USA and pollution

[hawkhuff]

[REMUS]

Your first four responses were: "Yes, I have looked at a global map before." (in response to a question about visiting the US and having an experiential knowledge of its size) ORLY!? and another comment begining "ORLY!?" Now, tell me again, who is it that's being dismissive and aggressive? You began by telling people how they should and shouldn't live. When you begin with something so condescending and patronizing (particularly when your entire personal experience with their culture is less than three weeks), you don't get to call other people "aggressive"...

 

"Do what you want to your own county *shrug*, but you are part of the larger problem if you are proud to have a day to day drive that does 19 mpg.

 

I'm not going to try and make you see my point of view, you live in a different society and culture. But I feel you must know that it is wrong, or you wouldn't be so defensive... it's your planet as much as it is mine."

 

No I believe that is what I said, how you comprehend my typed words is up to you and your intellect.

 

You started the tone with your initial response, I admit I was childish but so were you mate but I thought you were setting the tone for another classic forum meeting of minds.

 

 

You can deviate all you want, but the fact is as you have admitted... your car industry cannot continue the way it is or it will die out, {censored} knows how GM group is going to dig themselves out of their mess... what other large companies are there in the US?

[hawkhuff]

OK, bring it on.

[ThudMaker]

what other large companies are there in the US?

Caterpillar, General Electric, Exxon/Mobil, Motorola, Boeing . . . . .

 

Oh, you mean car companies . . . . .GM owns a percentage of Toyota. Ford owns a percentage of Mazda, etc. All of these companies manufacture vehicles right in the USA.

[REMUS]

Caterpillar, General Electric, Exxon/Mobil, Motorola, Boeing . . . . . Oh, you mean car companies . . . . .GM owns a percentage of Toyota. Ford owns a percentage of Mazda, etc. All of these companies manufacture vehicles right in the USA.

 

I meant American car companies.

[ThudMaker]

I meant American car companies.

You're kidding, right?

[hawkhuff]

Fine, this is why we have ended up in this mess. I didn't know wtf you were going on about because I had a completely different agenda and was still trying to address a different topic because that was all I was interested in. I used SUV's, after hawkwind had brought it up and I used it as a good case and example of a horrible un-efficient transportation. Because if you look at the thread title, this is a topic about the USA and pollution... not public transport, that was just a passing remark as a possible future solution... but the initial problem is a complete contempt for efficiency. If you wish to continue the discussion now we actually have a level playing field and at least I understand your agenda, then i'm happy to. I meant American car companies.

Technically ignoRemus, they are all most inefficient not unefficient.

At best they are all about 15-20% efficiency. In terms of thermodynamics, that is.

And you don't need to look down your bloody nose at me and my American friends. We love our SUVs just fine, we do. :poke:

[chunky-b]

Americans enjoy having the freedom to choose to drive what they want / can afford... Okay, what they can finance.

[King Kashue]

Caterpillar, General Electric, Exxon/Mobil, Motorola, Boeing . . . . . Oh, you mean car companies . . . . .GM owns a percentage of Toyota. Ford owns a percentage of Mazda, etc. All of these companies manufacture vehicles right in the USA.

 

By Market Value, the top five largest corporations in the world are in the US, and none of them are car companies.

 

By Revenues, five of the top ten largest corporations in the world are US, none of them are car companies.

 

By profits, six of the top eight largest corps in the world are US, none of them are car companies.

 

 

And by Forbes's Global 2000 rankings (which is a formula based on a number of factors, including those above), Six of the top seven top corporations in the world are US, none of them are car companies.

 

 

Just as a side note, the top three corporations by profit?

 

Exxon/Mobil - USA

Royal Dutch Shell - Netherlands

British Petroleum - UK

 

Yeah, it's been rough on the oil companies

[ThudMaker]

And you don't need to look down your bloody nose at me and my American friends. We love our SUVs just fine, we do. :poke:

I don't like SUVs personally. I drive a full-size Ford truck. I get about 12-13 MPG. I love it. If more people would drive vehicles like this it would run the world out of oil more quickly, so we can begin using alternatives that much sooner.

[hawkhuff]

I don't like SUVs personally. I drive a full-size Ford truck. I get about 12-13 MPG. I love it. If more people would drive vehicles like this it would run the world out of oil more quickly, so we can begin using alternatives that much sooner.

I really like my Envoy. Great vehicle, two kids and two dogs.

Like I said earlier, I think it will be a gradual but inevitable change over.

I've read some of the estimates of the oil supplies; 50-60 years. I believe we have more than that we just need to find it and I think we will.

[Mudbass]

I don't like SUVs personally. I drive a full-size Ford truck. I get about 12-13 MPG. I love it. If more people would drive vehicles like this it would run the world out of oil more quickly, so we can begin using alternatives that much sooner.

Yeah baby, F250 SuperDuty here. Anybody thinks American cars are inefficient? Let em try towing a 5 ton trailer with a Toyota Corolla and they'll see what inefficient really is.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I can see how driving a big truck could be fun, but I just can't justify buying one if I can also haul my gear around in a small van at half the mpg.

 

 

Meh. Small vans....

 

I had a minivan...a Ford Windstar. Seats 6 in relative comfort, won't fit my PA subs. MPG= ~16.

 

I have an F-150 Super Crew pickup. Seats 5 in excellent comfort, fits my bass rig plus a pretty kickin' PA system (including 2 huge 2x18 subs). MPG=~15.

[ThudMaker]

I really like my Envoy. Great vehicle, two kids and two dogs. Like I said earlier, I think it will be a gradual but inevitable change over. I've read some of the estimates of the oil supplies; 50-60 years. I believe we have more than that we just need to find it and I think we will.

You are correct that it will be gradual. The hybrids are great, but they still aren't anywhere near effective with some of the serious hauling/towing/pulling that I do on occasion. When alternatives are found that provide the same level of highway safety (passing acceleration) and towing/hauling capacity, people will really begin to switch.

[hawkhuff]

You are correct that it will be gradual. The hybrids are great, but they still aren't anywhere near effective with some of the serious hauling/towing/pulling that I do on occasion. When alternatives are found that provide the same level of highway safety (passing acceleration) and towing/hauling capacity, people will really begin to switch.

 

 

Do you agree the economics and technologies will never work unless they do what you just said.

 

Also, has anyone yet said what will happen to all those spent hybrid batteries?

 

I know, never mind those details, right?

[REMUS]

Technically ignoRemus, they are all most inefficient not unefficient. At best they are all about 15-20% efficiency. In terms of thermodynamics, that is. And you don't need to look down your bloody nose at me and my American friends. We love our SUVs just fine, we do. :poke:

I like trucks, I have a Tacoma/Hilux myself on lpg and I have no problem with SUV's in general (like their size) just their engines!

I love guns, music, beer, bikes and hotrods as much as any man... but the whole global warming and running out of fossil fuels is starting to worry me to the extent i'm thinking about actively supporting organizations that might help actually change our way of life for a better less damaging alternative.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I didn't say every car made meets USA emissions nor did I say that every country in the world has adopted every emissions requirement in use in the USA. I just said that many countries don't need to set their own emissions requirements into law because of USA requirements that are already in place.

 

 

You're assuming that cars made or sold outside the US have US pollution controls installed. By and large, they don't.

[ThudMaker]

Do you agree the economics and technologies will never work unless they do what you just said. Also, has anyone yet said what will happen to all those spent hybrid batteries? I know, never mind those details, right?

Absolutely. I'd convert my house to solar right now, but the cost is simply prohibitive. A Toyota Prius is a viable and very nice car. Those spent hybrid batteries will be upgraded to fresh, more efficient ones and the old casings will be recycled.

[REMUS]

What like India, China and Russian?

 

 

Absolutely. I'd convert my house to solar right now, but the cost is simply prohibitive. A Toyota Prius is a viable and very nice car. Those spent hybrid batteries will be upgraded to fresh, more efficient ones and the old casings will be recycled.

 

 

Wind is supposed to be the most advanced at the moment as the most viable alternative.

 

Infact if you have it wired into the grid and you actually produce more than you use, the power company has to pay you for it!

[Mudbass]

America was founded by Europeans who wanted to get away from Europe.Your lack of knowledge of western civilization history is showing.

And that's another thing that frosts my ass. Europeans are always accusing we Americans of stealing the land from the Indians. Every damned time they start to lose an argument they bring it up. So think about it, exactly who stole what from whom here? It was the Brits and the Sweeds and the Irish and the Germans and the Spanish...in short, it was they, the Europeans who stole the land from the Indains and they go pointing their finger at us and calling us a bunch of evil bastards.

[REMUS]

Yeah but you are what remains of the British, Swedish, Irish and Germans that kicked British controlling force out.

 

You are still descendants of men that pwned the Indians, as much as we are.

[ThudMaker]

Wind is supposed to be the most advanced at the moment as the most viable alternative. Infact if you have it wired into the grid and you actually produce more than you use, the power company has to pay you for it!

Wind farms only work well from a financial investment perspective where the wind blows on average 14 mph and above. It's nowhere near that in the middle portions of the US.

[ThudMaker]

Yeah but you are what remains of the British, Swedish, Irish and Germans that kicked British controlling force out. You are still descendants of men that pwned the Indians, as much as we are.

You need to get off the Indians and pwning crap. And since you weren't over here, you didn't pwn anything.

[King Kashue]

Wind is supposed to be the most advanced at the moment as the most viable alternative.

 

 

Noisy and hugely detrimental (i.e., fatal) to avian life forms, also, it requires a huge amount of land, and thus interferes with natural habitats for countless animals.

 

It does plenty of environmental damage...just because it's localized doesn't mean it's not an issue.

 

 

Solar is what the future is going to be. They already make solar panels durable enough to be used as building roofs and as pavement for streets. It's just a matter of the technology advancing enough that large-scale implementation is viable (the efficiency of the process is increasing at a significant rate, so that a solar panel put in today will be 1/10 as efficient as one built ten years from now, and large scale implementation would be a cost night mare in terms of replacement)...

[ThudMaker]

And that's another thing that frosts my ass. Europeans are always accusing we Americans of stealing the land from the Indians. Every damned time they start to lose an argument they bring it up. So think about it, exactly who stole what from whom here? It was the Brits and the Sweeds and the Irish and the Germans and the Spanish...in short, it was they, the Europeans who stole the land from the Indains and they go pointing their finger at us and calling us a bunch of evil bastards.

Actually we took most of it without the Euros help. We'd kicked the Brits arses off our continent in 2 wars and then went west.