Members Jugghaid Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 And for the record, he doesn't remind me of Bush whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 I don't think immigration would be such a large problem if we had enforced the laws already in place, which largely hasn't happened. We have tons of sanctuary cities around the country (I live in one of them) where local law enforcement refuses to enforce federal immigration law. Saint Paul's douchebag mayor will not let police even look into citizenship/immigration status. The same goes for Minneapolis, and countless other cities. The idea that those who oppose the latest wave of immigration reform are racists/nativists/latinophobes/etc is hogwash. Most of us believe that if you want to come to the US, you need to do it the right way. We are a sovereign nation and it's not okay to willingly break our laws by coming into the country illegally. We get a million legal immigrants every year, and immigration continues to be important to the United States. Still, it needs to be legal immigration. Those who knowingly broke our laws to come here illegally don't deserve a side-door option. The idea that legalizing millions of 'undocumented workers' will be a boon to our economy is also false. The vast majority of those workers are low wage earners with limited (or no) job skills. Adding huge numbers of people at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder will have a devastating impact on our already-overburdened entitlement programs. Figures vary, but the heritage foundation reported that for every one dollar the average unskilled worker pays in taxes, he/she consumes four dollars of gov't services. Just last week I heard the same thing on the radio, but more extreme. The average person in the bottom 50% of income earners (which pay about 3% of the total taxes) get over eight dollars of gov't spending for ever dollar they pay in taxes. Simply put, legitimizing "undocumented workers" will add millions of more people who take more than they produce. We can't deport all illegals - it isn't feasible. We're not going to authorize some sort of witch hunt to root them out either. We just need to enforce our current immigration laws, end sanctuary cities and sanction those that refuse to enforce immigration law, heavily sanction businesses that knowingly hire illegals, and prevent social services and other taxpayer-funded programs from giving benefits to illegals. Ideally, our illegal problem will lessen by attrition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 McCain has commanded my respect since day one. I don't always agree with him polkitically but one only has to read his WIKI page to see what kind of guy he really is. I used to feel the same way. I lost my respect for him when he sucked up to Bush after what they did to him in the 2000 election. He lost any hope of redemption with me when he went to Bob Jones University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 I used to feel the same way. I lost my respect for him when he sucked up to Bush after what they did to him in the 2000 election. He lost any hope of redemption with me when he went to Bob Jones University.I should have after he sucked up to those Vietnam devils after the Vietnam war. What a wimp. He would make an awful divider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 He's not a smooth polished speaker. He actually answers quetions honestly and doesn't sugar coat it for you. He may answer questions honestly, but he doesn't answer the questions asked him. Why do you think he showed so poorly in the debates? He would be asked a question about Iraq and go off on a tangent talking about the Feds printing money and the Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 He may answer questions honestly, but he doesn't answer the questions asked him. Why do you think he showed so poorly in the debates? He would be asked a question about Iraq and go off on a tangent talking about the Feds printing money and the Constitution. got a copy of the Vid? I guarantee you one has a LOT to do with the other. How do you think we paid for the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 He may answer questions honestly, but he doesn't answer the questions asked him. Why do you think he showed so poorly in the debates? He would be asked a question about Iraq and go off on a tangent talking about the Feds printing money and the Constitution. Welcome to Presidential Debates 101. Happens all of the time and just about every candidate does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 got a copy of the Vid? I guarantee you one has a LOT to do with the other. How do you think we paid for the war?In a 2 minute answer for a debate, you can't get that complicated. He simply lacks any skill to communicate effectively. That happens to be an important trait of effective leaders. What do I need a copy of the vid for? It happened every single debate he was in. I would hope you watched the debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 In a 2 minute answer for a debate, you can't get that complicated. He simply lacks any skill to communicate effectively. That happens to be an important trait of effective leaders.But...but...he's Luke Skywalker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 Welcome to Presidential Debates 101. Happens all of the time and just about every candidate does it.Thanks for the info. I didn't know this. Ron Paul was absolutely pathetic in the debates. Huckster ran a close second although his issue was trying to be a soundbite a minute pal of everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 THANK YOU for saying what I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 And accepting that is what is wrong with this country. I refuse to lower my excpectations. If everyone else did the same and demanded better, we would get better. But we don't. And we simply accept it. AMEN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 And accepting that is what is wrong with this country. I refuse to lower my excpectations. If everyone else did the same and demanded better, we would get better. But we don't. And we simply accept it. Agreed. However, demanding more requires being educated and informed on the issues. This is a bass board, ostensibly where the participants are actually interested in bass, and the vast majority of the participants aren't educated and informed on many major topics related to bass, from music theory, to playing mechanics, to instrument mechanics, to amplification issues... There isn't enough intellectual curiosity in the world to push a demand for better candidates. It simply doesn't exist. However, if we prevented the common man from voting and only allowed those that are educated and informed and intellectually invested and driven to hold candidates accountable we could have candidates with real value. That's how it works in the private sector, it just isn't our system for governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thanks for the info. I didn't know this. Ron Paul was absolutely pathetic in the debates. Huckster ran a close second although his issue was trying to be a soundbite a minute pal of everyone. So you equate being a good public speaker and debater with the makings of a good president? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 However, if we prevented the common man from voting and only allowed those that are educated and informed and intellectually invested and driven to hold candidates accountable we could have candidates with real value. That's how it works in the private sector, it just isn't our system for governance.I'd like to get a vote for each acre owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'd like to get a vote for each acre owned.Bwahahahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 However, if we prevented the common man from voting and only allowed those that are educated and informed and intellectually invested and driven to hold candidates accountable we could have candidates with real value. Real value according to whom? People get it wrong on Wall Street all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 Real value according to whom? People get it wrong on Wall Street all of the time. According to Jugghaid's criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 So you equate being a good public speaker and debater with the makings of a good president? Being able to effectively communicate makes the job much, much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 There isn't enough intellectual curiosity in the world to push a demand for better candidates. It simply doesn't exist. I agree. This is the central problem. But then they wonder how they woke up in the morning with a rubber hanging out of their ass, figuratively speaking. Then they look for someone to blame. Fact is THEY are to blame for not having that intellectual curiousity. For not demanding accountability. For not demanding better. How bad does it have to get before the apathy fades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'd like to get a vote for each acre owned. +1 I get 4 votes and all them thar cityslickers in thar fancy highrises get doodly squat! YEEEEEEHAWWWWWW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 How bad does it have to get before the apathy fades? A LOT worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Being able to effectively communicate makes the job much, much easier. True. However, it is not the end all be all requirement. Hillary can communcate just fine, but I personally think she would be the worst thing that could happen to this country so far as a president goes. It's the message, not the man. It's what they will do, not what they will say and how smooth they are in saying it. I want substance, not snake oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 A LOT worse.Well, we're well on our way then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 A LOT worse. +1 I don't really see anything overall that's that bad except for in political debates about how bad things are in an effort to get elected or tarnish the other side. Our "bad" is pretty damm good if you look at it historically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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