USA and pollution

[ThudMaker]

Top gear recently did a study of the new Cadillac and Hummer SUV's, they weigh so much that even with their monstrous engines... they are useless off road. So please don't play that card, most SUV's are utterly useless off road because they are to long and heavy. . . . . . . If your government taxed you as much as us, then you would have a decent public transport system mate and you wouldn't have to pay for your hospital treatment.... If SUV's are so great, then why is Ford for example in such a crisis in comparison to Japanese and European companies and the $ so weak?

These arguments aren't even logical, nor did you address the points KK and I raised to you. Looking at a map of the US isn't the same as living here. You don't know jack about our country and how sparse the population is in certain areas. That we require SUV's and not vans to haul around our families is something you don't want to recognize. If our government taxed us as much as your government taxes you, we still wouldn't have a public transportation system for most of country. Your are completely ignorant of how widespread and scattered our population is. As for your comment about Ford's crisis your argument is complete bullshiite. Ford is in crisis due to poor management/bad decision making. Your point denies the link that lug posted which shows that the Toyota Sequoia, Toyota LandCruiser and Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander are all on the safe list. Toyota is selling SUV's here, too. If you're going to continue to show us Americans disrespect at least make points that are relevant. Oh, here's a little tidbit about the value of a dollar. A weak dollar makes our exports more attractive.

[hawkhuff]

Leave KK alone.

KK NEEDS an SUV to carry that huge head of his around.

[lug]

Yes, that was the incentive behind the development of the technology. FWIW, leaded gas is still sold in parts of Europe as well as some other parts of the world. But all of this was just an aside to my point that ranjaman was correct about market-specific car models.

 

 

A lot of the hoopla over leaded gas was misplaced. When they went back and tested the roadsides later they were shocked to find out lead levels were just as bad or worse. Turns out the real culprit for the high lead levels where wheel weights coming off tires and being run over and ground up. Lead gas is still bad, but it wasn't causing the most damage like they thought.

[Mudbass]

Yes, that was the incentive behind the development of the technology. FWIW, leaded gas is still sold in parts of Europe as well as some other parts of the world. But all of this was just an aside to my point that ranjaman was correct about market-specific car models.

 

 

I didn't say every car made meets USA emissions nor did I say that every country in the world has adopted every emissions requirement in use in the USA. I just said that many countries don't need to set their own emissions requirements into law because of USA requirements that are already in place. If Holland is using unleaded gas for example, then they're using technology set in motion by USA anti-smog regulations. I just get sick to death of the rest of the world looking down their long, oh so superior noses at the big bad polluting USA when every {censored}ing anti-emissions control device they have on their cars started right here. No other country in the world has done more to curb vehicle pollution than the USA and every country in the world who requires smog control is using US inspired techlology to cut pollution. Because of the demands put in place by the USA, car makers have engineered cars that produce 1/100 of the emissions at the tail pipe than cars on the road did 30 years ago. All countries benefit from these improvements not just the USA, but does the USA get any thanks, {censored} no. All we get is Europeans pointing at our SUVs and bitching like a bunch of old women. I'd like to remind them that America was founded and settled by people who don't like Europeans pointing fingers at them and bitching like old women and we still don't.

[ThudMaker]

I'd like to remind them that America was founded and settled by people who don't like Europeans pointing fingers at them and bitching like old women and we still don't.

I'll +1 this.

[REMUS]

Nope I didn't address any of your points because I don't want to, you aren't providing me with a decent argument... your are for the most part simply insulting me

 

So if you would like me to discuss points with you in a valid discussion, then i'll be only happy to bring you my perspective and the knowledge I have on the subject as long as the tone remains civil.

 

Fact is, you want to drive SUV's... you don't need to and the planet is paying the price.

[lug]

Get a mini bus then lol!

What do you think an SUV is?

[collinwho]

Top gear recently did a study of the new Cadillac and Hummer SUV's, they weigh so much that even with their monstrous engines... they are useless off road. So please don't play that card, most SUV's are utterly useless off road because they are to long and heavy.

 

 

Cadillac and Hummer SUV's are very unneccessary, but you aren't going to be able to imagine a tax that will stop people from driving them, because they are status symbols, not functional. You will rarely see anyone driving either in any rural areas.

 

I drive a 1994 Ford Explorer. The only message it sends is "This guy can't afford a car less than 13 years old". If I didn't have it, that would mean 3 cars instead of 1 to every band show. It can and has functioned perfectly well off road and in the snow. It has been effectively used to tow friends cars that have died on the side of the road, even.

 

I guess the point is, not every SUV/truck is a Hummer. Just because you don't have a need doesn't mean others don't.

[King Kashue]

 

Don't cop out. You said "But I feel you must know that it is wrong, or you wouldn't be so defensive

 

Your claim is "If someone gets defensive the criticism must be valid", if that's a truism, then it's true when applied to you as well...

 

It's not a valid argument, that's my point. Just because someone is defensive doesn't make the other person correct.

 

 

Yes, I have looked at a global map before.

 

So you've never lived here? Never ever visited? Then how do you know so much about American culture?

 

There is a big difference between having looked at a map and knowing how a society functions. If you weren't being so flippant about it, you'd likely recognize that.

 

ORLY!?

 

Evidently you're taking other people's comments seriously here...

 

But that must just be me being defensive because "ORLY" is such a salient criticism?

 

ORLY!? And how does this relate to SUV's being viable alternative, if you have to travel further it only makes it more imperative to drive an efficient car/truck/thing.

 

Not when gasoline is actually affordable.

 

And more significantly, I'm talking about the centrality of cars, not SUVs. You've made two statements, one about cars/public transport in general, and one about SUVs in specific.

 

Don't conflate my responses. I'm talking about cars/public transport.

 

As for SUVs, they're are currently treated as station wagons used to be. They're family transportation for multiple children.

 

Honestly, I don't like Soccer Moms driving SUVs and I make fun of SUVs that can't go off road (I regularly go off road with my Jeep).

 

So there isn't a developed air/train network in the US, for long distance travel?

 

Trains? No. Because no one is going to run a train to a town of 10,000 people.

 

As for planes, no one is going to fly 100 miles, and there aren't airports in towns of 10,000 people (the airport is several hours drive).

 

Once again, this is why I asked whether you had ever lived (or even visted) here. This question reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of the US.

 

So everyone has to drive SUV's

 

I'm addressing the car/public transport argument, not the SUV argument.

 

And actually, SUVs and Trucks actually serve a working purpose in Rural areas (particularly pickup trucks).

 

Ahhhhh right, so we still use all the roman infastructure. We haven't built any new roads to accommodate arctic lorries and the like, even smaller delivery vans or medium sized SUV's such as Range/Land Rovers...

 

Ahhh, every road is the M25, right?

 

You know what I mean, stop being purposefully obtuse and actually address the point.

 

The roads in London aren't anywhere near adequate to handle the traffic there, and anyone who has sat for hours going 5 miles knows it. There are roads in dozens of cities that cars can't even fit down passing each other. The city center of just about any town in the UK (Barring that monstrosity M-K), is congested and windy.

 

So why are you arguing with me? You have a problem, getting aggrieved with me for pointing it out isn't going to sort it out or help the situation.

 

Because you're making suggestions that aren't feasible, that's why. "Everyone use public transport" won't work, and if you had any understanding of the US, you'd know that.

 

It's as useless a suggestion as telling someone complaining about housing costs in London to "Save money and just build a new house". It's not an option.

 

The areas that can support public transportation have it. However most of the country is dotted by towns of a few thousand people separated by hours of driving.

 

Yeah i've got a 6 horsepower cart as my daily ride, pimped out with 60" woodies, shod with stainless steel.

 

Another smartass remark instead of addressing the point.

 

Are you wondering why some people aren't taking your comments seriously? If not, you should be.

 

Top gear recently did a study of the new Cadillac and Hummer SUV's, they weigh so much that even with their monstrous engines... they are useless off road. So please don't play that card, most SUV's are utterly useless off road because they are to long and heavy.

 

Where did I play the "off road" card?...Oh, that's right, I didn't...Adequate strawman though.

 

Not your comment was in the slightest bit topical, but as I mentioned above, I mock SUVs that can't off road.

 

If your government taxed you as much as us, then you would have a decent public transport system mate and you wouldn't have to pay for your hospital treatment....

 

Do you really think you don't pay for your hospital treatment? What do you think taxes are?!? Nothing is free.

 

And taxes have nothing to do with a lack of public transport. As I said, in the areas that can support it, it's there and heavily used. But for most areas, it wouldn't be in any way feasible. Seriously, if you so demonstrably don't know about a society, how can you feel so confident in criticizing it?

 

As for the NHS, I've had it...I'll take my paid health insurance any day of the week and twice on Saturdays (indeed, if the NHS is so great, how come everyone I knew who could afford private care used it?)

 

If SUV's are so great, then why is Ford for example in such a crisis in comparison to Japanese and European companies and the $ so weak?

 

Ford sucks.

 

Though you're right, the entire US economy is based on SUV sales. In fact, every international currency broker has based the dollar's value on the sales of the Ford Excursion...it's true, that is why the dollar is weak, you've nailed it exactly...

 

As was mentioned in the other thread on the subject, anyone who thinks that "weak dollar" is the same as "weak economy" needs to take a basic course in Macro economics.

[REMUS]

I'll +1 this.

If you knew anything then, you would know that America was founded by Europeans and stolen off the native Indians, most of you are descended from Europeans.

[ThudMaker]

Nope I didn't address any of your points because I don't want to, you aren't providing me with a decent argument... your are for the most part simply insulting me So if you would like me to discuss points with you in a valid discussion, then i'll be only happy to bring you my perspective and the knowledge I have on the subject as long as the tone remains civil. Fact is, you want to drive SUV's... you don't need to and the planet is paying the price.

Insulting you? Tone remain civil? You need to reread your posts. Do you consider telling us that we need to be like you and that our government needs to tax us like yours so we get health care like yours anything short of arrogant. We don't want your friggin' healthcare. Ours is superior.

 

Again address the facts. And get off your high horse that we're insulting you.

[lug]

I guess the point is, not every SUV/truck is a Hummer. Just because you don't have a need doesn't mean others don't.

Ever wonder why they never have a bad thing to say about vans that are just as heavy and get just as bad gas mileage as the big SUV's and the fact that there are probably 100 of them for every HUMMER?
Evil rich people don't drive vans.

[hawkhuff]

Don't cop out. ......... course in Macro economics.

KK also needs the SUV for those huge wind bags he drags around and imposes on everyone. Whew.

[Mudbass]

If you knew anything then, you would know that America was founded by Europeans and stolen off the native Indians, most of you are descended from Europeans.

Oh Jesus, here we go again.

[collinwho]

KK also needs the SUV for those huge wind bags he drags around and imposes on everyone. Whew.

What is your problem?

[ThudMaker]

If you knew anything then, you would know that America was founded by Europeans and stolen off the native Indians, most of you are descended from Europeans.

America was founded by Europeans who wanted to get away from Europe.Your lack of knowledge of western civilization history is showing.

[King Kashue]

Nope I didn't address any of your points because I don't want to, you aren't providing me with a decent argument... your are for the most part simply insulting me

Please quote every place where Thud or I have made a personal insult...

So if you would like me to discuss points with you in a valid discussion, then i'll be only happy to bring you my perspective and the knowledge I have on the subject as long as the tone remains civil.

Is that what all of your dismissive comments and sarcasm are? That's a civil tone...

[hawkhuff]

If you knew anything then, you would know that America was founded by Europeans and stolen off the native Indians, most of you are descended from Europeans.

 

 

Man, thank you.

 

I know now I am not the only racist here today. Whew!

[REMUS]

And KK it seems you are addressing a different topic... I was talking about the future implications of American car culture on the environment and how sustainable it is, you seem to have deviated to the present social, economic, demographic and ecological issues encompassing transportation in the US.

You also seem to address topics that branch from my response that suit you and avoid the question or point I raised.

There simply isn't any point in continuing this, because it is quickly becoming a personal matter with several people becoming disgruntled.

I have visited the US once, for a period of 20 days including travel time.

[King Kashue]

KK also needs the SUV for those huge wind bags he drags around and imposes on everyone. Whew.

Hawk man, you post so much about me...

You should just come out and admit you want to have some hot sweaty man love...I'd totally be down with that (unless you're a fatty, I'm not a chubby chaser)...

[ranjaman]

*snip*

 

 

The issue isn't how much americans drive, but which cars they drive.

There seems to be a difference in mentality between the US and Europe, between "driving the biggest car you can afford" and "deciding what you need in a car and choosing the most economical", between "car companies sueing the state over emission laws" and "car manufacturers setting voluntary emission standards".

 

I can see how driving a big truck could be fun, but I just can't justify buying one if I can also haul my gear around in a small van at half the mpg.

[King Kashue]

And KK it seems you are addressing a different topic... I was talking about the future implications of American car culture on the environment and how sustainable it is, you seem to have deviated to the present social, economic, demographic and ecological issues encompassing transportation in the US.

So, you were addressing automobiles and I "went off topic" by discussing transportation issues?

You also seem to address topics that branch from my response that suit you and avoid the question or point I raised.

Considering you kept construing my comments as being about SUVs when they were explicitly about cars/public transportation, this is an unusual complaint.

You're putting forth the idea of public transportation as an alternative to cars. Multiple people are trying to explain why that's not feasible, but you refuse to acknowledge or address any of those reasons.

There simply isn't any point in continuing this, because it is quickly becoming a personal matter with several people becoming disgruntled.

Well, I'm sure it's not because of the "civil tone" of your posts...oh, wait

I have visited the US once, for a period of 20 days including travel time.

And where did you visit?

[ThudMaker]

And KK it seems you are addressing a different topic... I was talking about the future implications of American car culture on the environment and how sustainable it is, you seem to have deviated to the present social, economic, demographic and ecological issues encompassing transportation in the US. You also seem to address topics that branch from my response that suit you and avoid the question or point I raised. There simply isn't any point in continuing this, because it is quickly becoming a personal matter with several people becoming disgruntled. I have visited the US once, for a period of 20 days including travel time.

So IOW it's OK for you to deviate, but others can't? Is that right? You got steamrolled with your comment about Ford's SUVs. I backed it up with facts that Toyota and Honda are selling plenty nof SUV's in the states. Everyone here, including King Kashue, are addressing your points. Quit making excuses.

[hawkhuff]

LMAO.

Only if I can bitch slap you whilst I do the mad hot pumping.

And, no I don't want to talk afterwards. OK?

OK?

[REMUS]

America was founded by Europeans who wanted to get away from Europe.Your lack of knowledge of western civilization history is showing.

Ok i'll bite.

Yeah that makes sense...

I err.. umm... ok, hmm... so...

It wasn't founded by Europeans, it was founded by Europeans who aren't Europeans because they don't like Europeans!!



God, I now know i'm a complete idiot and my statement is completely wrong!