OT: Looks like McCain's cleaning up

[ThudMaker]

But if you kick all the illegal immigrants out then who will staff the thousands of Italian restaurant kitchens? Who?! WHO?!?!

All the legal residents and college students that staff the ones in my city right now.

[isaac42]

It's Republican reverse psychology in my opinion. Since a real conservative doesn't have a chance this year McCain can give it a go with conservatives "hating" him....wink wink

 

 

No real conservative has had a chance in quite a while.

[lug]

I'm not worried about Hillarycare. It's not going to pass.

I don't see how it will not pass. Dem congress is almost guaranteed and the ability to cancel Bush's tax cuts to fund Hational Health care is a double win in their book. Check this from the DNC's webpage:

http://www.democrats.org/a/national/affordable_health_care/

It doesn't actually say Fed controlled but it's on the top of the agenda.

[rpsands]

I never could understand people who 'hate' a candidate for some reason. McCain 's amnesty bill was not a "give everyone citizenship bill." It was "get the people already living here to come forward and get a legal work visa, pay social security tax, and stop sending all their money in dufflebags to Mexico."

 

The immigration problem is not going to be solved by secure borders or mass deportation alone - and believe me I am for both of those things, in general (deportation less so, but to a great extent we are too lenient). It's going to be solved by reforming immigration (ever tried to pass the citizenship test? I'd expect at best 8 out of 10 Americans could), and bringing migrant workers under US law.

 

Do you think immigrants would be TAKIN OUR JERBS if people had to pay them the minimum wage and pay social security tax for them? Not nearly to the extent that they are now, in any case.

 

Immigration is such a complicated issue, and to be honest I am not fully educated on it, but I sincerely doubt most of the people who "hate" McCain for "flipflopping" on immigration have any idea what the hell is going on, or what the real impact is.

 

Nothing is as simple as people make it out to be.

 

Here's another example:

McCain was against some Bush tax cuts. Why? Because Bush spends like a {censored}ing drunken sailor. It's irresponsible to cut taxes and then increase spending.

 

Yet he gets a wrap among conservatives saying "McCain opposes tax cuts!" Or whatever. It's just a bunch of jargon and bullcrap.

 

Example 2:

McCain says we should stay in Iraq for a hundred years.

 

Yeah, well, we're still in Japan and South Korea and half of Europe. Seems like they're doing OK.

 

Context, people. context.

 

If Romney can flip-flop on abortion, pass mitthillarycare in his state, kill the state economy and raise taxes, why can't McCain change his stance on immigration to enforcement-first, which his constituents seem to want?

[lug]

I never could understand people who 'hate' a candidate for some reason. McCain 's amnesty bill was not a "give everyone citizenship bill." It was "get the people already living here to come forward and get a legal work visa, pay social security tax, and stop sending all their money in dufflebags to Mexico." The immigration problem is not going to be solved by secure borders or mass deportation alone - and believe me I am for both of those things, in general (deportation less so, but to a great extent we are too lenient). It's going to be solved by reforming immigration (ever tried to pass the citizenship test? I'd expect at best 8 out of 10 Americans could), and bringing migrant workers under US law. Do you think immigrants would be TAKIN OUR JERBS if people had to pay them the minimum wage and pay social security tax for them? Not nearly to the extent that they are now, in any case. Immigration is such a complicated issue, and to be honest I am not fully educated on it, but I sincerely doubt most of the people who "hate" McCain for "flipflopping" on immigration have any idea what the hell is going on, or what the real impact is. Nothing is as simple as people make it out to be. Here's another example: McCain was against some Bush tax cuts. Why? Because Bush spends like a {censored}ing drunken sailor. It's irresponsible to cut taxes and then increase spending. Yet he gets a wrap among conservatives saying "McCain opposes tax cuts!" Or whatever. It's just a bunch of jargon and bullcrap. Example 2: McCain says we should stay in Iraq for a hundred years. Yeah, well, we're still in Japan and South Korea and half of Europe. Seems like they're doing OK. Context, people. context. If Romney can flip-flop on abortion, pass mitthillarycare in his state, kill the state economy and raise taxes, why can't McCain change his stance on immigration to enforcement-first, which his constituents seem to want?

 

 

One thing I like about McCain is that he doesn't vote party line as often as everybody else. Ron Paul might be the only guy that can beat him on this. Obama and Clinton both vote about 97% along party lines, McCain is about 87% and Ron Paul is about 78%

[ThudMaker]

I never could understand people who 'hate' a candidate for some reason. McCain 's amnesty bill was not a "give everyone citizenship bill." It was "get the people already living here to come forward and get a legal work visa, pay social security tax, and stop sending all their money in dufflebags to Mexico." The immigration problem is not going to be solved by secure borders or mass deportation alone - and believe me I am for both of those things, in general (deportation less so, but to a great extent we are too lenient). It's going to be solved by reforming immigration (ever tried to pass the citizenship test? I'd expect at best 8 out of 10 Americans could), and bringing migrant workers under US law. Do you think immigrants would be TAKIN OUR JERBS if people had to pay them the minimum wage and pay social security tax for them? Not nearly to the extent that they are now, in any case. Immigration is such a complicated issue, and to be honest I am not fully educated on it, but I sincerely doubt most of the people who "hate" McCain for "flipflopping" on immigration have any idea what the hell is going on, or what the real impact is. Nothing is as simple as people make it out to be. Here's another example: McCain was against some Bush tax cuts. Why? Because Bush spends like a {censored}ing drunken sailor. It's irresponsible to cut taxes and then increase spending. Yet he gets a wrap among conservatives saying "McCain opposes tax cuts!" Or whatever. It's just a bunch of jargon and bullcrap. Example 2: McCain says we should stay in Iraq for a hundred years. Yeah, well, we're still in Japan and South Korea and half of Europe. Seems like they're doing OK. Context, people. context. If Romney can flip-flop on abortion, pass mitthillarycare in his state, kill the state economy and raise taxes, why can't McCain change his stance on immigration to enforcement-first, which his constituents seem to want?

If you would like to point the finger at me, you're more than welcome to. I assure you that I'm well versed in what it takes to immigrate here and what jobs illegals take. As for hating McCain, I couldn't stand him in 2000. 8 more years isn't going to change that. McCain's bill was in fact Amnesty. What don;t you understand about that? Suggesting that they be rewarded for coming here illegally and then gaining legal status in some fashion isn't amnesty is deceitful. Amnesty was already done and a complete failure. Context, bub. Context. I do "know what the hell is going on."

[lug]

If you would like to point the finger at me, you're more than welcome to. I assure you that I'm well versed in what it takes to immigrate here and what jobs illegals take. As for hating McCain, I couldn't stand him in 2000. 8 more years isn't going to change that. McCain's bill was in fact Amnesty. What don;t you understand about that? Suggesting that they be rewarded for coming here illegally and then gaining legal status in some fashion isn't amnesty is deceitful. Amnesty was already done and a complete failure. Context, bub. Context. I do "know what the hell is going on."

 

****

That plan would allow illegal immigrants who entered the US before Jan. 7, 2004, and who have jobs, to work legally for an additional six years and eventually become citizens afterpaying fines and meeting certain citizenship requisites

****

source: http://usliberals.about.com/b/2006/04/04/mccain-kennedy-fair-immigration-plan-in-jeopardy.htm

 

That's not Amnesty. The penalties may not be severe enough in some poeple's opinion, but what has been proposed is not amnesty.

[JacieFB]

Latino-phobes? please.

I understand your frustration towards this statement. It's far too blanketing. But there is a point there. This is my own personal experience...every single conservative that I've talked to about this issue has really made me feel like they were "latino-phobes". Honestly, it felt exactly like socially-acceptable racism. Often the conversation quickly blew right past the fact that we were supposed to be talking about "illegals" or "undocumented workers". Those people were quickly lumped into a group of people that should be deported called "Mexicans".


One question I have about the Hillary Care...I'm gonna go research it, but perhaps some of you savy folks are up on it...Does it include said "undocumented workers"? A hard-core Republican friend of mine tried desperately to engage me into a political discussion the other day...mostly about putting down Hillary. He asked if I would be happy paying for insurance benes for millions of undocumented workers. Of course, I don't want to, but I don't feel like that's the whole story.


I hate political discussions, though. Truly. It's never really about trying to change someone's mind or really hear someone out. It's always about finding out if someone is "with you" and therefore smart, or "against you" and therefore one must make said person feel stupid for having such views. Not meaning to point fingers at Republicans, but as a life-long fence-sitter who is really frustrated with both parties, my Republican friends always seem to be the worst offenders. So, a lesson for you Repubs...be nice to independents and you may get their swing vote occasionally.

[ThudMaker]

**** That plan would allow illegal immigrants who entered the US before Jan. 7, 2004, and who have jobs, to work legally for an additional six years and eventually become citizens afterpaying fines and meeting certain citizenship requisites **** source: http://usliberals.about.com/b/2006/04/04/mccain-kennedy-fair-immigration-plan-in-jeopardy.htm That's not Amnesty. The penalties may not be severe enough in some poeple's opinion, but what has been proposed is not amnesty.

It's close enough to amnesty for a lot of us. How do you figure if our borders aren't secure and the folks got here illegally that the "before Jan. 7, 2004" deal is going to work out? The figures for McCain-Feingold were rosy, too. How's that bill helping the process? McCain made a bad situation worse. It's one thing to be a maverick. It's another thing to be a maverick and actually do something that works right.

[sm5719]

we need to continue the tradition people!





if we can get a obama vs. mccain matchup, i think things could actually get done. hopefully they'd be the right things.

[lug]

It's close enough to amnesty for a lot of us. How do you figure if our borders aren't secure and the folks got here illegally that the "before Jan. 7, 2004" deal is going to work out? The figures for McCain-Feingold were rosy, too. How's that bill helping the process? McCain made a bad situation worse. It's one thing to be a maverick. It's another thing to be a maverick and actually do something that works right.

But using "Amnesty" is entirely incorrect and misleading. I expect that kind of low ball, intentionally misleading, party-before-country, win-at-any-cost retoric from the Dems.





I'm just kidding.....kinda

[ThudMaker]

I understand your frustration towards this statement. It's far too blanketing.

Thanks for understanding. It's especially silly to consider me a "right-wing Latino-phobe" as wife and I are in the middle of adopting a non-US born Latino baby. Following the proper channels and government (x2) protocols is a bitch, but since I'm doing it, I expect the same courtesy from immigrants.

[lug]

Is that why a bunch of folks are jumping on the McCain bandwagon? Because he's "win at any cost" electable? I'd rather have the party that I've been affiliated with my entire voting life present someone who actually has the mental capacity to deal with the financial crisis that are beginning to present themselves. If McCain can't even financially grasp the future consequences of McCain-Feingold, why would I ever trust him with our economy, particularly in its current state? Thanks for understanding. It's especially silly to consider me a "right-wing Latino-phobe" as wife and I are in the middle of adopting a non-US born Latino baby. Following the proper channels and government (x2) protocols is a bitch, but since I'm doing it, I expect the same courtesy from immigrants.

 

 

McCain has commanded my respect since day one. I don't always agree with him polkitically but one only has to read his WIKI page to see what kind of guy he really is.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

It's close enough to amnesty for a lot of us. How do you figure if our borders aren't secure and the folks got here illegally that the "before Jan. 7, 2004" deal is going to work out?

 

 

Amnesty means you're forgiven, period. You can't be convicted, can't be deported. This bill is nothing like that. Borders aren't secure? So what? Every cop in every town knows where the illegals live and work. It's not difficult to arrest and deport an offender. But the point of the Bill is to make it more desirable to become a productive citizen and stay here than to continue playing cat-and-mouse at the border. We don't need to secure the border if fewer people are crossing illegally than legally.

[ThudMaker]

Amnesty means you're forgiven, period. You can't be convicted, can't be deported. This bill is nothing like that. Borders aren't secure? So what? Every cop in every town knows where the illegals live and work. It's not difficult to arrest and deport an offender. But the point of the Bill is to make it more desirable to become a productive citizen and stay here than to continue playing cat-and-mouse at the border. We don't need to secure the border if fewer people are crossing illegally than legally.

The bill says "before Jan. 7, 2004." How do they know of all the illegals that they were in this country before "Jan. 7, 2004?" And every cop knowing where the illegals are? That's quite a stretch. If they did, we would also know exactly where all the AQ cells are at in this country. It's amnesty in almost every sense. It continues to tell illegals to keep coming here illegally, because one way or another, the good US government will find a way to keep you here and get you legal status.

[JacieFB]

How do they know of all the illegals that they were in this country before "Jan. 7, 2004?"

NSA-created and Extraterrestrial Grey-maintained database.

[ThudMaker]

NSA-created and Extraterrestrial Grey-maintained database.

[JacieFB]

I heard a saying the other day...

In terms of the Presidential Candidates, Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line.

Fascinating that neither McCain nor Clinton really fit that bill.

[Jugghaid]

[rant]

A few points here:

1. If I really wanted a democrat in the White House, I'd be a Democrat. I shouldn't have one on the GOP ticket and getting the Republican Nomination.

2. McCain seems to me like he's losing his marbles. Going kooky. Every time I see him speak now, or in an interview, the first thing that comes to mind is Jack Nicholson as "The Joker". I think the guy is slowly going off his rocker.

3. Calling illegal aliens "Undocument Workers" is like calling a drug dealer an "Unlicensed Pharmacist". Ridiculous. Let's please refer to them as what they are. Illegal aliens. Criminals in this country illegally. Come here legally and we will welcome you with open arms. This country is BUILT on immigration. Hell my grandparents immigrated here at the turn of the last century. Unless you are a naitive american, your ancestors immigrated here as well. I don't know anyone who has a problem with LEGAL immigrants. I have a big problem with illegal ones.

None of these candidates except for Paul are worth walking 20 feet out of my way to piss in their mouths, IMO. While I don't agree with 100% of what he stands for, I do agree with about 80% of it. And i have the confidence he would actually DO WHAT HE SAYS unlike any of these other professional liars and thieves. He is the only one whose voting record actually backs up what he campaigns on. Problem is, he's not "presidential looking" enough. He's not a smooth polished speaker. He actually answers quetions honestly and doesn't sugar coat it for you. People in this country are so hung up on stupid {censored} like this.....look at the choices we have given ourselves for the highest office in this country. Is this really the best we can do?



We should all be very very ashamed. All this talk about "change" is nothing but that....talk. Every one of the front runners are nothing more than than the status quo incarnate. And any "change" they do actually make, or try to make, won't be for the better....mark my words.


[/rant]

[Kindness]

 

 

That is the system. If your expectations are for something else, you'll be disappointed every time.

[lug]

So you like him because he reminds you of President Bush... Gottcha!

[Jugghaid]

That is the system. If your expectations are for something else, you'll be disappointed every time.

 

 

And accepting that is what is wrong with this country. I refuse to lower my excpectations. If everyone else did the same and demanded better, we would get better. But we don't. And we simply accept it.

[Jugghaid]

So you like him because he reminds you of President Bush... Gottcha!

[JacieFB]

So you like him because he reminds you of President Bush... Gottcha!

Maybe Jugghaid, but not me. No way I'd let Ron Paul throw me a bachelor party.

[lug]

Maybe Jugghaid, but not me. No way I'd let Ron Paul throw me a bachelor party.

 

 

+1 That dude ain't got no coke and sure as hell don't know any hot dancers. Good call!