USA and pollution

[King Kashue]

The issue isn't how much americans drive, but which cars they drive. There seems to be a difference in mentality between the US and Europe, between "driving the biggest car you can afford" and "deciding what you need in a car and choosing the most economical", between "car companies sueing the state over emission laws" and "car manufacturers setting voluntary emission standards". I can see how driving a big truck could be fun, but I just can't justify buying one if I can also haul my gear around in a small van at half the mpg.

Now that's a salient comment.

You're right, Americans drive cars that are too inefficient, and that will change as soon as economic forces dictate (despite Remus's comments, the US economy is actually not in dire straights).

Honestly, I would love for everyone to drive a more efficient car. However, I'm not willing to achieve that end by either higher taxes or more government restrictions. Neither are within the government's duties (obviously a matter in which the US and the Continent have differences of opinions).

The future for the US is more efficient cars. Honestly, the future of the world is non combustion power, because climate change or not, air pollution is a very obvious issue (we need to stop burning stuff )

[King Kashue]

Talking afterwards is for women...

[ranjaman]

I didn't say every car made meets USA emissions nor did I say that every country in the world has adopted every emissions requirement in use in the USA. I just said that many countries don't need to set their own emissions requirements into law because of USA requirements that are already in place. If Holland is using unleaded gas for example, then they're using technology set in motion by USA anti-smog regulations. I just get sick to death of the rest of the world looking down their long, oh so superior noses at the big bad polluting USA when every {censored}ing anti-emissions control device they have on their cars started right here. No other country in the world has done more to curb vehicle pollution than the USA and every country in the world who requires smog control is using US inspired techlology to cut pollution. Because of the demands put in place by the USA, car makers have engineered cars that produce 1/100 of the emissions at the tail pipe than cars on the road did 30 years ago. All countries benefit from these improvements not just the USA, but does the USA get any thanks, {censored} no. All we get is Europeans pointing at our SUVs and bitching like a bunch of old women. I'd like to remind them that America was founded and settled by people who don't like Europeans pointing fingers at them and bitching like old women and we still don't.

I would just like to clarify that I also point at my fellow dutchmen driving SUVs and bitch like an old woman.

[hawkhuff]

And KK it seems you are addressing a different topic... I was talking about the future implications of American car culture on the environment and how sustainable it is, you seem to have deviated to the present social, economic, demographic and ecological issues encompassing transportation in the US. You also seem to address topics that branch from my response that suit you and avoid the question or point I raised. There simply isn't any point in continuing this, because it is quickly becoming a personal matter with several people becoming disgruntled. I have visited the US once, for a period of 20 days including travel time.

We will be able to sustain as long as we like. We can all adapt, in fact, we are adapting. This will be a gradual process not some overnight change.

That big sucking noise you hear of the gasoline supply is no longer just the good ol' US of A. It is also China and India.

Still it isn't wrong it just is, for now.

[Rippin' Robin]

My diesel car runs 45 MPG.

 

I'm fine with that. I don't need to worry about my 'carbon footprint'

[hawkhuff]

Talking afterwards is for women...

Yeah, but I have the feeling you do a lot of that after you do the dirty.

Take up smoking.

[REMUS]

So IOW it's OK for you to deviate, but others can't? Is that right? You got steamrolled with your comment about Ford's SUVs. I backed it up with facts that Toyota and Honda are selling plenty nof SUV's in the states. Everyone here, including King Kashue, are addressing your points. Quit making excuses.

 

 

Dear me....

 

Ok this will be the last response to this type of aggressive, ill educated, un-informed trash talk.

 

Ok lets have a look at what I said: "If SUV's are so great, then why is Ford for example in such a crisis in comparison to Japanese and European companies and the $ so weak?"

 

OH YEAH THUD MAKER I SAID "in comparison to the Japanese and European"

 

And how have I deviated from my own argument? Steam rolled... please, I was faced with an extremely confrontational KK as is his style... everything is denied dismissed and disregarded... with easily disputable facts and arguments, that could lead to an extremely protracted discussion that is only feasible in a live chat environment where there aren't so many participants.

[ThudMaker]

Ok i'll bite. Yeah that makes sense... I err.. umm... ok, hmm... so... It wasn't founded by Europeans, it was founded by Europeans who aren't Europeans because they don't like Europeans!! God, I now know i'm a complete idiot and my statement is completely wrong!

It's a good thing you recognize your shortcomings. Let's revisit your post . . . .

"If you knew anything then, you would know that America was founded by Europeans and stolen off the native Indians, most of you are descended from Europeans."

Thanks for the info. No {censored}? I'm of mostly German, Swedish and English descent. Your post indicates that because we are descendants of europeans, that we should act like europeans. Yes, you finally are getting it. We aren't interested in living like euros. Your arrogance and insulting behaviors should be a good indication why.

[Rippin' Robin]

"If SUV's are so great, then why is Ford for example in such a crisis in comparison to Japanese and European companies and the $ so weak?"

 

 

I don't get your point.

[hawkhuff]

Dear me.... Ok this will be the last response to this type of aggressive, ill educated, un-informed trash talk. Ok lets have a look at what I said: "If SUV's are so great, then why is Ford for example in such a crisis in comparison to Japanese and European companies and the $ so weak?" OH YEAH THUD MAKER I SAID "in comparison to the Japanese and European" And how have I deviated from my own argument? Steam rolled... please, I was faced with an extremely confrontational KK as is his style... everything is denied dismissed and disregarded... with easily disputable facts and arguments, that could lead to an extremely protracted discussion that is only feasible in a live chat environment where there aren't so many participants.

Ah, don't let KK get to ya.

He's full of all kinds of useless information, ambiguities, and pomp. He's just toying with ya.

He's really just gay.

[ranjaman]

..... I'm not a chubby chaser...

Too bad, that would be a valid reason to drive a big car.

[King Kashue]

Please, I was faced with an extremely confrontational KK as is his style... everything is denied dismissed and disregarded...

Your first four responses were:



"Yes, I have looked at a global map before." (in response to a question about visiting the US and having an experiential knowledge of its size)

ORLY!?

and another comment begining "ORLY!?"




Now, tell me again, who is it that's being dismissive and aggressive?


You began by telling people how they should and shouldn't live. When you begin with something so condescending and patronizing (particularly when your entire personal experience with their culture is less than three weeks), you don't get to call other people "aggressive"...

[ThudMaker]

And how have I deviated from my own argument? Steam rolled... please, I was faced with an extremely confrontational KK as is his style... everything is denied dismissed and disregarded... with easily disputable facts and arguments, that could lead to an extremely protracted discussion that is only feasible in a live chat environment where there aren't so many participants.

KK wasn't confrontational at all. He pointed out where you are incorrect. If you can't handle the heat, you should've stayed out of the discussion. There has been nothing insulting in this thread except your attitude toward Americans.

[King Kashue]

What is your problem?

 

 

Hawk doesn't have any problems...

 

 

It's everyone else on the forums who has problems...just ask him...

[hawkhuff]

Ok lets have a look at what I said: "If SUV's are so great, then why is Ford for example in such a crisis in comparison to Japanese and European companies and the $ so weak?"

 

 

Ford is losing money for a myriad of reasons. One big one is its cost for labor and the Japanese competition. One of Ford and Chevy's largest sellers are their SUV's.

[hawkhuff]

Hawk doesn't have any problems... It's everyone else on the forums who has problems...just ask him...

 

 

Stop. I'm now getting hot and sweaty because of your short answers. It's not like you, hunk. :poke:

[hawkhuff]

KK wasn't confrontational at all. He pointed out where you are incorrect. If you can't handle the heat, you should've stayed out of the discussion. There has been nothing insulting in this thread except your attitude toward Americans.

 

 

I don't think anyone can handle KK's heat. Especailly when he's comin' at ya from behind, which is most often the case.

[ThudMaker]

Ford is losing money for a myriad of reasons. One big one is its cost for labor and the Japanese competition. One of Ford and Chevy's largest sellers are their SUV's.

So you'll basically back me when I said mismanagement/poor decision making, too.

[REMUS]

Now that's a salient comment. You're right, Americans drive cars that are too inefficient, and that will change as soon as economic forces dictate (despite Remus's comments, the US economy is actually not in dire straights). Honestly, I would love for everyone to drive a more efficient car. However, I'm not willing to achieve that end by either higher taxes or more government restrictions. Neither are within the government's duties (obviously a matter in which the US and the Continent have differences of opinions). The future for the US is more efficient cars. Honestly, the future of the world is non combustion power, because climate change or not, air pollution is a very obvious issue (we need to stop burning stuff )

lol.

My main point was that American cars are un-efficient causing damage to the planet and it wasn't even me who raised them as a case an example... I think it was hawkwind! And then Thudmaker picked up on that small, topical point.

[King Kashue]

lol. My main point was that American cars are un-efficient causing damage to the planet and it wasn't even me who raised them as a case an example... I think it was hawkwind! And then Thudmaker picked up on that small, topical point.

 

 

And I explicitly wasn't responding to that point, but to your comments regarding public transportation.

 

That you kept wanting to read them in regard to you comments about inefficient SUVs doesn't change what they were explicitly about.

[ThudMaker]

 

I don't think anyone can handle KK's heat. Especailly when he's comin' at ya from behind, which is most often the case.

 

Meh. It's a rite of passage on HCBF to take it up the anal cavity from KK once. When he's got your number in a discussion there's no stopping him. I didn't even get to 1,000 posts before I slugged it out with him and lost. I'm still here standing.

[hawkhuff]

lol. My main point was that American cars are un-efficient causing damage to the planet and it wasn't even me who raised them as a case an example... I think it was hawkwind! And then Thudmaker picked up on that small, topical point.

Hey ignoRemus. I didn't say that.

And how come your avatar is an American Cowboy. You like hot sweaty secks with cowboys?

You should visit Texas. EVERYTHING is big there, if you get my drift.

[mike fitzwell]

I don't think anyone can handle KK's heat. Especailly when he's comin' at ya from behind, which is most often the case.

 

[ThudMaker]

lol. My main point was that American cars are un-efficient causing damage to the planet and it wasn't even me who raised them as a case an example... I think it was hawkwind! And then Thudmaker picked up on that small, topical point.

I addressed each of your points, not just that one. You curled up into the fetus position and cried that we were insulting and you weren't going to address anything. Would you like me to go back and find the posts?

[hawkhuff]

So you'll basically back me when I said mismanagement/poor decision making, too.

Absolutely.

I recall reading not too long ago that GM pays more for benefits every year than they do steel for the manufacture of their vehicles. They are the 2nd largest welfare system in the US.