmm.. this in no way makes my decision any easier. The only thing its ruled out for sure is a rosewood fingerboard with ash body.

 

FOr aesthetic purposes I am starting to lean towards an Ash body (even though it will be painted). I'm planning on Sonic Blue and I think a natutral maple neck will look better with that than a rosewood board. If I want to do a 180 Ebony could definitely be an option and I think for that I would definitely want to go with an Alder body.

[kit_strong]

I am constantly amazed at the total crap that is spouted about the (alleged) difference to the sound that the wood from which an electric guitar is made: "good in mid-range", "bright top-ends", "warm" FFS, get a life, people.

 

And I'm amazed at those who think it makes no difference. The basic tonal properties of a given wood type definitely impact the sound. When i bought my Virage i played both the mahogany and ash versions and the difference in tone was quite noticeable.

[Badside]

Fender had a series of Light-ash but that actually just referred to the color. Those were boat anchors.

 

Hehe, true, I had one of those. Heaviest Strat I've ever played!

Plus it had a really thick polyester finish, zero resonance to it.

Looked really good though!

[Badside]

Hmm.. this in no way makes my decision any easier. The only thing its ruled out for sure is a rosewood fingerboard with ash body. FOr aesthetic purposes I am starting to lean towards an Ash body (even though it will be painted). I'm planning on Sonic Blue and I think a natutral maple neck will look better with that than a rosewood board. If I want to do a 180 Ebony could definitely be an option and I think for that I would definitely want to go with an Alder body.

 

Ah come on, let that wood shine through

You can do a blue stain!

[garthman]

 

. . . . The basic tonal properties of a given wood type definitely impact the sound. . .

 

 

When it's played unamplified, then yes. Despite the damping properties of a solid wood body some vibration occurs which in turn causes air molecules to vibrate which are detected by the ear.

 

But when the guitar is played amplified, the magnetic PUs detect the vibrating strings and that signal is amplified. A magnetic PU only detects a vibrating ferrous metal - not vibrating wood.

[Badside]

 

When it's played unamplified, then yes. Despite the damping properties of a solid wood body some vibration occurs which in turn causes air molecules to vibrate which are detected by the ear. But when the guitar is played amplified, the magnetic PUs detect the vibrating strings and that signal is amplified. A magnetic PU only detects a vibrating ferrous metal - not vibrating wood.

 

 

The body vibrates sympathetically with the strings, it will tend to resonate more at certain frequencies depending on wood type and even shape.

 

But if you don't believe this to be true, buy poplar bodied guitar and be happy.

(Actually, poplar's not bad at all, it's just the it's too soft and the screw holes strip easily)

[garthman]

 

The body vibrates sympathetically with the strings, it will tend to resonate more at certain frequencies depending on wood type and even shape. . . .

 

 

But the whole point of the solid-bodied electic guitar is to ensure that those sympathetic vibrations in the wood are dampened to such a degree that they do not cause the PU to vibrate (by anything other than a very minute amount so) that there is no harmonic interference or feedback.

[kit_strong]

Ah come on, let that wood shine through You can do a blue stain!

 

It's all kind of dependent on what's available in the showcase and right now there aren't any transparent strats up in my target price range that i like.

Plus i already have 3 transparent/dye finish guitars now and really want a sonic blue or surf green.

[Badside]

 

But the whole point of the solid-bodied electic guitar is to ensure that those sympathetic vibrations in the wood are dampened to such a degree that they do not cause the PU to vibrate (by anything other than a very minute amount so) that there is no harmonic interference or feedback.

 

 

That was the initial intention (mostly getting rid of feedback), but it's just not the case.

 

However, that concrete guitar probably succeeds in that aspect... would need a concrete neck though (the neck is probably even more important cause it's more prone to vibrating along with the string, being thinner and longer)

 

As a general observation, it can be observed that the stiffer the wood, the brighter the tone (the more "rubbery" it is, the more it will absorb high frequencies). And this is observed by using maple wood as an example, which is considered one of the brightest tones as far as bodies go.

However, since every object has a resonant frequency (along with various harmonics), there will still be a complex system happening all along the bandwidth that will give each wood (and even body shapes) a certain signature. Yes it's sometimes very subtle, but it's there, and it's more complex than what can be done through EQing (and will also react with your playing, unlike an EQ).

 

An example of this is a speaker baffle. Mount a speaker to a very thin particle board and you will lose a lot of low-end and definition. Mount it to a 1" thick MDF board and you may suddenly find it too harsh.

Yet all you're hearing is the speaker right?

[Badside]

 

It's all kind of dependent on what's available in the showcase and right now there aren't any transparent strats up in my target price range that i like. Plus i already have 3 transparent/dye finish guitars now and really want a sonic blue or surf green.

 

 

Have you thought about doing the finish yourself?

A stain followed by a clear coat is not that hard, but it is a scary project for sure.

 

I like Warmoth's prices for bodies and necks, but I find their rates for paint a bit high, it's not like it's nitro either.

 

But then... I like tackling on crazy project, and to me doing the finish myself is part of the equation. I got into this by making hardwood amp cabinets, fun stuff and definite attention grabber on stage!

[garthman]

 

An example of this is a speaker baffle. Mount a speaker to a very thin particle board and you will lose a lot of low-end and definition. Mount it to a 1" thick MDF board and you may suddenly find it too harsh. Yet all you're hearing is the speaker right?

 

 

When the ear hears a loudspeaker it hears all the elements of the vibrating body - because the vibrating body causes air molecules to vibrate. A magnetic PU does not "hear" - it amplifies a small electric current caused by a vibrating ferrous metal producing a flux in its magnetic field.

 

Actually you are getting close - when you "hear" an electric guitar what you actually hear is the loudspeaker in the amp or cab.

[Belva]

If wood didn't make a difference all guitars would be made of the same thing.

And there wouldn't be hollow, semi hollow or acoustic variants.

I do agree that pups and gear make more difference. I also agree that the thickness of your pick can make as much difference as type of body wood.

[kit_strong]

So I guess those of us who do hear differences in the samples posted above are just hearing things. Guess I should check myself into the nearest psychiatric institute.

[Badside]

 

When the ear hears a loudspeaker it hears all the elements of the vibrating body - because the vibrating body causes air molecules to vibrate. A magnetic PU does not "hear" - it amplifies a small electric current caused by a vibrating ferrous metal producing a flux in its magnetic field.

 

 

Correct, the magnetic PU does not hear, it picks up the string vibrations. Those strings have to be solidly fixed to something or else they can't vibrate. That something will absorb vibrations unless it's super stiff (like that concrete guitar) in a frequency dependant way because of the complex nature of wood (with varying densities and all). The pickups don't "hear" the wood, but they pickup string vibrations which are affected by the medium holding them

 

As I said, if you choose not to believe that, it's your choice. I've never paid a premium for a specific wood unless it meant getting something else too (like a nice see-through finish). I just buy guitars that I like and it turns out they're always made of alder, ash or mahogany and maple.

 

But if I'm building from scratch, I will damn well make sure to select the optimal body wood even if the end result is a complex system affected by many thing (going from a tremolo to a hardtail bridge will have much more impact!).

 

And swamp ash just looks so nice with see through finish

(I have a see-through alder guitar too, nice but rather bland in comparison!)

[Badside]

 

If wood didn't make a difference all guitars would be made of the same thing. And there wouldn't be hollow, semi hollow or acoustic variants. I do agree that pups and gear make more difference. I also agree that the thickness of your pick can make as much difference as type of body wood.

 

 

Many people underestimate the importance of string type and gauge too! It's amazing what finding the "optimal" string type for your playing style and guitar can do.

 

I LOVE 11-48 Power Slinkys on Strats, but hate them on Les Pauls

However, a set of Martin 10-52 on my Paul was just the ticket (can't find them anymore though)

Currently using Elixir 10-52 on the Paul, not as "toneful" as the Martins imho, but damn I enjoy their longer life!