Why I Hate To Talk To "Regular" People About Being A Musician

[Beck]

Damn! I feel kinda bad I haven't been on the forum much lately. Now you guys are turning on each other.

 

It's a tough world for sure... even among "peers.

[Lukenskywalker]

Well, I said to let it all out ! I hope you feel better. I know I do. When I said my problem was with you, I meant that I don't have a problem with police officers as a class of people but that I do have a problem you specifically. I was not I saying I had a problem with you before. I wasn't even precisely clear who you were. In fact, I believe I was partially conflating you with another forum member to the extent that I had a sense of who you are, hence my confusion over your cultural background. Nor did I have a problem with you through my second "Cop Rock" post -- because I honestly thought we were teasing each other in a friendly manner. Then, when it became clear you were ticked off about those posts -- still not realizing that you didn't know it was an infamously goofy concept show from the guy who made Hill Street Blues -- and you claimed I'd attacked you, even though I simply mentioned those shows (my posts are still up, you can go back and look at them), I started getting a little annoyed. But then, after I posted the post asking pointedly if you knew I was talking about an 80s TV show and not you -- I then read and re-read some of the rest of the thread, saw the stuff about "the tribe" -- and then I really did start having a problem with you. I've said what I thought. I suppose you don't see it the same way. But I would commend a reconsideration of the way you express your attitudes toward Jews in public if you don't want to continue being labeled by others as antisemitic. On the personal stuff, you're welcome to your opinions. I know I rub some folks wrong, but that's life, huh? As long as I don't think I'm doing the wrong thing, I really don't sweat the opinions of others that I may not know.

 

I never addressed your accusation that I was anti-semitic, or even offered an explanation of what I said because I was quickly assailed by Hardtruth and then you picked up the Standard and beat the whole issue to death.

 

I assured Hard Truth that their was no Bigotry involved.

 

When I was 28 I started a long term (well for me, five year relationship with a beautiful, warm,witty, Jewish woman, Her parents were some of the coolest older folks I ever met, I loved hanging with them, her mom was an accomplished artist with some of her work in the Whitney, Her Dad, a member of the Diplomatic Corp originally posted to Thailand.

We broke up and I missed her, but I missed her parents even more...

Some of the things I said were based on tonque in cheek remarks that her parents used to say to each, it was stereotypical stuff, but that's they kidded,

It was like,they were saying to me 'you know this is the way Jewish people are supposed to be' .But they were nothing' like that at all.

Anyway, my post fell flat in the humor dept, I should have presented it differently or not posted it at all...

When Hard Truth told me to '{censored} off' my hackles went up and I wasn't about to give and mitigating reasons because I didn't think he deserved any clarification.

I can sort of see his point and source of anger now that the dust has settled.

 

On the personal stuff, we were both a bit rough on each other...I am sorry if I went too far...

 

Hope we can put this past us, One 'old guy' to another.

 

I'm off to Vermont at 11 am today, over the river and thru the woods I go.

 

My thanks to Ernest Buckley for trying to difuse the situation...peace Ernest!

[philbo]

FWIW, I think you two should start a new thread to carry on your pissing match. Just my humble opinion...

[blue2blue]

Thanks for explaining about the personal background thing. Seems like you can now see how it might have been taken the wrong way. We've all cracked wise and had it taken in a way we didn't mean, I suspect. I know I have.

 

On the personal stuff, I honestly had forgotten previous interchanges and that I had decided to 'give you some room' so as to avoid new unpleasantries -- and I suspect that your better memory on that front accounted for you taking my joke about the 80s police show more as an attack, since the last significant exchange we had had was probably negative. So, my apologies on that. I hadn't meant offense but I now understand why you took it.

 

 

So, I certainly appreciate your further explanation and regret my part in bringing the unfortunate exchange about.

 

I hope you and yours will have a happy holiday.

[blue2blue]

FWIW, I think you two should start a new thread to carry on your pissing match. Just my humble opinion...

I think we have it more or less straightened out.

 

I should probably apologize to ggm1960 for helping make a mess of his thread, though.

[Lukenskywalker]

 

Thanks for explaining about the personal background thing. Seems like you can now see how it might have been taken the wrong way. We've all cracked wise and had it taken in a way we didn't mean, I suspect. I know I have. On the personal stuff, I honestly had forgotten previous interchanges and that I had decided to 'give you some room' so as to avoid new unpleasantries -- and I suspect that your better memory on that front accounted for you taking my joke about the 80s police show more as an attack, since the last significant exchange we had had was probably negative. So, my apologies on that. I hadn't meant offense but I now understand why you took it. So, I certainly appreciate your further explanation and regret my part in bringing the unfortunate exchange about. I hope you and yours will have a happy holiday.

 

 

Hey, it's 11 am here and I was just heading out but wanted to see iF you got my message...

Yeah almost forgot, I thought Cop Rock was a reference to 'crotch rot;...yeah, it sounds kinda ludricrous now...my bad, I honestlLY NEVER heard of a show called Cop Rock....

 

Thanks for the Happy Holiday and definitely 'right back at ya...

If you do apologize to GBB for our abusing his thread could you send my apologies too, I gotta run...peace Luke

[blue2blue]

That's hilarious! Now, anyhow. Oh, gosh, I'm still laughing out loud as I type this. Yeah, that would be kind of personal. Ohmygawsh. I'm still laughing, I can barely type.

 

My bad for thinking Cop Rock was a near-universal reference.

 

Think of it as Glee set on the force.

 

No, really. I swear.

 

It was really surreal. And I love surreal. (But I didn't have a TV at the time.)

 

I offer this in the new spirit of holiday cheer and fun we've rediscovered in this thread...

 

j9qR8sgd-Nc

 

You know, when your peace officer friends tell you, It's nothing like you see on TV -- I'm thinking this is the zenith of that.

 

It was produced by Steven Bocho (Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere) and the theme music was written by Randy Newman.

[ggm1960]

I think we have it more or less straightened out. I should probably apologize to ggm1960 for helping make a mess of his thread, though.

 

I guess the whole thing was about blowing off a little steam anyway...

[Hard Truth]

 

People have these bizarre societal expectations foisted on them, and most never give any of them a second thought. Why would you grow out of something you enjoy? What's infantile about traveling? Or playing music? Or doing anything that brings you enjoyment and opens you up to new experiences? .

 

 

For many people the answer to "Why" is their children. They have to make sacrifices for their kids, including giving up the rock star or world explorer dreams to take a steady job or caring for the kids at night instead of going to rehearsals. The paradox is that a person who gave up their dreams and pleasures is not a great role model. (A problem with many school teachers IMO) And there are plenty of ways for people to continue doing what they love even though they have kids, unless they are extremely poor. I think some people wrongly put too much energy into hovering over their kids or striving for success in a job that they don't love, and then carry the resentment over these sacrifices just below the surface. That is likely the background behind some of the remarks musicians hear.

(and don't get me started on people who think that EVERYONE has a duty to have children)

[nat whilk II]

 

People are going to be people, no matter what. All I could really do was try to figure out a way to interpret their actions in such a way that it didn't trap me in emotional reactionism. I came up with a sort of paradoxical approach that worked for me: I sort of imagined that, for all purposes, other people (particularly those who vexed me) were simply the product of the environment and processes that had shaped them, that they were, in effect, slaves to causality. Me, on the other hand, I figured that, at the moment we laughingly call now , I do have a certain free will. I can't change my past, but I can change how I react to now ... or at least I was willing to imagine I could. And, whaddya know, that gave me some tools to help stop feeling trapped and bounced around by the perplexing and often vexing actions and attitudes of others. And stopping that feeling allowed me to be free to rise above. As they say.

 

 

I heard some years back of a trick for defusing anger while driving - just pretend all the other cars are so many drops of water or river flotsam flowing along and all you want to do is just not get wet or bump into something...

 

This mind-trick works for me, and I find it extremely ironic, because it's de-personalization and/or objectifying of other humans that is so often correctly cited as the reason people can justify (to themselves) terrible things they do to other humans.

 

It seems the idea that other people "can't help being bad" can be put to work either as an excuse for forgiveness and also as a rationalization for dealing with them ruthlessly....curious paradox, that.

 

nat whilk ii

[UstadKhanAli]

I heard some years back of a trick for defusing anger while driving - just pretend all the other cars are so many drops of water or river flotsam flowing along and all you want to do is just not get wet or bump into something...

 

When I do this, BMW drivers turn into predatory sharks talking on cellphones while zipping in front of me and spraying water all over.

[nat whilk II]

I agree in general. However, I think the responses to your being a sp. ed teacher, while maybe predictable, are valid and probably sincere. I wouldn't have a problem with that. I think the frustration comes from people having to tie music in with making money. In other words, the value of a special ed teacher is pretty obvious to the average person, whereas the value of music is not, unless they can put a dollar value to it, and this can be frustrating and alienating to a musician. I don't think people intend to be that way - I agree with you they're just making friendly small talk - but I think it sort of brings out a broader alienation that many musicians feel. It pushes some buttons. I usually don't visibly get annoyed with people when they say things like that, but it's a bummer when this is the first thing out of someone's mouth when they hear that someone's a musician. It's just kind of a sad reminder of how different my values are from most people's. Of course it's still a lot better than somewhat related responses like "That's a nice hobby to have - what's your real job?" Or "I hope you have something to fall back on."

 

 

There are I don't know how many stereotypical pictures and assessments of various professions that get trotted out in casual conversation...such as

 

accountants are all boring,

academics are totally out of touch with real life,

financial brokers are all shallow materialists,

attorneys are lying, slick-talking opportunists,

preachers are hypocritical clowns,

cops are barely-suppressed dominators,

politicians are liars and frauds,

corporate executives are all amoral/immoral vampires,

dentists are for some mysterious reason, simply ridiculous

 

and on and on

 

so musicians as eternal adolescent dreamers is I suppose just yet another one to add to the list...

 

But it seems to me that these stereotypes, which serve Jay Leno's joke writers very well, are in reality paper-thin conversational reactions so much of the time. Typically you can get past them by simply making it clear that you are serious and sincere about your art. Of course there is always the clod who loves his stereotypes so much that he can't be dislodged from them...but most people admire serious and committed people in general, even if they think it's a waste of time in pragmatic, materialistic terms.

 

nat whilk ii

[techristian]

 

I probably don't even need to repeat it but it was pretty much like this, "when you get rich and famous you can send me tickets to your concert and I can tell everyone I knew you when...etc..". The first thought I had was good grief man, you must know that I'm 50 years old!

 

 

Don't sell yourself short. It is a longshot, but still possible to put together a decent music video or even a FLASH music video and be a YOUTUBE STAR ! ...............not likely, but still possible. However the real world is that the music biz is tough work with little pay.

 

Dan

[UstadKhanAli]

There are I don't know how many stereotypical pictures and assessments of various professions that get trotted out in casual conversation...such as accountants are all boring, academics are totally out of touch with real life, financial brokers are all shallow materialists, attorneys are lying, slick-talking opportunists, preachers are hypocritical clowns, cops are barely-suppressed dominators, politicians are liars and frauds, corporate executives are all amoral/immoral vampires, dentists are for some mysterious reason, simply ridiculous and on and on so musicians as eternal adolescent dreamers is I suppose just yet another one to add to the list... But it seems to me that these stereotypes, which serve Jay Leno's joke writers very well, are in reality paper-thin conversational reactions so much of the time. Typically you can get past them by simply making it clear that you are serious and sincere about your art. Of course there is always the clod who loves his stereotypes so much that he can't be dislodged from them...but most people admire serious and committed people in general, even if they think it's a waste of time in pragmatic, materialistic terms. nat whilk ii

 

http://store.theonion.com/product/stereotypes-are-a-real-timesaver,36/

 

[nat whilk II]

http://store.theonion.com/product/stereotypes-are-a-real-timesaver,36/

 

LOL that's one I hadn't seen before:lol:

 

nat whilk ii

[ggm1960]

 

I heard some years back of a trick for defusing anger while driving - just pretend all the other cars are so many drops of water or river flotsam flowing along and all you want to do is just not get wet or bump into something... This mind-trick works for me, and I find it extremely ironic, because it's de-personalization and/or objectifying of other humans that is so often correctly cited as the reason people can justify (to themselves) terrible things they do to other humans. nat whilk ii

 

 

This reminds me of something similar I saw, read or heard years ago. People driving in cars is impersonal and the reason for road rage is that you see them as objects rather than people. The contrast to that is when you're walking down the street and you bump into someone you don't yell obscenities and flip them off, you say excuse me or sorry.

[veracohr]

 

This reminds me of something similar I saw, read or heard years ago. People driving in cars is impersonal and the reason for road rage is that you see them as objects rather than people. The contrast to that is when you're walking down the street and you bump into someone you don't yell obscenities and flip them off, you say excuse me or sorry.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't get angry at impersonal objects; I do get angry at people!

[nat whilk II]

To clarify:

 

for me, the "depersonalization" mind-trick involving "cars-as-rain-drops" works with me at least to defuse my anger at people.

 

I simply find it ironic that "depersonalization" can work as a technique to avoid misbehavior against other humans (retaliation, etc), while at the same time, "depersonalizing" is also what people often do who hate/torture/discriminate/demean/abuse/rob/mug/heckle/harass other people.

 

Just an odd paradox, that's all.

 

Yeah, as a rule I get mad at people, only rarely at things - but I did once kick a toaster around the kitchen that was "misbehaving":facepalm:

 

nat whilk i

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't get angry at impersonal objects; I do get angry at people!

 

 

I think he means that the interaction between people in cars and people, say, walking in a crowded mall would be different because it's depersonalized. Just like if you were walking in a crowded area, people would be less likely to suddenly cut in front of you and suddenly slow down; yet that happens all the time on crowded roads and highways.

 

Of course when you change things up, interactions become different. It can't help but be different. The interaction in this forum is much different from people interacting in person. And again, like the depersonalization of cars and the certain anonymity that this brings, people tend to be ruder. Anonymity doesn't always bring out the best in people, and neither does the distancing, whether that's by computer, by car, or by country.

[raagam]

 

... At Woodstock Joni mitchell was playing an acoustic set and I remember this dude yelling out...'{censored} this snooze {censored}, I wanna Boogie!' ...

 

 

Joni Mitchell did not appear at Woodstock. She was worried that traffic would disrupt her appearance on the Dick Cavett show, and so she didn't go, to her regret.

[lonotes]

Yeah, as a rule I get mad at people, only rarely at things - but I did once kick a toaster around the kitchen that was "misbehaving":facepalm: nat whilk i

 

And did the kitchen straighten up and fly right afterward?

[samtrips]

 

Joni Mitchell did not appear at Woodstock. She was worried that traffic would disrupt her appearance on the Dick Cavett show, and so she didn't go, to her regret.

 

 

 

At least she got the theme tune written promptly.

[Beck]

We

[UstadKhanAli]

Well said.

[Lukenskywalker]

 

Joni Mitchell did not appear at Woodstock. She was worried that traffic would disrupt her appearance on the Dick Cavett show, and so she didn't go, to her regret.

 

 

Yup, memory failed me here... It was the Atlantic City Pop Fest and poor Joni was miffed at the lack of communication between Artist and Audience

and ran off stage...

 

I think they scheduled some high energy acts before her...She was in effect a

'Buzz-kill' for the 'Boogie set'