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Back to Back Ampless IEM Gigs


burdizzos

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The size of the venue being discussed, the available budget for the system, the primary reason the band is playing, the primary reason the people are in the venue. Lots more from there.

 

 

 

Bands can absolutely rock with an IEM set up, we can agree on that because of the Geddy example, which is the only reason I posted it. What you've listed are variables in making that happen but they do not make the analogy (not really even an analogy, but I digress) false.

 

The only point that might be valid is that people give Geddy Lee a pass because he's Geddy Lee. Could be, maybe not. Certainly doesn't effect the sound systems ability.

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An IEM setup is less than ideal for the band playing the third set on a night where 4 bands are playing (IE, most original acts around here). We don't get a soundcheck. We get 10 minutes to set up and do a quick line test and that is it.

 

Beyond that, even if we were to implement T-brooms approach (which I think is perfect for them), we would be making enemies out of the sound guys at the original venues who now have to replug everything when they could have just reused the same mic-ing scheme they were using for the last band. Which means we probably aren't going to be invited to play there anymore.

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Beyond that, even if we were to implement T-brooms approach (which I think is perfect for them), we would be making enemies out of the sound guys at the original venues who now have to replug everything when they could have just reused the same mic-ing scheme they were using for the last band. Which means we probably aren't going to be invited to play there anymore.

 

 

Same here. There are some totally different musical worlds and your stage setup and presentation has to match your reality.

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Bands can absolutely rock with an IEM set up, we can agree on that because of the Geddy example, which is the only reason I posted it. What you've listed are variables in making that happen but they do not make the analogy (not really even an analogy, but I digress) false.

The discussion isn't revolving around whether or not "bands can absolutely rock with an iem setup." The idea that "good music is good music" isn't what was being discussed. It makes the analogy false.

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If we're just talking about looks, then yeah, a metal band needs to have the Marshalls. I said I'm doing this for the money (and I am), but I'm a metal guy at heart, I've played in plenty of them, I'm playing in one right now on the side. And playing in it reminds me exactly why I hate playing in local metal bands sometimes, too -- people who never end up practicing because of one reason or another, so loud at rehearsals that you can't hear the snare drum unless it's mic'ed, players who constantly want to over-play each other. Anyway, that's beside the point.

 

Plenty of venues have heavier bands where the stage backline isn't doing {censored} up there. They've got the PA to make it sound good. If the people right up front are out of range of the focus of the PA, they've got center fills (or they should, {censored}ing NorVa).

 

I've been on both sides of the situation, too. I was in a band about eight years ago that opened for Cannibal Corpse. Stage volume was obscene. I've been in a band who opened for Ill Nino. Stage volume, surprisingly, was nonexistent -- floor monitors and backline were on the stage, but they weren't making any noise. The backline was mic'ed and one of the cabinets at minimum was turned on, but you couldn't hear it from the crowd. And they sounded heavier than {censored} through the PA.

 

Hell, in a metal band I played in even before those, I had a dummy 4x12 that I used as a road case for my real 4x12 on stage. I know looks play a part. And if the metal genre were to blow up around here and we could gig twice a week for the money we're making now, then sure, I'd have some dummy cabs up there. And maybe a second fake bass drum.

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We're going to hit close to 100 gigs this year. I just joined this outfit a couple of months ago, so I don't know what their production was last year.

 

 

I believe last year we clocked in at 117, but that's counting acoustic gigs, too. Full band gigs were right around 100.

 

You missed out on the fun of "hell week", too. Last March, we had gigs the 20th (Norfolk), 21st (Chesapeake), 22nd (Chesapeake), 23rd and 24th we were in Atlantic City, 25th (Suffolk), 26th (Smithfield), 27th (Chesapeake), 28th (Va Beach), 29th (Va Beach), off the 30th, and then the 31st (Chesapeake).

 

So much equipment being moved.

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The discussion isn't revolving around whether or not "bands can absolutely rock with an iem setup." The idea that "good music is good music" isn't what was being discussed. It makes the analogy false.



It's not an analogy at all. :facepalm: It's an example and it's completely applicable.

We were discussing "good sound is good sound", and all the variables you threw out there, are just that, variables. It doesn't make the example any less accurate because some of those variables are different than Burd's.

The whole notion of "hard rock acts couldn't get away with IEM's is laughable." Unless you're playing little tiny places where the back line provides most of the house sound, there's absolutely no validity to it whether you're Geddy Lee or a small timer.

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The notion in dispute was an ampless stage, not IEM's.

 

:rolleyes:

The dispute was over a IEM system alone could be used for a heavy rock band. The ampless stage is only one aspect.

 

The notion that a hard rock band couldn't get by with IEM and no amps on stage is laughable.

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It's not an analogy at all.
:facepalm:
It's an example and it's completely applicable.


We were discussing "good sound is good sound", and all the variables you threw out there, are just that, variables. It doesn't make the example any less accurate because some of those variables are different than Burd's.


The whole notion of "hard rock acts couldn't get away with IEM's is laughable." Unless you're playing little tiny places where the back line provides most of the house sound, there's absolutely no validity to it whether you're Geddy Lee or a small timer.




There's alot more validity to it than comparing Geddy at a Rush concert to a typical hard rock/metal club gig - I'm just sayin'...



- georgestrings

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Some people do hear with their eyes, and so they'd think something was funky, but that's where dummy cabinets come in.

 

We had someone come up to us on a break Saturday night and tell us how cool it was that we were using computer parts in the music. Our singer uses a laptop with lyrics on it sitting on the floor next to his pedalboard in case someone requests a song we don't fully know, or he just forgets. We showed him it was just for lyrics, wasn't hooked up to the PA, etc. His response was basically "mmm-hmm, don't worry, I won't tell, your secret's safe with me." He insisted he could hear the sequenced parts coming from that laptop!

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:rolleyes:
The dispute was over a IEM system alone could be used for a heavy rock band. The ampless stage is only one aspect.


The notion that a hard rock band couldn't get by with IEM and no amps on stage is laughable.




Have you ever actually played any decent sized clubs with a sucessful hard rock or metal band??? Because if you haven't, then you're probably just guessing...



- georgestrings

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Since Geddy has been brought up, I have to say that the last two times I've seen Rush, incredible shows BTW, the sound was horrible. :( The bass was complete mud and impossible to distinguish. There is a very valid point that IEM ampless rigs do not make a band better, the band (and sound crew) must make themselves better and that can be done with whatever type of pa/monitor gear you choose. Again, I've heard a few local bands with really good sound that weren't using IEM's, and I've heard the top end professional shows that sound horrible and great. It's NOT the monitors, it's not the amps, it's how knowledgably and appropriately they're used for the type of club/bar/venue. Period. Those of you with great success with IEM's are doing it right. The bands I go to see do it right without IEM's. No one is right, wrong, or any better than the others if their shows are managed correctly soundwise.

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Hey, you're the one comparing a Rush concert to a club gig, not me... If you have done it, have you fallen on your head since then???




- georgestrings



You're a funny guy George. You aren't worth me trying to "qualify" myself to talk about sound, but funny. :thu:

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:rolleyes:
The dispute was over a IEM system alone could be used for a heavy rock band. The ampless stage is only one aspect.


The notion that a hard rock band couldn't get by with IEM and no amps on stage is laughable.

I take it since there are no good political threads going haywire around here, you just need to be argumentative even when your argument has been proven invalid. Whatever.:rolleyes:

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you just need to be argumentative even when your argument has been proven invalid. Whatever.
:rolleyes:

 

No, I need to point out that someone is wrong when they are. :poke:

 

You've done nothing to support your claim that IEM's or an ampless stage won't work for hard rock.

 

You got one thing right: Whatever. :bor:

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No, I need to point out that someone is wrong when they are. :poke:


You've done nothing to support your claim that IEM's or an ampless stage won't work for hard rock.

I don't need to support the argument, as that wasn't the argument. The argument is whether or not Rush is representative of the typical hard rock bar band. What you couldn't refute, even though you can pat yourself on the back and think so. The customer who paid $75 to see Rush is a different customer than the one who paid $5 to get in to have some brews, listen to a hard rock cover band and chase some tail. Whatever. Nice personal attack on georgestrings without provocation, btw.

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