Members acravero Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Paladin2019 And they have bad hair. To be a shredder is to embrace bad hair. Quote of the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Paladin2019 And they have bad hair. To be a shredder is to embrace bad hair. ...and Twinkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Europa760 Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by jerry_picker Agreed.However, too often "shred" is reserved as a term of derision for examples of soulless playing that are self-fulfilling (and useless) arguments. "shred" has become emotionally loaded, a sort of n-word or c-word in certain camps. Some see the enitre world as divided into "shred" and "flog", akin to those who uselessly divide rhythm and lead playing.Saying "I'm a shredder" amounts to painting a target on one's own back.That doesn't mean that playing fast and technically well is intrinsically wrong. this much is obvious, otherwise there wouldnt be threads like this or the opposite of this. im just pointing out how people have misplaced anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burn Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Alchemist AMEN BROTHER:thu: I just noticed you said the same thing while I was typing The word "virtuoso" refers to a musician who has exceptional command of an instrument. Hence the freedom to express whatever he wants, however he wants. I don't see how that can make them "soulless." They can choose to be, however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Europa760 this much is obvious, otherwise there wouldnt be threads like this or the opposite of this.im just pointing out how people have misplaced anger. It's the Twinkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Europa760 Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Most guys that bash shred simply fall short in their guitar playing:wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ColourOfFire Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 I don't think shredding is wrong. It's cool to be able to shred. I don't master it properly, but I practice to do so. But there's a difference between being able to do it, and use it moderately, and just play as fast as possible all the time. If your music is only playing as fast as you can with some lyrics over it to make it look like a song I think you're doing the wrong thing, but shredding is very cool when used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Code-001 Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Speed = emotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by ColourOfFire I don't think shredding is wrong. It's cool to be able to shred. I don't master it properly, but I practice to do so. But there's a difference between being able to do it, and use it moderately, and just play as fast as possible all the time. If your music is only playing as fast as you can with some lyrics over it to make it look like a song I think you're doing the wrong thing, but shredding is very cool when used correctly. But thats the great thing about music, its that you can do that. There really are no limits. There are bands that cover the whole range, from simple singer-songwriter music, all the way to over the top extreme shred, and people can choose to listen to whichever they want. There are obviously some people who like the stuff because these guys sell records and get people coming to their shows. So whats wrong with that???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Europa760 Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 why would anyone listen to music they dont like? how can you have the time to complain about {censored}? that means you must spend a fair amount of time doing unnecessary things you dont like. makes me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rydia is hot Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 i try not to bash something that requires talent just because because i don't enjoy it, such as most shred. bashing things that i don't enjoy and lack talent, such as numetal flogging, on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Europa760 why would anyone listen to music they dont like?how can you have the time to complain about {censored}? that means you must spend a fair amount of time doing unnecessary things you dont like.makes me laugh. Exactly, by that reasoning I should start a thread bashing Santana (you know I love santana though:love: ) because he doesnt play enough brutal downtuned riffs, I mean sure soulfull latin music inspired rock fusion is great and all. However it should be used in moderation, because too much of it has no emotion and is boring. So he should stop doing so much of that tastefull soloing and add some more C# downtuned brutal riffs:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Europa760 Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Alchemist Exactly, by that reasoning I should start a thread bashing Santana (you know I love santana though:love: ) because he doesnt play enough brutal downtuned riffs, I mean sure soulfull latin music inspired rock fusion is great and all. However it should be used in moderation, because too much of it has no emotion and is boring. So he should stop doing so much of that tastefull soloing and add some more C# downtuned brutal riffs:rolleyes: for real, thats all he {censored}in does. i cant stand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wfranklin Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 in addition to jealousy, i see alot of this being a generational divide, like a midlife crisis. "if its not like it was when i was a kid (the 60's/70's) then its invalid". Not to stereotype, but the only people ive ever heard really bash (read stereotype) shredding as completely invalid are old white men, who are stereotyped as being soulless themselves. thats kinda deep to me. people assume the blues is so soulful, but it would be nothing without the personal experiences of its creators, which were societal marginalization, the denial of basic human rights, abject poverty, racialized hatred and terrorism, addiction, abuse, and general universal hardship. our modern world reflects very little of that. those experiences are present in todays society, but at no where near the intensity of the past. how so then could a person having never experienced those things play with emotional content in a style that chronicles that historial experience? how egotistical is it to say "i play with soul"? to me that is the "wank" part of the whole shred bashing argument. not the guitarists who try to play the best they can, but the guitarists who are straight up feeling themselves for clinging to a style they don't fully understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Moveable Beast Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by maxnew40 Just remember that the average person will never understand the difference between shred and normal playing. You might impress another musicain but your average music listener doesn't give a damn how many notes you can play per second. If the song isn't good and catchy no amount of over the top playing can fix it.It is great to be able to play the best you can, just don't expect regular people to give a crap. 100% correct. Still, for guitar players to eschew technical excellence is stupid, and making excuses won't cover up their lack of dedication to the instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Europa760 Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by wfranklin in addition to jealousy, i see alot of this being a generational divide, like a midlife crisis. "if its not like it was when i was a kid (the 60's/70's) then its invalid". Not to stereotype, but the only people ive ever heard really bash (read stereotype) shredding as completely invalid are old white men, who are stereotyped as being soulless themselves. thats kinda deep to me. people assume the blues is so soulful, but it would be nothing without the personal experiences of its creators, which were societal marginalization, the denial of basic human rights, abject poverty, racialized hatred and terrorism, addiction, abuse, and general universal hardship. our modern world reflects very little of that. those experiences are present in todays society, but at no where near the intensity of the past. how so then could a person having never experienced those things play with emotional content in a style that chronicles that historial experience?how egotistical is it to say "i play with soul"? to me that is the "wank" part of the whole shred bashing argument. not the guitarists who try to play the best they can, but the guitarists who are straight up feeling themselves for clinging to a style they don't fully understand. i love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Moveable Beast Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Europa760 the technique is a separate issue from style. people think shred is some type of music. its simply a technique.jazz guys can shred. country guys can shred. classical guys can shred. This is an excellent point. You don't hear guys putting down country players for being able to play a mile a minute up and down the fretboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Norcal_GIT_r Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Knottyhed What the hell is wrong with wanting to attain a virtuoso level of skill on the guitar? Nothing, BUT playing your scales as fast as you can does not make you a virtuoso. To be a virtuoso you need to master your instrument in all styles and techinques.That means you need to be able to play the sickest chord changes and then be able solo over that same set of changes.You need to be able to do this on any guitar. Not just with an Ibanez over a saturated distortion tone and delay. Anyone can sound like a shredder this way. You need to be able to do it all clean. I get the feeling you think speed makes you a virtuoso. Hell speed doesnt even make you a good player. Look at Micheal Angelo, I took a clinic years ago from this guy. He is so high on himself and plays so fast it sounds like nintendo. Not very musical to my ears.Yet he insited that his self proclaimed title of being the fastest guitarist on earth made him one of the greats. Not so. His playing sounded terrible and he spent too much time straightening his wig out between tunes. If you want to shred fine, but I think you are miss guided thinking the more you shred the faster you'll become a virtuoso. Sorry just aint gonna happen. But keep practicing and learning your instrument and in time you may actually figure out what makes a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theManfromAlabam Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 As an addition to a song as a part, shred is very cool...but to shred to back tracking and have the shred as the main focus = {censored}ing weak...just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matter-Eater Lad Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 It has always puzzled me why playing fast and having great skill in classical, country, bluegrass, jazz is always positive but in rock it's frowned upon.Though bluegrass mandolin players almost always play fast. Banjo would be boring as hell if they weren't picking the hell out of it constantly. The shred bashing comes from people who can't do it or are to lazy to aquire the skill. It's BS to say the average listener doesn't know the difference between fast and slow playing. You can witness their appreciation in the genres I mentioned before, after a guy will play a fast passage they will applaud. In a way, it's the idiot way of showing off BECAUSE the audience gets it so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Norcal_GIT_r Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Matter-Eater Lad It has always puzzled me why playing fast in classical, country, bluegrass, jazz is always positive but in rock it's frowned upon.Though bluegrass mandolin players almost always play fast. Banjo would be boring as hell if they weren't picking the hell out of it constantly. The shred bashing comes from people who can't do it or are to lazy to aquire the skill. Just because you play fast doesnt mean you have skills or that it sounds good. I think people bash it in rock because its easy to sound like you are playing fast with the distortion cranked and a delay running. It takes a very skilled player to take a fast run and make it interesting. Thats something that is lacking in rock. In country and bluegrass the speed pickers are playing clean and you can hear every note that is played.In a lot of the fast rock stuff, note seperation is lost in all the distortion and leggato licks.A good test to see if you are a truely gifted fast player is to play your shred on an acoustic guitar or a totally clean tele and see if you sound as "good" as you think you are with the distortion cranked. If you don't sound as good you need more practice and thats why people bash rockers for thinking they are fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrfan Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 After reading just the first post, Yes!Although I do prefer shredders with soulfull playing.I would rather listen to Gary Hoey than Malmsteen anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burn Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by wfranklin those experiences are present in todays society, but at no where near the intensity of the past. how so then could a person having never experienced those things play with emotional content in a style that chronicles that historial experience? Yes, and the reverse is true as well. Nobody is "soulless." Everyone had their experiences, good and bad. Except perhaps very young children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burn Posted January 18, 2006 Members Share Posted January 18, 2006 Originally posted by Norcal_GIT_r In a lot of the fast rock stuff, note seperation is lost in all the distortion and leggato licks. Yes, but not all rock "shredders" are all show and no go. This clip has plenty of saturated distortion; check it out: ---> Petrucci solo track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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