Members BushmasterM4 Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Sorry, not sure what you mean. You do realize that I was naming the plugin as a joke, though, right? Thanks. Yes I do I dont use too many plugins either and try to get the sound Im looking for with the gear. But growing up in the consumer analog world, listening to high end gear as a young lad. I love that sound of records and tapes mixed off those old consoles and tape. Well I dont have a zillion dollars to buy a vintage console and record to tape. And straight forward digital recordings just doesnt cut it for me. So for a few hundred dollars if a plugin will help out in acheiving that sound, why not ? I do own Slate VCC and agree with Craigs take on it. Now this is where Slates VTM comes in to play. The combination of the VTM plugin then the VCC plugin on all tracks or sub mixes (whatever) is suppose get the sound even closer. So if these "snake oil" plugins get me closer to that sound, I will drink it. And I dont have to mortgage the house to buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted June 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 As a user of virtual instruments, it doesn't bother me at all for a plug-in to be named "virtual" anything. The name says it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 The bottom line for me is whether or not it sounds good That's an odd way to evaluate a plug-in. Might be a good topic for an article! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted July 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 LOL! It might be at that. Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huh? Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 Faerie dust is faerie dust. Doesn't matter how you get it or where. As long as you have it to sprinkle on the session and as long as it performs it's magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted July 1, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yes I agree completely. Not sure if it's for the same reasons you object to the term, but I wish they'd stop misleading people. This is no more credible than boner pill commercials on late night TV. . Not sure what you're trying to say here, but "boner pills" certainly work or they wouldn't be selling so well. I'd say some tape emulations get pretty close too. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huh? Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 And they are not just late night now. Those commercials are playing when my kids are up and during the day on Sirius radio too......which I use to listen to the only stations worth listening to....... Sirius Patriot and Fox News.:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Gnash Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 Rumor has it that there is new bathroom simulator plug-in under development. You can open or close the toilet lid and adjust the shower curtain. When you crank the gain you can rattle objects in the medicine cabinet. The manufacturer will be selling additional virtual shower curtains and virtual toilet lids for $9.99 each. And you can get a virtual medicine jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted July 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 For those who'd like an overview of the plug-in, here's a video that has been posted on the web: [YOUTUBE]a83wBihRFkg[/YOUTUBE] Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 1, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yes I agree completely. Not sure if it's for the same reasons you object to the term, but I wish they'd stop misleading people. This is no more credible than boner pill commercials on late night TV. Tape simulation plugs do something to alter the sound of course, but that's all one can say. Characterizing the effect as tape-like is totally subjective. And all this nonsense about simulating specific machines and tape formulations is utterly ridiculous. These claims and sales pitches are not written for people that understand magnetic recording, but rather they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 I'm much more interested in using emulation technology to create sounds that don't exist in the real world. If I want the sound of a tube amp, I have a DT25 sitting right next to me But if I want the sound of a tube amp that doesn't exist, I can do that with emulation. By definition, it can't be compared to reality because there is no corresponding reality. Well, I know that. We share that interest. But I'm also interested in making something sound better. If this Slate device doesn't make something sound better, I'm not interested. If it makes the audio sound better but doesn't exactly mimic a tape machine, then I'm still interested. For instance, the Massey Tapehead plugin doesn't sound all that much like tape saturation to me. But I like what it does to the audio quite often. That's more where my interests lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 I do own Slate VCC and agree with Craigs take on it. Now this is where Slates VTM comes in to play. The combination of the VTM plugin then the VCC plugin on all tracks or sub mixes (whatever) is suppose get the sound even closer. So if these "snake oil" plugins get me closer to that sound, I will drink it. And I dont have to mortgage the house to buy it Yup. See my above take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 VCC emulates these non-linearities, and when you enable/disable it, although subtle you can definitely hear there's more of a defined soundstage with it enabled. Normally I don't really put much stock in those kind of plug-ins, nor do they give me sounds I actually want, but the VCC surprised me. But also, you've been using Pro Tools, right? Don't recall if you're using TDM or not, but remember, every time a signal goes on the TDM bus it's dithered to 24 bits. This adds up over time. PT RTAS (not TDM). And I keep hearing good things about the VCC, but you know, it's good to be a bit skeptical. Just not too skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huh? Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 Okay.... bee-yaas ....waysome........ and den........ for you taste....... modelized the noise..... wow wow flutteah....pitch modulation can be very very very for example cruel for me I'm use eet on kinda koreesed type of matereal vocals......korees.....noteesubble.......frekwensee ressponsuh.....bass alainmont LOL.......that's my own take and then I just noticed the CC stuff going on actually in the video......it's hilarious ..."uh holds and relax all the things I have some curry summit I'm running for".........LMAO!! Cool video. It's like watching a Monty Python movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 I love VCC and can't WAIT TO GET VTM!!! Slate stuff is the Bees Knees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted July 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 Here's another take, this time in Pro Tools: [video=youtube;4fro4Zrpyas] Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 You're sort of the Rush Limbaugh of audio forums. I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 What the recording community really needs is a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huh? Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 Here's another take, this time in Pro Tools Aah finally.......the English language as spoken by an Englishman. LOL.......I'm just having fun with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bookumdano2 Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm gonna have to re-think something. This Pro Tools expert guy and a whole bunch of kids post demos where (like at 12:09 minutes on the protools expert guy) they absolutely plow the signal into a pinned meter/red led and say... oooh.. listen to the analog distortion. The protools expert guy really truly says that... just listen to him at about 12:09....he distorts a Wurli with pinned meters and says "hear that?". Uh yeah... I hear it. It sucks. It's distorted. I never run tape that high. Do you run tape that high? Does anyone run tape that high? Did anyone ever run tape that high? Is that supposed to sound good that high? Would you really pin the meters like that on your tape machine? Do kids really think that pinning the meters is how you get t-h-a-t good ol tape sound? Did I miss a decade there somewhere? I have to re-think if I ever heard of anyone on the planet actually doing that on a tape machine. I'd fire up a machine now and try it, but I don't want to. I know what things sound like when the meters are pinned to the right side. I like that everyone is trying to do a tape machine in software. It can only get better. I will be happy when the day arrives where I finally turn off the tape machines for the last time. Not that I fire them up much now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 Are you serious? People have always believed in weirdass stuff and hype. And they always will.As for amateurs, it was amateur, man-on-the-street types who said (and proved in double-blind tests) that they could hear the deleterious effects of CBS's copycode scheme. It was the pro engineer, golden ears types who gave it a clean bill of health. Just sayin.' Yes, that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 When it comes to plugin-created audio illusions, I'm still not 100% sure why someone would want to gratuitously muddy the sound... That is to say, not inject sound muddiers for momentary effects, but have them running throughout one's songs, albums. Besides hiss, wow and flutter, I don't know if I hear anything unusually identifiable coming through on virtual tape emulators... Or anything that would make me say, "Gee I gotta have THAT!" I've been listening to my Chesky Audiophile CD, and that's some gorgeous music done nakedly in the digital domain with all crystalline frequencies a-blazin'. I can't fault it... it sounds stunning. When it comes to audio illusions, I think my favorite is still the HTRF 3D tricks.... I'm amazed that no-one seems excited about implementing it. I would think XYZ placement was what it's all about in mixing! But i haven't the ears, education or experience you guys have... What do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 I haven't heard it, but like I say, even if it doesn't sound authentic...does it make the audio sound better? If someone's improved the sound of what's coming out of a DAW, I say great. If not, let's move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 I never run tape that high. Do you run tape that high? Does anyone run tape that high? Did anyone ever run tape that high? Is that supposed to sound good that high? Would you really pin the meters like that on your tape machine? Do kids really think that pinning the meters is how you get t-h-a-t good ol tape sound? Did I miss a decade there somewhere? Some engineers DID use tape as a signal processor, mostly to clip transients in drums so they could get a higher average level. Some mastering engineers smashed the crap out of tape, just like people do now with maximizers, because they liked that sound or the band wanted that sound. Some were just ignorant and set levels on the tambourine the same as for other instruments Other engineers lovingly tweaked the bias to choose the absolute best tradeoff among lowest distortion, lowest noise, and hottest signal. That was a real art. I noticed that many of the uber-best tape recorders started distorting at around -20dB. It was very slight, but you could definitely tell it wasn't a sine wave any more. This just increased linearly as levels got higher, so even if it didn't look like there was distortion...there was distortion. I think it's these lower-level artifacts that provide "the tape sound" that tape fans favor, as opposed to the smashed tape sound which was also in vogue from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 When it comes to plugin-created audio illusions, I'm still not 100% sure why someone would want to gratuitously muddy the sound... That is to say, not inject sound muddiers for momentary effects, but have them running throughout one's songs, albums. Besides hiss, wow and flutter, I don't know if I hear anything unusually identifiable coming through on virtual tape emulators... Or anything that would make me say, "Gee I gotta have THAT!" I've been listening to my Chesky Audiophile CD, and that's some gorgeous music done nakedly in the digital domain with all crystalline frequencies a-blazin'. I can't fault it... it sounds stunning. When it comes to audio illusions, I think my favorite is still the HTRF 3D tricks.... I'm amazed that no-one seems excited about implementing it. I would think XYZ placement was what it's all about in mixing! But i haven't the ears, education or experience you guys have... What do I know? I agree and I disagree. My goal is as clean a sound as possible; the idea of adding intentional muddiness, wow, flutter, etc. doesn't appeal. One of the coolest approaches to plug-ins EVER was the IK Multimedia virtual instrument with old pianos, mellotrons, etc. The Mellotron had two variations - you could either call up a version with all the warts of the Mellotron, or a cleaned-up version that was like an ideal Mellotron. I always chose the ideal version because that's my taste. OTOH when Waves did their Aural Exciter, they included a noise component (switchable, thankfully!) that was part of the original. I thought that was silly, and talked with them about it. Well, turns out when they were testing the plug-in, people who were intimately familiar with the original thought it just didn't "sound right." As soon as Waves modeled the noise, then it "sounded right" to these people. Also on the OTOH I've played with musicians like Dr. Walker to whom lo-fi is a goal. He uses lo-fi extremely creatively, similarly to how guitarists use distortion. But he thinks the idea of using things like lo-fi plug-ins are kind of dumb. He'd much rather get his sound by incinerating an actual speaker in real time There are times when lo-fi works - the drum sound on early Elvis Costello albums, for example. I doubt it was an accident because it fits so well with the music, but who knows? Maybe the music shaped itself around the drum sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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