It's Official: Pop music too loud and all sounds the same

[Jimbroni]

 

I was wondering if you tell us about some pop that is really {censored}ing creative and all over the map these days. I'd love to get turned on to some really great stuff. Thanks.

 

 

Come on dude. I'm not going to be able to tell about some pop group you haven't heard of. My point is this. There is no everybody wants to sound like the stones or beatles; or everybody want to sound like public enemy ; or everybody wants to sound like nirvana; or everybody wants to be like guns n roses, everybody wants to be Motown.. The thing I like... is there is Kings of Leon, Nicki Minaj, Adele, Black Keys, Shakira, Gotye, Wilco, Radiohead, Air, Lady Gaga.. You may not like it. Thats fine but to me. I love that there is no constant. there is no one style that everyone is shooting for and that in and of itself is perfection to me. I mean this argument about over compression mostly applies only to sophomoric rock that sucks anyway. And / or Nashville {censored}, which pisses me off more than anything because the most talented MF's in the US live there and continue to make bull{censored}.

 

Though if you want some ideas to listen to not necessarily all pop though.

 

My current fav 3 records

Dr John - Locked Down. Produced by Dan Auerbach from the Black Keys in '12 its bad ass.

Norah Jones - Little Broken Hearts (very well maybe the sexiest record of 2012)

Shakira - her MTV unplugged is a must have, her newest Sale del Sol is pretty nice too.

 

And from a few years ago but an under the radar throw back to Fela Kuti

Antibalas Afrobeat Orchestra

[Jimbroni]

Well Rasputin, you make it hard to argue. Of course your right about harmonic implications, and as a bass player myself I always felt that the bass players roll in those harmonic implications was not only instrumental but in some cases the primary force behind that harmonic push in many of those old tunes. In fact, I even had thread quite a while back about the 60's style bass line that got into this. Witchita Lineman is the epitomy of that method. But that said, I disagree to some affect. One I believe the point of music has always been to shock the audience. Maybe not in such a overt way. But still the point was to shock.. to bring out emotions. Miles is still the scariest sounding thing I've ever heard, btw. There's a void of blackness in him that is just....

 

To me lately, it seems more artists are looking back. I think everybody is at point where its like seriously what else can we do, lets start making art again cuz whatever we've seen it all and were not making money at this {censored} anyway. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong but I'm seeing it more and more out of artists, going back to makin unique music and/or Pure/Traditional Music.

[rasputin1963]

Which one of us here recently suggested that every parameter of pop song making had now been mostly exhausted... save for timbral experimentation? I wonder if that's true. The idea that the most fertile musical area to mine these days was creating ever more exotic and unusual sonic timbres...

[Philter]

I agree that there is a lot of stupid out there in pop music right now. I think a big part of the problem is that the market for older listeners has basically disappeared, and simultaneously the state of music education for young people is at a low point. So you have what's left of the pop music industry aimed at a very narrow, uneducated demographic. Everyone else is left to make do with the fringes and the best stuff from the past.

 

However I know there is good stuff out there right now... it's just hard to find without the labels to promote good AOR stuff. The market is fractured, older musicians are broke and/or not recording since theres little money in recording any more. Who can afford to spend the decades it takes to really master song writing when there's no market for it any longer? And the people who do take the time are probably so broke because of it, how will they ever get their music in front of you?

 

However I think it's silly to suggest that every parameter of pop song making has been exhausted. I don't think that shows an understanding of how there are basically an infinite number of melody/lyric/chord/instrumentation choices out there. As far as timbral experimentation, that's great, but it aint nothin on its own except sound effects.

 

I think it's really important these days to help promote good stuff when you find it. I would like to plug these guys again, because I think they show a huge amount of promise: http://www.paucity.us/media.html I have nothing to do with them, just love the music. Their entire latest album streams free off their website.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Come on dude. I'm not going to be able to tell about some pop group you haven't heard of. My point is this. There is no everybody wants to sound like the stones or beatles; or everybody want to sound like public enemy ; or everybody wants to sound like nirvana; or everybody wants to be like guns n roses, everybody wants to be Motown.. The thing I like... is there is Kings of Leon, Nicki Minaj, Adele, Black Keys, Shakira, Gotye, Wilco, Radiohead, Air, Lady Gaga.. You may not like it. Thats fine but to me. I love that there is no constant. there is no one style that everyone is shooting for and that in and of itself is perfection to me. I mean this argument about over compression mostly applies only to sophomoric rock that sucks anyway. And / or Nashville {censored}, which pisses me off more than anything because the most talented MF's in the US live there and continue to make bull{censored}. Though if you want some ideas to listen to not necessarily all pop though. My current fav 3 records Dr John - Locked Down. Produced by Dan Auerbach from the Black Keys in '12 its bad ass. Norah Jones - Little Broken Hearts (very well maybe the sexiest record of 2012) Shakira - her MTV unplugged is a must have, her newest Sale del Sol is pretty nice too. And from a few years ago but an under the radar throw back to Fela Kuti Antibalas Afrobeat Orchestra

 

 

I do like Antibalas, and thought they were good live.

 

I like Kings of Leon (but more their first two albums), Adele, some Wilco, love Radiohead, I do like Air and some Lady Gaga.

 

Not sure what the "come on dude I'm not going to be able to tell about some pop group you haven't heard of" or discussion about over-compression is. I meant what I posted: "I was wondering if you tell us about some pop that is really {censored}ing creative and all over the map these days. I'd love to get turned on to some really great stuff. Thanks." When someone says that they like really creative stuff, I'm all over that. I want to hear about what's up because I love hearing new stuff.

[rasputin1963]

 

I think a big part of the problem is that the market for older listeners has basically disappeared, and simultaneously the state of music education for young people is at a low point. So you have what's left of the pop music industry aimed at a very narrow, uneducated demographic. Everyone else is left to make do with the fringes and the best stuff from the past.

 

 

You've nailed it.

[BlueGreene]

Not really the "chew on"-able harmonic context people seem to miss, but Elephant Revival has some of that pop-folk sound I oh so enjoy. None of that youngin clappy square wave {censored}.

 

Elephant Revival (grooveshark)

 

(just buy the whole album, you wont regret it -- And do yourself a favor and buy their first album when you're at it)

[UstadKhanAli]

Listening to Elephant Revival right now....sounding good so far. Thanks!

[Lee Knight]

 

Well Rasputin, you make it hard to argue. Of course your right about harmonic implications, and as a bass player myself I always felt that the bass players roll in those harmonic implications was not only instrumental but in some cases the primary force behind that harmonic push in many of those old tunes. In fact, I even had thread quite a while back about the 60's style bass line that got into this. Witchita Lineman is the epitomy of that method. But that said, I disagree to some affect. One I believe the point of music has always been to shock the audience. Maybe not in such a overt way. But still the point was to shock.. to bring out emotions. Miles is still the scariest sounding thing I've ever heard, btw. There's a void of blackness in him that is just.... To me lately, it seems more artists are looking back. I think everybody is at point where its like seriously what else can we do, lets start making art again cuz whatever we've seen it all and were not making money at this {censored} anyway. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong but I'm seeing it more and more out of artists, going back to makin unique music and/or Pure/Traditional Music.

 

 

I absolutely love your perspective on this.

[Ernest Buckley]

 

It's pop music. It's really hard to make money off digital records these days so they stick to the model they think will sell. Moving to digital production (if that's what you speak of, not digital recordings) has nothing to do with it.

 

 

I agree with this BlueGreene. Technology does not drive art, it drives sales to an extent. Pop music is about reaching the common denominator and "3 chords and the truth" is the rule (give or take a VI chord).

 

With that said, there is an art to writing a song with 3 chords and the truth whatever that may be.

 

If anything, what has changed is what pop music used to be pre 1955 or so. We have seen a decrease in chord vocabulary since the late 50s and just about every song on the radio today is about going out dancing, drinking and getting it on. The theme is still the same as it was 50+ years ago but they just said it more eloquently back in the day.

[Ernest Buckley]

 

 

 

Amen.

[UstadKhanAli]

This is an article about more or less the same thing on a Scientific American blog in case anyone is interested: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/07/26/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/

[flatfinger]

:love:"chew on"-able harmonic context":love:

 

Hell , some folks are recommending a dumb down to the point of not even bothering with those sophisticated bridge/middle eighth things !!!!

 

http://www.musicthinktank.com/blog/the-death-of-the-bridge.html

[Bucksstudent]

I really like "Die Young."

[Folder]

 

The current brand of POP is really {censored}ing creative and all over the map these days IMO.

 

 

I've always loved pop music.

 

When I was a child I used to have a white Panasonic Panapet.

It was a ball shaped radio on a chain that I carried with me just about everywhere I went.

 

I would listen to the top 40 countdowns and hear a "wide" variety of musical styles.

I heard rock, soul, R&B, jazz, folk, blues, funk, country, light rock, hard rock, swing, disco and cool stuff that just couldn't be categorized. Most of the music of my youth has stood the test of time and is now called classic rock.

 

As I got older my tastes widened but I always kept my ear on what was going on in the world of pop music.

 

Up until a few years ago I still listened to top 40 radio but I don't have any top 40 stations in my radio dial anymore because I find most of it offensive.

 

It seems to me that today's pop music has become very formulaic and I personally can't stand the recipe.

 

In my "What Happened to Rock Radio" thread I made the mistake of assuming that what I was hearing where I live was the same as what people were hearing in other parts of the country so I decided to check the Billboard pop charts to make sure I'm not living on a different planet than you are.

 

These are the current top five songs that are on the billboard pop charts.

 

Here are my personal reviews.

 

#1 Pink, Blow Me (One Last Kiss)

 

I couldn't even count how many curse words were in this song.

How is this even played on the radio? Do they bleep out most of the lyrics?

The heavily quantized fake techno bass drum dominates the mix and is distracting.

The cheesy vocal inflections sound forced and trendy.

Cliched, emotionless, grinding, grunge guitars. (are they even real)?

Everything is looped to the grid and way too loud.

I guess this is supposed to be a dance song but it has zero soul or groove.

If I were dancing at a disco and this came on it would make me want to go sit down.

If I heard this on the radio I'd probably call the station manager to complain.

 

#2 Maroon 5, One More Night

 

Don't like the cheesy vocal style. Is this the legacy of American Idol?

Heavily quantized techno bass drum.

Everything about it sounds fake and forced. The vocals sound over processed.

Everything sounds to the grid and looped.

It sounds like the producer convinced the band to make a dance record.

I saw this band play live 7 or 8 years ago and they could really play their instruments and jam with feeling.

I guess you could say I hate everything about this record.

 

#3 Flo Rida, Whistle

 

If I knew my child was listening to this one they'd be grounded.

Don't know where to start. Can't stand anything about it.

Heavily quantized looped drums

Fake mechanical drum rolls . Everything including acoustic guitar sounds looped.

Terrible vocals.

Despise is not a strong enough word for this one.

 

#4 Neon Trees, Everybody Talks

 

Not too wild about the vocal style or the production.

Emotionless, grunge guitars. Everything is way too loud.

But I could see it growing on me with repeated listenings.

This is the only one that I really feel has any artistic integrity..

If only it had been produced tastefully.

 

#5 Owl City and Carly Rae Jepson, Good Time

 

I don't know what vocal style this is but I can't stand it.

Is this what they call emo vocals? Or is it spoiled, snot nosed, brat, style?

Heavily quantized techno bass drum. Everything looped and to the grid.

Fake mechanical drum rolls and those obnoxious electronic clappy sound samples

make this one virtually un-listenable for me.

I hate everything about this record

 

I don't consider any of these song to be serious music.

 

They all sound like they were designed to be used and thrown away like a soggy paper plate. They are disposable and I can't see any of them standing the test of time.

 

All of these records sound mechanical, non-dynamic and soulless to me.

 

This kind of music is the reason that myself and most of my friends can no longer listen to the radio where we live. It is pervasive.

 

It seems that today's music business has decided that they are only interested in promoting music that fits their new "formula".

 

I can't help but believe that American Idol and today's "famous for being famous" culture are the main ingredients fueling this trashy recipe.

[Jimbroni]

Interesting you use formulaic as your main argument. Yet I find very few similarities between these 5 songs you've just named.

 

And I dig the Pink song, it somehow feel like mid to late eighties. Maybe its the guitar grooves that kinda reminds me of INXS. And her vocal is very strong and emotional on that song, very convincing.

 

I really don't like Adam Levine's voice, so I'm really wrong judge on that.

 

I liked the other Flo Rida hit Wild ones with SIA, the whistle one yeah it's not very special its just there.

 

I couldn't disagree more with your opinion on Neon Trees, its nothing revolutionary. But its a solid going back to school hit. Well written, Energetic and fun, but I don't hear where you say its emotionless, and the mix is well done IMO. It doesn't seem over amped to me at all.

 

I don't know about the Carly Rae Jepsen, that's marketed for way too young of kids for me to relate.

 

I dunno know where its at on the charts, but I'm really loving the new Alicia Keys hit girl on fire

And a little more off broadway, I'm diggin the 212 by Azaelia Banks, it gets me pumped and its such a cheesy plasticky drum machine sound they're using. Yet it provides this canvas for her to showcase why she is on the Radar. Straight up skilz. Her rap is so energetic and flowing. What a talent.

[Folder]

I don't know about the Carly Rae Jepsen, that's marketed for way too young of kids for me to relate.

 

Essentially this my main problem with modern pop music.

It's all marketed for way too young of kids for me to relate.

 

Even Adult Contemporary radio stations are playing teen pop music.

Are young people expected to grow up anymore?

 

When I was a kid we had "teen pop" stars.

Young pre-teen kids would buy their albums and swoon.

Within a few years the kids would mature and and their musical tastes would expand.

Very few of the "teen pop" stars would go on to have careers in music.

They were prefabricated products designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

 

But they didn't dominate the pop music charts.

They were a component of a broader spectrum of popular music.

 

Today we have teen pop stars who have been making records for 15 years or more.

Most of these teen pop stars are still making teen pop records.

We have new up and coming teen pop stars coming on the scene saying that their musical influences are teen pop stars who are now approaching middle age.

 

Over the last five years or so this "teen pop" music has become the dominate form of music on the pop charts.

 

"Serious musicians" no longer have an outlet on pop radio anymore.

 

I don't know how you can not hear any similarities in these top five billboard songs.

I hear a specific production formula involving a heavy bass drum, everything to the grid and looped, simple grunge guitars and everything super loud. I hear this formula everywhere. It's even in TV and radio commercials.

 

PS. I still like some of the teen pop hits of my youth. Some of them were written by talented songwriters and performed by the greatest studio musicians of all time.

 

And some of them still get played on the radio.

[Vito Corleone]

Essentially this my main problem with modern pop music. It's all marketed for way too young of kids for me to relate.

 

What else is new?

 

PS. I still like some of the teen pop hits of my youth. Some of them were written by talented songwriters and performed by the greatest studio musicians of all time.

 

Oh, OK.

 

And some of them still get played on the radio.

 

If you don't think today's youth will be listening to today's hits 20/30 years from now on whatever-it-is-that-passes for "classic/oldies" radio then you don't have a clue how pop culture and human nature works.

 

I don't know whether to be more embarrassed or more bored when I read threads like this as 50-something male. The "today's music sucks" line is as old as music itself. And now there's "scientific proof" to back it up!

 

You're right. Modern pop music isn't marketed to you. That doesn't make it inferior. It just makes it something else for somebody else. I, too, prefer the music of MY youth. That's human nature.

[mstreck]

From a 1972 Archie comic

 

At least those are NOTES coming out of it and not just noise.

[Folder]

I, too, prefer the music of MY youth. That's human nature.

 

I think it's human nature to like music you like.

 

I don't judge music based on who it is marketed to or what time period it was recorded in. I judge music based on things like melody, harmonic content and feeling.

 

There will always be some popular music from each generation that will stand the test of time. There's a lot of great music being made today that I believe will stand the test of time but I don't hear very much of it on the radio and that's what bothers me.

[Vito Corleone]

Sure they were. Top 40 radio from the 1950s on was pretty much all ABOUT marketing to teens. American Bandstand certainly wasn't interested in whether my parents watched it on Saturday afternoon or not. As far as comparing eras? Leaving the nostalgia aspect that makes us prefer our own youth aside, I think the bigger issue is we think of today's music as "what's on the radio today" while our brains pick and choose the best material from a wider time period when we think about the past. But I'm not so certain that the Top 40 from any particular week 30 years ago was any better objectively than it is today. In fact, let's look: Here's the top 10 singles from this week in 1982: No. 1, "Who Can It Be Now?," Men at Work No. 2, "Jack and Diane," John Cougar No. 3, "Eye in the Sky," The Alan Parsons Project No. 4, "I Keep Forgettin' (Every Time You're Near)," Michael McDonald No. 5, "Up Where We Belong," Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warnes No. 6, "Heart Attack," Olivia Newton-John No. 7, "Somebody's Baby," Jackson Browne No. 8, "You Can Do Magic," America No. 9, "I Ran," A Flock of Seagulls No. 10, "Heartlight," Neil Diamond Is that really such a great list? Is it really that much worse than this weeks top 10? "Jack and Diane" is probably the only true standard on that list. "Who Can It Be Now" and "I Ran" have had legs as 80s nostalgia pieces, but that's about it. The rest are virtually unknown except to those people old enough to remember them and still be fans of those acts. But a lot of those people may not be aware there may be music out there that they would like better.   Hmmm...not sure I buy the "people just don't know good music exists" argument. Music is available in a lot of different avenues to a lot of different people. Stuff becomes hits because that's what the majority of people want to hear for the most part. You don't like it so you presume those who do just haven't been exposed to the 'good' stuff? That seems a bit elitist, wouldn't you say?     [quote Ithink it's human nature to like music you like.   I don't judge music based on who it is marketed to or what time period it was recorded in. I judge music based on things like melody, harmonic content and feeling.

You judge it based on your subjective opinion of what good melody, harmonic content and feeling is. Which is based on your own personal prejudices and tastes that are grounded in your age, the time period you grew up in, your culture and environment, etc. There aren't objective standards of things like what is a good melody or feeling for a song.

 

There's a lot of great music being made today that I believe will stand the test of time but I don't hear very much of it on the radio and that's what bothers me.

 

What sort of great music being made today that you believe will stand the test of time isn't being heard on the radio? Stuff that would generally appeal to somebody of your age instead of a teenager? This statement in and of itself sounds like you're judging the music based on who it is marketed to, to me.

[Folder]

 

What sort of great music being made today that you believe will stand the test of time isn't being heard on the radio? Stuff that would generally appeal to somebody of your age instead of a teenager? This statement in and of itself sounds like you're judging the music based on who it is marketed to, to me.

 

 

There is tons of great new music I like. Somebody I'm getting into right now is Fannie Franklin.

 

I feel her song "Get Wet" could possibly appeal to people of all age groups and be a big hit if it could get any airplay but it doesn't have a loud quantized bass drum, it doesn't have looped guitars, it doesn't have any rapping in it, it doesn't have square wave synths, and it doesn't have clap samples.

 

http://www.myspace.com/fannyfranklin/music/songs/02-get-wet-mp3-86528766

 

But I think it's a great record with a lot of soul.

 

I'm 1000 miles away from Atlanta right now. I was in a restaurant last night that was playing a large mix of pop music both new and classic when all of a sudden the Flo Rida "Whistle" song came on and I had to laugh because it was the first time I ever heard it except for on YouTube.

 

But it was part of a much broader mix of good pop music, most of which I never hear on the radio.

[Jimbroni]

 

That's why I made it a point to choose the top five songs on the Billboard pop charts. In defending today's current pop music, Jimbroni listed his current fav 3 records as: Dr John - Locked Down. Produced by Dan Auerbach from the Black Keys in '12 its bad ass. Norah Jones - Little Broken Hearts (very well maybe the sexiest record of 2012) Shakira - her MTV unplugged is a must have, her newest Sale del Sol is pretty nice too. My definition of pop music is pretty broad but I've not heard any of these records on the radio where I live. I wish I could hear them on the radio but there is no format for them. This is my main beef.

 

 

See that's what I mean, Those are definitely modern pop stars. Dr John not so much modern but he is a pop star and that is his latest record.

The topic here is about pop music not what gets played on your local radio stations. Because what they in New York, Detroit, LA, and where ever your at are probably pretty different. I just named my 3 current fav pop albums and just because your local radio station doesn't play those songs, doesn't change the fact that other stations do play them. Whether public, college, online streaming, satelite. These songs get played plenty. And I can't really see how anyone could these 3 artists anything but pop.

[BlueGreene]

Why do all the ratio stations play the same stuff? Clear Channel