Members burdizzos Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 The guitar player's amp {censored} the bed last week, mid gig of course. Fortunately, I have DIs to spare and I had already tied one in since he was having problems with his amp. This weekend we had two shows and the singer/guitarist finally came around to wearing his IEMs since the lack of amp forced his hand. After last night's show, he was forced to admit that it sounds way better and the band as a whole sounds better as a result of him being able to hear everything better. Hell, we even went so far as to say that the guitar sounds better through a DI. We are three drums and three cymbals away from a silent stage. The kick drum has already been replaced with a Roland KD-8, which results in a lot more versatility and a better all around kick sound since we don't have to worry about kick feedback. I really don't care about going to a silent stage as I am quite happy with how things currently sound. I think the best part about this setup is that if the bar owner wants the band quieter, it's just a single slider adjustment. There are those who will disagree all day saying that a setup like this lacks soul and without sound coming drirectly off stage, it just sounds like a jukebox and blah, blah, blah. Two nights of full dance floors and very happy bar owners only back up what I already knew. The only people who care are jackass musicians who are probably spending their Saturday nights talking {censored} about bands that actually gig on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted February 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2009 Sounds great. I like the kick drum solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 There are those who will disagree all day saying that a setup like this lacks soul and without sound coming drirectly off stage, it just sounds like a jukebox and blah, blah, blah. Two nights of full dance floors and very happy bar owners only back up what I already knew. The only people who care are jackass musicians who are probably spending their Saturday nights talking {censored} about bands that actually gig on a regular basis. I'm glad your set-up is working out well for you, but I think the above is a bit strong - as in, "He doth protest too much"... Now, for a dance band such as yours, I can see it working well - but for a straight up hard rock or metal gig, not so much, IMO - although to each their own, I say... As for the last sentence - I've averaged about 75 gigs per year for the last couple of years - how about you???:poke: - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members perrydabassman Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm glad your set-up is working out well for you, but I think the above is a bit strong - as in, "He doth protest too much"... Now, for a dance band such as yours, I can see it working well - but for a straight up hard rock or metal gig, not so much, IMO - although to each their own, I say... As for the last sentence - I've averaged about 75 gigs per year for the last couple of years - how about you???:poke: - georgestrings I agree with George, there is something about that feeling when your pants legs are flapping after hitting that low B at volume.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 A really talented band will sound good whether its amps or IEM's, period. The bands that don't know how to play appropriatly will certainly benefit from an IEM set up, but I've heard plenty of local bands using amps and a pa that sounded great. It ain't the IEM's, it's the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 I agree with George, there is something about that feeling when your pants legs are flapping after hitting that low B at volume.... Yeah, I really do like to feel the bass as well as hear it - but my main point was, that in the hard rock/metal club gigs I typically do, the people that are right up front want to see, hear, and feel the backline - and for that sort of gig, burdizzle's set-up doesn't cut it, in my experience... Again, to each their own, though - and I can certainly understand the advantages for his rig - especially for his kind of gig... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 A really talented band will sound good whether its amps or IEM's, period. The bands that don't know how to play appropriatly will certainly benefit from an IEM set up, but I've heard plenty of local bands using amps and a pa that sounded great. It ain't the IEM's, it's the players. Agreed... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 Meh, maybe it would work for a hard rock/metal act, maybe it wouldn't. It's impossible for me to know because every every heavy band that I have seen in a bar or club has always been too loud, poorly mixed, had just awful vocals or some mix of those three. Personally, I'd try to come up with a PA solution for mimicing the stage sound, like placing a few wedges across the front of the stage pointing out, rather than deal with a 125 dB stage which makes it nearly impossible to get a good monitor level so the vocalists can hear themselves. Then there's dealng with stage sound bleed through the vocal mics and allowing the guiy with the full stack to dictate FOH level just seems stupid. An IEM/DI setup is not a cure for poor musicianship or bad singing and a {censored}ty band will sound {censored}ty no matter what they do. However, for getting levels right, creating a good FOH mix and enabling the singers to hear themselves, there is nothing better for a typical working band. Our singer wasn't really into it at all until he was forced to play two gigs with IEMs, now he loves it. Personally, I'm thrilled that the competition in this area shows up to gigs with half stacks and low end PA systems that have even lower end monitor systems resulting in sweet feedback all night with their singers, who are probably good, sounding like {censored} because they can't hear anything but the guitars. It makes my life easier. I'm not putting anyone down for doing what works for them, but every time IEMs get brought up, the "real" rock 'n roll crowd usually has some {censored} to talk about the bands sounding fake or missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 Sounds great. I like the kick drum solution. Seriously, that was the best move yet. It's always difficult to get a good kick drum sound in bars, but not anymore. He keeps the kick front ring and head, with the band logo, propped up using the kick drum mic stand in front of the Roland unit. If someone is paying attention, they will probably notice that something is off, but no one ever pays attention to {censored} like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 22, 2009 Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 Personally, I'm thrilled that the competition in this area shows up to gigs with half stacks and low end PA systems that have even lower end monitor systems resulting in sweet feedback all night with their singers, who are probably good, sounding like {censored} because they can't hear anything but the guitars. It makes my life easier. I'm not putting anyone down for doing what works for them, but every time IEMs get brought up, the "real" rock 'n roll crowd usually has some {censored} to talk about the bands sounding fake or missing something. Having worked in a bar that had live entertainment every weekend, I can say that the bands who were able to control their volume got more and better paying gigs. There was a band that played our place once a month that had e-drums, IEM's, and a nice PA system, and even though I didn't care for their music selections for the most part, I always loved working while they played because I made fat ducats, and I could hear my customers. If they were too loud, I'd tell the singer and she would turn a single knob and the problem was solved, and they never, ever bitched about it. Another important benefit I saw with that band was that people who were there for happy hour usually stayed and watched them because it wasn't deafeningly loud. With the other bands, the happy hour crowd took off after the first song.C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2009 I guess I should have prefaced this by saying that I'm not in it for the art. I don't give a {censored} about being cool or rock 'n roll. I just want to play music, have fun, not go deaf and get paid. Many bands deliver an excellent sound by using a traditional setup with wedges. IEMs just make it easier. We typically check the crowd out and set the volume for the first set based on who is there. I don't want to drive out the dinner crowd that might stick around and buy $500 worth of booze if I can avoid it by dropping the FOH 6 dB. I prefer having the guy who pays me ask me to turn up than to turn down. I do everything the guy with the check book says with a smile. That's just smart business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I agree,to a point. I won't kiss anyones ass,including the boss if he is wrong. Our singer tried IEM this weekend. Friday night she was constantly messing with her ears,and the knob on the transmitter. Saturday night she began to get used to this set up,and relax. Said she had no problem hearing herself all night! I'm currently piecing together a P.A.,and when I get it together,Ill get the best bass sound I can FOH and probably need very little stage volume. From there I believe it will have a domino effect as the stage comes down,and FOH has more control over the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yeah, I really do like to feel the bass as well as hear it - but my main point was, that in the hard rock/metal club gigs I typically do, the people that are right up front want to see, hear, and feel the backline - and for that sort of gig, burdizzle's set-up doesn't cut it, in my experience... It's comments like this that make me wish you could come out to a gig and check it out. The rig we're running has enough power to blow people to the back wall, but walk two feet behind it and it's like you're in a whole different room. We actually run older hip-hop songs between sets and I'm fairly certain we could move the pool tables on the other side of the room if we tried! I'd love to run the system with a metal show, but I don't feel like dragging it all out for metal show pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bleepo Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Z-X, that's a Meyer sound setup isn't it? I'll never forget the mythbusters where Meyer goes for the brown note! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ToeJamFootball Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 If I was in a cover band that wasn't expected to rock out then I would use IEMs. But (for me anyway) I find that I can't get really into it unless I've got a loud rig, not over loud, but loud enough for the energy to translate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 There are a couple of places where we play that it is just easier to put the subs on stage, behind us. With 2000 watts pumping through a pair of Meyer subs, there's no backline in the bar scene that will compare to the energy felt there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 It's no secret that my band is on the IEM train. We've only had one gig with them (second is Saturday and we've been rehearsing with them religiously). The only real complaint that I've heard from anyone in the band is that he's concerned about what the FOH sounds like since what we hear through the IEM's (and as I reminded him through regular monitors) is different. We hire an engineer to run our FOH sound when we bring our PA. I trust his judgment more than most since he does audio engineering for a living...owns his own audio company and is an audio engineer for WGN Radio in Chicago. He says through the IEM setup that we've never sounded better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I have a wireless for the bass, so I can wander out into the house and check the FOH mix during the first couple of songs. Then pop in the earbuds and play the rest of the night without a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 It's comments like this that make me wish you could come out to a gig and check it out. The rig we're running has enough power to blow people to the back wall, but walk two feet behind it and it's like you're in a whole different room. We actually run older hip-hop songs between sets and I'm fairly certain we could move the pool tables on the other side of the room if we tried! I'd love to run the system with a metal show, but I don't feel like dragging it all out for metal show pay. I think you're missing the point I was trying to make - I have no doubt your PA rig will crank - as do the PAs I typically gig through - BUT, that's still not the same to the people who come to a club, to see a band perform hard rock or metal... I've already stated that dance music requirements are different, and that people who come out to dance probably don't care about the backline... Now, I'm seeing a slightly different slant on the same attitude Burdizzle was putting out - 1st, it was the "pro backline" crowd don't gig that much - now, it's "there's no money in that kind of music"... Now, I notice that I didn't get a response regarding an annual average of gigs - and let me tell you - I wouldn't be gigging as much as I do if it didn't pay... There are PLENTY of bands across the country that play stuff other than dance music that make good money... What I'm seeing here is that you guys are getting defensive because not everyone agrees that your set-up is as good as it gets... Personally, I don't care what you do - if it works for you, great - but I'm not going to just nod my head in agreement if I don't think it's so - and IMO, and IME - for hard rock/metal club gigs, your set-up isn't as effective as a standard backline and monitors... If you don't see it that way, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this... Anyways, I'm glad you're happy with your set-up, and I could see how that could work really well for you, given YOUR situation - best of luck to you guys... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 We're going to hit close to 100 gigs this year. I just joined this outfit a couple of months ago, so I don't know what their production was last year. I'm not being defensive because I think it is as good as it gets. I'm simply disagreeing with your point of view. You claim that it absolutely will not work for hard rock and metal shows. I could make it work and the overall mix would be better as a result. The bottom line is that in order for a band to be successful in using IEMs, everyone must be onboard with it. If you have one holdout who swears that it will never work, then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think the best part is the microphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Pfft, Geddy isn't hard rock or metal. He plays in a sissy dance band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted February 23, 2009 Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Pfft, Geddy isn't hard rock or metal. He plays in a sissy dance band. Obviously. I mean, look in the bottom right of that photo. Drink Holder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2009 Obviously. I mean, look in the bottom right of that photo. Drink Holder!!! Well, they are Canadian. {censored}ing rogue amateurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 23, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 23, 2009 The only real complaint that I've heard from anyone in the band is that he's concerned about what the FOH sounds like since what we hear through the IEM's ....... He says through the IEM setup that we've never sounded better.Isn't that what setting an H4 somewhere out front in the club and hitting the record button is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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