USA and pollution

[King Kashue]

 

Yeah but you are what remains of the British, Swedish, Irish and Germans that kicked British controlling force out. You are still descendants of men that pwned the Indians, as much as we are.

 

 

I'm a descendant of both Europeans and AmerIndians...

 

And my European ancestors came to America in the late 1800s and early 1900s, none of them were involved in the "taming of the West".

[King Kashue]

 

Actually we took most of it without the Euros help. We'd kicked the Brits arses off our continent in 2 wars and then went west.

 

 

We didn't win the war of 1812...it kills me when people say we did.

 

We lost the war of 1812 and Britain let us off with a draw with the Treaty of Ghent because they were more concerned with Napoleon. In fact, we lost to their second line troops, since their first line troops were on the Continent fighting the French.

[Craig Vecchione]

And that's another thing that frosts my ass. Europeans are always accusing we Americans of stealing the land from the Indians. Every damned time they start to lose an argument they bring it up. So think about it, exactly who stole what from whom here? It was the Brits and the Sweeds and the Irish and the Germans and the Spanish...in short, it was they, the Europeans who stole the land from the Indains and they go pointing their finger at us and calling us a bunch of evil bastards.

 

Yeah, the US was settled by Europeans, but Americans slaughtered the Native Americans.....

[ranjaman]

From diesel to carbon emissions...........to pwning indians

 

*waits for the inevitable hitler reference*

[ThudMaker]

We didn't win the war of 1812...it kills me when people say we did. We lost the war of 1812 and Britain let us off with a draw with the Treaty of Ghent because they were more concerned with Napoleon. In fact, we lost to their second line troops, since their first line troops were on the Continent fighting the French.

You forgot to mention that thanks to the French, we got Cornwallis in round one, too. Yeah, I know. It just sounds better when we have a smug Euro telling us about America that we kicked them out stone cold, twice.

[REMUS]

You forgot to mention that thanks to the French, we got Cornwallis in round one, too. Yeah, I know. It just sounds better when we have a smug Euro telling us about America that we kicked them out stone cold, twice.

 

When your actually wrong?

 

People like you actually make others dumber...

[Mudbass]

 

Actually we took most of it without the Euros help. We'd kicked the Brits arses off our continent in 2 wars and then went west.

 

 

You mean there was peace and happiness in the valley for over 200 years. Then BAM, the {censored} hit the fan with the indians on July 5th, 1776. That what you're saying?

 

Man, I musta gone to all the wrong history classes.

[REMUS]

You need to get off the Indians and pwning crap. And since you weren't over here, you didn't pwn anything.

 

You are dealing with someone who makes statements like that, who is desperately nay frantically searching wikipedia right now to come up with a retort to your post no doubt

[King Kashue]

Solar arrays will cover a similar portion of ground as the equivalent wind alternative.

 

Except you can make a roof out of solar panels, you can't put a 30' blade wind turbine on a house.

 

You can pave a motorway with solar panels, you think M25 traffic is bad, put a windfarm in the middle of the road

 

Presently wind is the most developed green method that yields usable results, but imo I think cold fusion is the future. I watched a small study on Discovery and I always thought it wasn't even possible. But they actually stated that a power station could be built within 50 years, could be unfounded crapola however...

 

There is no scientific evidence of cold fusion. It doesn't exist.

 

Fusion requires massive amounts of heat. What is possible in the future (and is becoming more likely every day) is that we will be able to construct the means to control and maintain a fusion reaction.

 

I agree that if solar power could be refined/sustainable for all year usage, then it is the better option.

 

Already is year round capable...just not in foggy london town (or the Pacific Northwest, or Detroit, etc).

 

At the end of August, I spent a week driving across this great nation, and spent several days driving through the desert in Utah and California. There are hundreds of thousands of miles of roads in the middle of the desert, and they get almost 300 days of sunshine per year. Repave all of them, and it would provide electricity for the entire US. The only cost would be the cost of "shipping" it...

[REMUS]

I seem to remember that they had numerous problems with test beds in desert conditions generating enough usable power per panel, having reliability issues due in part to the heat, and also erosion by the sand, but that was at least 3 years ago so maybe engineers have developed ways to consolidate and solve these issues.

 

I'll try and find evidence of my previous fusion claim, the source is a new series on discovery dedicated to solutions to problems we have already identified, which will be occurring in the near future.

[ThudMaker]

You mean there was peace and happiness in the valley for over 200 years. Then BAM, the {censored} hit the fan with the indians on July 5th, 1776. That what you're saying? Man, I musta gone to all the wrong history classes.

So what you're saying is that we were driving them out west of the Mississppi pre 1776? The trail of tears occurred before 1776? 13 colonies do not make the vast majority of this continent. The greatest number of Indian territory was obviously taken post-independence.

[lug]

Wind farms only work well from a financial investment perspective where the wind blows on average 14 mph and above. It's nowhere near that in the middle portions of the US.

 

 

Sadly true. After much investigation I have found that I can get back my initial costs on the most efficient windmill I could find......in 26 years. My6 area averages 10 to 11 MPH winds. 14 MPH winds would pay off initial investment well under 10 years. At 26 years, I quickly decided...no way.

[misterhinkydink]

I love my focus, and would so replace it with a diesel one if it were available. Prolly the wagon version.

 

No more Focus wagons for us with either powerplant.

[lug]

I seem to remember that they had numerous problems with test beds in desert conditions generating enough usable power per panel, having reliability issues due in part to the heat, and also erosion by the sand, but that was at least 3 years ago so maybe engineers have developed ways to consolidate and solve these issues. I'll try and find evidence of my previous fusion claim, the source is a new series on discovery dedicated to solutions to problems we have already identified, which will be occurring in the near future.

 

 

I think The Discovery Channel had a special on a new Fusion reactor (in France, maybe?) but it wasn't Cold Fusion, it was Real Fusion.

[misterhinkydink]

Yeah but you are what remains of the British, Swedish, Irish and Germans that kicked British controlling force out. You are still descendants of men that pwned the Indians, as much as we are.

 

I'm descended from Normans and you know what they did to your country.

[ThudMaker]

When your actually wrong? People like you actually make others dumber...

Um. I was pointing out that I purposely took liberties with our history in that post.

[lug]

Let's just all agree that the Europeans kilt the Indians and the Americans gave them fancy casinos, m'kay?

[REMUS]

I think The Discovery Channel had a special on a new Fusion reactor (in France, maybe?) but it wasn't Cold Fusion, it was Real Fusion.

 

Your more than likely to be correct on that point!

[hawkhuff]

 

Noisy and hugely detrimental (i.e., fatal) to avian life forms, also, it requires a huge amount of land, and thus interferes with natural habitats for countless animals. It does plenty of environmental damage...just because it's localized doesn't mean it's not an issue. Solar is what the future is going to be. They already make solar panels durable enough to be used as building roofs and as pavement for streets. It's just a matter of the technology advancing enough that large-scale implementation is viable (the efficiency of the process is increasing at a significant rate, so that a solar panel put in today will be 1/10 as efficient as one built ten years from now, and large scale implementation would be a cost night mare in terms of replacement)...

 

 

The big downside to solar and wind is they are regional and they are not 100% in terms of availability. For example solar is not a good means of power generation in the Great Lakes states but wind is but only for a limited time. New York State has, on average, 88% of the year it is cloudy. For wind it is much better; there are a few days during the summer where there is no wind at all off the lakes. During these times one must rely on the power grid because neither method has any means of energy storage.

 

The efficiency of the solar cell, from my readings, have not increased in efficiency to a great extent from the 70's but there is activity in that area. They are now excellent for small devices like watches, clocks, phones and radios but they are not yet efficient for meeting the higher demands of a home on a continuing basis.

 

Both are still cost prohibitive for the working man but they are getting better.

[hawkhuff]

 

I'm a descendant of both Europeans and AmerIndians... And my European ancestors came to America in the late 1800s and early 1900s, none of them were involved in the "taming of the West".

 

 

You must be one conflicted boy, huh?

:poke:

[hawkhuff]

We didn't win the war of 1812...it kills me when people say we did. We lost the war of 1812 and Britain let us off with a draw with the Treaty of Ghent because they were more concerned with Napoleon. In fact, we lost to their second line troops, since their first line troops were on the Continent fighting the French.

 

Uh, isn't forfiture actually a win?

 

It's not our faults the dumb Brits chose to fight a war on multiple fronts.

[ThudMaker]

Uh, isn't forfiture actually a win? It's not our faults the dumb Brits chose to fight a war on multiple fronts.

I think that KK's point was that we fought second rate British troops to a draw. Had they not been so concerned with the French, the top British troops would have been here and turned us back into subjects of the crown.

[lug]

 

Yep. The more affordable they become, the more viable a solution they will be. I'd still like to see even more hydro-electric energy, as well as more homes being built into the earth, although I realize the latter is very dependent upon local terrain.

 

 

 

To get more hydro we need more reservoirs. To achieve this, we need to get more rain. To achieve this we need to warm the earth to get more evaporation from the oceans and get more free water form the glaciers. Once again the solution IS Global Warming. Thank you, thank you very much.

[hawkhuff]

Yep. The more affordable they become, the more viable a solution they will be. I'd still like to see even more hydro-electric energy, as well as more homes being built into the earth, although I realize the latter is very dependent upon local terrain. I think that KK's point was that we fought second rate British troops to a draw. Had they not been so concerned with the French, the top British troops would have been here and turned us back into subjects of the crown.

 

 

You'll never see anymore hydro plants in the US. There are too many enviro laws that make it cost discouraging if not impossible. I read a stat that 45% of all the waterways are damned for hydro power and there won't be anymore.

 

In Niagara Falls there is a big hydro plant. About five years ago they wanted to expand the plant by adding two additional turbines. The power authority announced they will in court for another 15 years (law suits) and they still may not get the OK to expand. It's too bad, it would be a good way to go but instead right down the river they built a huge coal burning plant.

[ThudMaker]

To get more hydro we need more reservoirs. To achieve this, we need to get more rain. To achieve this we need to warm the earth to get more evaporation from the oceans and get more free water form the glaciers. Once again the solution IS Global Warming. Thank you, thank you very much.

So you just need to drive your monster SUV more and I'll continue to drive the wheels off my V-8 F-150. We should be all set. Hurray for climate change. Running the world out of oil has its benefits.