Fed up of shred bashing?

[Norcal_GIT_r]

Originally posted by Burn Yes, but not all rock "shredders" are all show and no go. This clip has plenty of saturated distortion; check it out: ---> Petrucci solo track

 

 

No where did I say all!!

I personally like certain shredders but the average kid who thinks he's a shredder is just kidding themselves.

Petrucci is a great player and does a whole lot more than just shred. Honestly I dont really look at JP or DT as shred but they do incorporate some in thier music.

[profDave]

I agree with the idea of achieving and improving on the instrument. Technical ability is only part of it. I personally think knowledge of the instrument is more important than extreme technical ability. For me it doesnt really matter how fast or precisely you can pick 8 note scale patterns if you dont understand how the scale being played is used and how to construct chords with it.

[Milkman1]

I, like many others prefer music to shredding.

Yes I admire players like Morse, Satriani and Vai, but truthfully Gilmour is a better musician to my ears.

Why? Yup, feel feel feel.


I've heard so many guys blow a million notes and not say a damn thing.


To me, the song is the art form, but just because you don't spew as many notes as possible during a song, doesn't mean you're not a good guitarist.


Just my opinion of course.

[LaXu]

Originally posted by Burn Yes, but not all rock "shredders" are all show and no go. This clip has plenty of saturated distortion; check it out: ---> Petrucci solo track

 

 

And is a great example of a horrible guitar solo. Just because you can play fast doesn't mean you should do that all the time and it also doesn't mean that you can just forget things like melody. If we stick to Petrucci, there's a huge difference between two fast solos like the Under A Glass Moon one and the As I Am solo posted above. One is interesting and the other is just wanking.

 

Guys like Van Halen, Jason Becker and Yngwie Malmsteen play fast solos, but they remember to keep the listener hooked with good melodies or interesting phrasing. I think the biggest "pointless wankers" are found in jazz/fusion though, not rock.

 

Personally I'm quite comfortable with my speed, but not my theory knowledge. I really have no need to learn to play faster because I don't play things that require it and often I find that those who can play really fast often just play scale patterns over and over again and that's not really very interesting is it?

[santos]

Originally posted by Knottyhed ...What the hell is wrong with wanting to attain a virtuoso level of skill on the guitar?

 

 

I would argue that a "virtuoso level of skill" on any instrument is not solely a measure of technical speed.

 

Other than that, it's all a matter of taste. I think fast technical playing can be impressive, and expressive - categorizing it as meaningless wanking is unfair, sure. But I also don't think you can draw an obvious conclusion that everyone who's not a shred fan is just harboring some hidden jealousy.

 

Again, it's a matter of personal taste, and not everyone has the time or desire to acquire that level of technical skill.

 

To each his own.

[Burn]

Originally posted by Milkman1 Yes I admire players like Morse, Satriani and Vai, but truthfully Gilmour is a better musician to my ears.

Mark Knopfler's fills in Brothers in Arms is one of the best lead works I've heard... and so is Vai's Tender Surrender, or Lights of Heaven by Satch.

Could Gilmour play as fast as Petrucci? I don't know, neither do I care. He never wrote anything as aggressive as Pull Me Under, so he never needed to.

They all make and play different kinds of music. It all boils down to which style you like best, or relate to the most.

[Burn]

Originally posted by LaXu And is a great example of a horrible guitar solo. Just because you can play fast doesn't mean you should do that all the time and it also doesn't mean that you can just forget things like melody..

Ahahahah, I agree completely. It was only meant to be an example of a distorted solo with good technique

[Ripfence]

Originally posted by Knottyhed It's not, but if it was i'd still be more of a musician than a {censored} guitarist who still can't write a decent song.

What if the {censored} guitarist was a fantastic piano player?

[Chorus_of_One]

Originally posted by Knottyhed What the hell is wrong with wanting to attain a virtuoso level of skill on the guitar?

 

 

People like you that annoy other people about it. Other than that, nothing.

[Ripfence]

Originally posted by Matter-Eater Lad It has always puzzled me why playing fast and having great skill in classical, country, bluegrass, jazz is always positive but in rock it's frowned upon. Though bluegrass mandolin players almost always play fast. Banjo would be boring as hell if they weren't picking the hell out of it constantly. The shred bashing comes from people who can't do it or are to lazy to aquire the skill. It's BS to say the average listener doesn't know the difference between fast and slow playing. You can witness their appreciation in the genres I mentioned before, after a guy will play a fast passage they will applaud. In a way, it's the idiot way of showing off BECAUSE the audience gets it so easily.

 

 

Excellent point. I hear shread all the time in country music, it just isn't recognized as such. Whether you are playing the hell out of an acoustic or a telly with a clean amp or a Jackson through a cranked Boger it still takes great skills. On the converse, just because a player doesn't play fast doesn't mean he isn't good.

[peavey_impact]

Originally posted by LaXu Guys like Van Halen, Jason Becker and Yngwie Malmsteen play fast solos, but they remember to keep the listener hooked with good melodies or interesting phrasing. I think the biggest "pointless wankers" are found in jazz/fusion though, not rock.

 

 

I can't believe you even put Yngwie in the same category as these dudes. I like a lot of his stuff but IMO hes about the most boring of all "shredders".

[peavey_impact]

Originally posted by Alchemist Most guys that bash shred simply fall short in their guitar playing:wave:

And this picture is f**king hilarious!

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by Knottyhed It's not, but if it was i'd still be more of a musician than a {censored} guitarist who still can't write a decent song.

Not really. Learning a couple scales and then using muscle memorization to play them really fast doesn't really mean any musical on its own. You seem to be the one who has created a thread just to throw insults around. Why not just do what you want to do and not worry otherwise.

[One-armed Alec]

Originally posted by Knottyhed What the hell is wrong with wanting to attain a virtuoso level of skill on the guitar?

 

Nothing at all, but some people appreciate 'appropriate' playing more than 'virtuoso' playing. Different tastes, that's all.

[One-armed Alec]

Originally posted by Moveable Beast This is an excellent point. You don't hear guys putting down country players for being able to play a mile a minute up and down the fretboard.

 

The country guys aren't as wanky with it. Perhaps it's because they refuse to wear PVC trousers.

[Untitled]

If it makes the song better than shred is cool.

[maccashash]

The reason nobody hates jazz or classical players for virtuosity is that those guys usually aren't giant jackasses who wear spandex. In addition, their music is usually more complex than simply running up and down the scales at light speed. There is a concept in music called dynamics. You know, playing soft as well as loud. I've never heard anyone in the shred arena being praised for his excellent control over dynamics. It's always "HOW CAN I GET MORE BREWTAL GAIN???" I also see shredders CONSTANTLY mixing up the terms "vibrato" and "tremolo," so it's not like they are masters of music theory. Usually, players in the jazz, classical, and country fields also work well with other instrumentalists. Except for Dream Theater and Rush, I rarely hear shredders praise bassists and drummers. Frankly, playing fast is more a matter of muscle memory and repetition than any musical intelligence.

[Alchemist]

Originally posted by maccashash The reason nobody hates jazz or classical players for virtuosity is that those guys usually aren't giant jackasses who wear spandex. In addition, their music is usually more complex than simply running up and down the scales at light speed. There is a concept in music called dynamics. You know, playing soft as well as loud. I've never heard anyone in the shred arena being praised for his excellent control over dynamics. It's always "HOW CAN I GET MORE BREWTAL GAIN???" I also see shredders CONSTANTLY mixing up the terms "vibrato" and "tremolo," so it's not like they are masters of music theory. Usually, players in the jazz, classical, and country fields also work well with other instrumentalists. Except for Dream Theater and Rush, I rarely hear shredders praise bassists and drummers. Frankly, playing fast is more a matter of muscle memory and repetition than any musical intelligence.

 

 

 

Interesting, these issues you speak of only apply to those who perpetuate the stereotype. There are plenty of players who have plenty of dynamics, but its much easier to throw everyone into one big negative heap and generalize them isnt it?

 

Vai, Satriani, John Petrucci, Shawn Lane, Paul Gilbert, Richie Kotzen, Andy Timmons, Uli Jon Roth, Al DiMaeola, Frank Gambale... and the list goes on have plenty of dynamics, an incredible amount of knowledge of theory, composition etc. So while its nice to pick out one or two fools who make the genre look bad, its assinine on your part to throw everyone into that caste.

[Deuterium]

Originally posted by peavey_impact I can't believe you even put Yngwie in the same category as these dudes. I like a lot of his stuff but IMO hes about the most boring of all "shredders".

You are SO WRONG on so many levels that I don't even know what to say.

Yngwie has as much influence on modern rock guitar as Van Halen....plus, he can play circles around him. As much as I love Jason Becker, he wouldn't have been the guitarist he was without Yngwie.

Show some respect, dude.

Do you even know one single friggin' song or piece of music by Yngwie...besides "Black Star"

[Auggie Doggie]

I am enjoying the hell out of this thread.

It's nice to see such a large number of posts that actually promote good technique for a change, as opposed to the usual tripe that is often spewed in the Guitar Jam forum.

[LouRed]

Buddy Guy pwns Eric Johnson, big time.
Some people confuse feeling and charisma.
Shredding is interesting if done 30 seconds on a 5 minute song.
The day Vai or EJ can play with at least half of the feeling B.B. King or Buddy Guy do, maybe we can start comparing Shred and blues.

only my opinion guys.

[Alchemist]

you have obviously never heard all of eric johnsons work, especialy his live work which has a lot of slow blues, some stuff I would never believe to be eric if you didnt tell me....


I like the blues, jazz, rock, shred and all. I dont see any reason to try to take away from either style to feed your own ego and your ideas. Each style has a lot to offer whether in song writting, techniques, etc. Stating that these guys cant play with feeling is stupid. You think these guys who spent so many years practicing cant play the blues? Come on man, dont kid yourself, most guys start with the blues, I started with blues and classical. Its part of the progression.

[LouRed]

It is also true that a guy who started on a 20 bucks guitar, with no teaches whatsoever, tuning the guitar as he pleases, living in a world where racism was/is very deep. will be able to play with twice as much soul than a guy who just learned theory. to justify this you should see the movie "crossroads". Eric Clapton did play blues, but the best EC blues was composed after he got over heroin and his son died. Hard Hits the life blows.

[Gex]

This thread is hilarous.

How did we, as guitarists, get so tunnel visioned and beligerant?


Somehow along the way, "Electric Guitar Playing" got confused with and somehow mashed togeather with "Blues playing"

So on one side, we got all these "blues" guys here, sitting with they're PRS's, Les Pauls and Strats on their knees, bitchin about how Steve Vai sounds like noise because its too fast for their slow noodles to comprehend.


Now, on the otherside, we got the "shred" (I really hate that term - Its developed a negative connotation) fans that are hopelessly and forever trying to explain to the blues folks that "shred is legitimate music and is really cool, and they can play with feeling" (which is TRUE guys, not everyone expresses themselves with pentatonics )

Now after that, the Blues fans come back with all sorts of brilliant comments about how "But they dont make MUSIC!" Once again prooving the point that somehow, the myth that "Music = Blues"is widely accepted yet still.


*gets deep breath. . . starts up again*

You've heard the term "Different strokes for different folks" of course, right? well. . .it applyies here. Music come is an enormous variety of forms, from pentatonic wanking, to birds chirping, to screaming shred guitar, to the silent heartbeat of a mockingbird sitting quietly in an oak tree.

And, just like how MUSIC is extremely varied, PEOPLE are extremely varied. And PEOPLE have different TASTES. So. . .all of those variables, when compounded togeather, form ENDLESS boundaries for what people will enjoy to listen to as music. I mean, I think SRV is pure, tasteless noise, and Steve Vai is the greatest guitarist ever. Neither can be proven as facts, and neither is more right than the other. Its just that Steve Vai has a way of playing and expressing himself that I can relate to and I can literally "feel" the music when he plays it. Something about its strangeness touches the deepest part of my personal musical tastes (which are a bit unorthodox, I will admit, from the common culture's point of view that is) and I can really get down and groove to Steve Vai's stuff. Cant say the same about SRV, it sounds like pure wank to me. I cant comprehend the hype he recieves, I dont see anything interesting about his playing. Its just the way MY brain works, based of MY BRAIN'S personal tastes.

You dont have to be snobs about it. If they want to listen to the sound of cinderblocks being smashed togeather like cymbals, then you should not only let them, but even suggest some good cinderblock-smashing bands if you know of any. We've got to EMBRACE each other as musicians, not put each other down so its a huge ass rat race to be more soulful than SRV or sweep faster than Rusty Cooley. . .we're giving ourselves complexes here.

We gotta develop the arts and let them flourish. Im just askin you to open your minds to all forms of music, and not just brooding over one particular specific genre of guitar based music.


I hope at least one person understands what Im sayin here.

[Shakermaker40]

I wish I could shred.... but I'm stuck playing mindless indie music:D