Members rhat Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Yea well I do both as well. I'm now fired from my last week at that open mic for "Spreading Propaganda" . Well I told some people about it, blogged about it and now people are up in arms, calling the management, Paper is going to write about it etc. I'm not spreading anything. It has taken on a life of it's own. Oh well. Man ,, so now everyplace that hires live entertainment in your area ,, knows you are the guy that whipped up the {censored} storm. For a 20 year pro,,, you didnt handle this deal very good. You are now radio active. Hopfully things will blow over. Somtimes its just best to not go political on things. good luck ,, i hope things blow over. Who knows you may get a bar to let you move your open mic to their place,,,, if you get that chance you better go in real humble and be kissin where the sun dont shine. If asked just say ,, yea this thing turned into a real mess ,, and I didnt wanna be in the middle of it...... good mojo to you .... rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doubleR Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Here you go: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/01/16/rock.star.gamers/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elbow Posted January 23, 2008 Members Share Posted January 23, 2008 Here you go: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/01/16/rock.star.gamers/index.html O M G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Janx Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 So I've been playing Rock Band (at home) for a bit. For $180 it's a nice way to pretend to be in a band. It's a great party game, better with friends than played by yourself. I actually think its better that GH, simply because GH is only guitar. I don't own a copy (use my friend's when he brings his rig over). If I want to pretend to be a rockstar by myself, I can just power up an amp... I don't think I'd enjoy watching people play in a bar. It might inspire some folks to get into real music. Obviously, if they're canceling real music events, it can also hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Here you go: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/01/16/rock.star.gamers/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b1ackie Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 pretend to be a rock star In our area, live bands are bringing HD screens and bouncing lyrics. You can 'pretend' to be a rock star by singing a song from the bands set list. This is a whole new slant and it's very popular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Maybe it's demographic, but in the PDX Metro Area, I get the impression that it's big. There's been more than one article in the papers about it, several bars/clubs have Guitar hero contests, hell, even the 30-40+ crowd at my last job still gather at a friends house almost every Friday and play it. I hear people talk about having Guitar Hero parties. One guy even set up his 60" plasma in his backyard, hooked up his 360 to a PA system, and had a BBQ and Guitar Hero party in his backyard. I think there's a mass appeal that's being overlooked or just plain ignored by musicians. How many times have you been at a bar/club just hanging with some friends with a few drinks and someone has played such and such song on the jukebox and you or someone else is like "{censored} yeah!" or "I love this song" and starts jamming with the song, either singing or playing air guitar. Every since I've been hanging with friends drinking and listening to music that kind of participation has NEVER gotten old. Guitar Hero just takes that to a different level and I don't see it getting old - they'll come out with different versions every now and then but the one thing that will keep the game thriving is that people love music and they can keep making more and songs available to play with the game just as there have been more and more songs available for Karaoke. As pathetic as it seems to me (and many others) people get a real sense of accomplishment out of playing and mastering songs on Guitar Hero. I think it's a stupid waste of time that could be better spent learning a real and rewarding skill but it's entertainment and in a way, entertainment is it's own reward. I don't see Guitar Hero as being just a fad. There's something of a "craze" about it and it's going to taper off at some point, but I will not be surprised 10 years from now if the game (and any copies/offshoots) are as popular as ever. Well if they start having this onstage in clubs, replacing real musicians then we have sunk to new lows, and we will reap what we sow. No one I know wants to see that..No one I associate with wants to see that replace a musician. I don't care about anyone else. My ignorance filter kicks in and doesn't allow me to see them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Man ,, so now everyplace that hires live entertainment in your area ,, knows you are the guy that whipped up the {censored} storm. For a 20 year pro,,, you didnt handle this deal very good. You are now radio active. Hopfully things will blow over. Somtimes its just best to not go political on things. good luck ,, i hope things blow over. Who knows you may get a bar to let you move your open mic to their place,,,, if you get that chance you better go in real humble and be kissin where the sun dont shine. If asked just say ,, yea this thing turned into a real mess ,, and I didnt wanna be in the middle of it...... good mojo to you .... rat When was the last time you gigged professionally on a regular basis? How long did you do it for? Are you a bandleader, gig-getter, soloist, fulltimer? Is this your livelihood or your business? I strongly doubt it...........I have plenty of gigs, always have and always will..........this place {censored}ing sucks and I don't need them.This latest episode is an affront against everything I stand for and needs to be called on....My friends who are the best musicians in town and they don't need to deal with this club either. You start acting like a sniveling desperate punk musician and you will be treated as such and paid as such...Everyone knows me, i'm well liked, one of the most respected musicians in the state and VERY VERY {censored}ing good at what I do....You have seen .00000001 of the dimensions here.....Point is, I have the balls to call bull{censored} on this deal and I can back it up, and still get gigs...I've been making a living playing music since I was a teenager and will continue to do so by being good, adapting to changing climates, and overcoming obstacles. This is a minor {censored}ing blip here buddy. The point of this post was to bring it to attention to other pros or former pros and to have an intelligent discourse on the ramifications of a changing entertainment climate....NOT TO {censored}ING INSULT ME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Well, I really thought that your protest wouldn't turn out good. Now you lost that last night and the club is going to get lots of free publicity for thier new Guitar Hero night. If business is bad now the club owner wil probably not blame Guitar Hero he will blame you and your protest.Max Sometimes you gotta take a stand....patrons that cared about the open mic were the ones who started the protest, calling the club etc...I took the blame because I wrote the blog about it....Sometimes you have to take a stand buddy, and i'm not one to ever be afraid to do it when that time comes. I bet I gig as much or more then anyone on these forums too...what does that say? I'm an idiot to stand up for my principals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members way2fat Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 ...........I have plenty of gigs, always have and always will..........this place {censored}ing sucks and I don't need them.This latest episode is an affront against everything I stand for and needs to be called on....My friends who are the best musicians in town and they don't need to deal with this club either....Everyone knows me, i'm well liked, one of the most respected musicians in the state and VERY VERY {censored}ing good at what I do.... I'm not a professional but I know several and you don't sound like any of them. You need to get over yourself, dude. You live in a state with the population of a medium sized city and you're getting all chesty about being, by your own admission, one of the best musicians in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 I'm not a professional but I know several and you don't sound like any of them. You need to get over yourself, dude. You live in a state with the population of a medium sized city and you're getting all chesty about being, by your own admission, one of the best musicians in the state. I'm from FL but I've lived and played all over the place. I choose to live up here because it's a nice quality of life. Now you're going to rip on me and my state buddy? You've probably never been here but I KNOW i've been to your state...and you can keep it...I don't really care what you think I sound like. I was merely responding to what I percieved as personal attacks by who would have guess it.....Drum Roll.....Wannabes....You didn't see me personally attacking anyone on here. You don't see Bluestrat doing it or Mr. Knobs or any of the pro's on here do you? Only the likes of you. :wave:That's What I think of you buddy so I guess we'll agree to mutual disdain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 When was the last time you gigged professionally on a regular basis? How long did you do it for? Are you a bandleader, gig-getter, soloist, fulltimer? Is this your livelihood or your business? I strongly doubt it........... Well its has been years,, and you did call me out on it. However i do have experience in what I did do for a living. I was a pilot. I ran flight schools, flew charter , worked corp, and even ran my own aviation business. we had the guy that worked out of the trunks of their car, we had guys that would undercut you, we had the people who would fly for free to get hours. We had them that would go to your boss and offer to your co pilots job for free... So i fully understand what its like when you feel like people are taking food out of your mouth. I did a stint when i was young were i did play in working bands. We were quite good, never played for free... and did slug it out in our local scene. I would not call us pro ,,, but our product was pretty well respected. 60 buck splits in 1970 wasnt bad for high school kids, especially when you had a 7 piece band with brass. Am I a pro musician .. Na ,, just a guy who enjoys music and have continued to enjoy and play it for my own enjoyment since i was a kid. One thing i have learned over the years is ,,, you never do yourself any good getting involved in the politics of ,,,so and so, is taking money out of my pocket that I rightfully diserve because i am a pro ,,, and they are not. We called those guys {censored}birds in aviation. The {censored}birds always complained about everything.... the rest of us just flew the planes for as much money as we could get..tried to work our way up,,,got hired , got fired,. and never worried about the other guys. You had to stay above the frey to really live up to the level of a pro pilot. I looked at it this way ,, if a {censored}bird cold get into my paycheck or under my skin ,, maybe i wasnt the pro i thought i was. You have yourself in the middle of a deal where the media kinda is viewing you as the ring leader, even if you are not. I guess that its your situation and your career. But from my experience in aviation ,,, you dont wanna be the guy who is at the center of attention when it comes to fighting off the {censored}birds. The chief pilot isnt deaf dumb and stupid,,, he doesnt want the guy who gets involved it that....typcially they let guys like that just fly with the {censored}birds. I am not the pro in music that you are, but I think i understand the situtation you are in. I am not trying to bust your ass over this. I can assure you ,, you cant bust mine....{censored} rolls off me like water off a ducks back ,,, I am way too old to really care about the {censored}birds. If and when i get back in the game on music ,, i am just going to do it like i did it years ago. Try work with people I like and put out the best music i can. There will be bands better and there will be bands that are worse. You will get hired and you will get fired. Thats just how life is. Good luck on your little deal you got going... hope things work out for you. and oh yea , dont fly formation with {censored}birds... becuase there will always be one that will take a dump on you....even if you dont think you have it comming. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Sometimes you gotta take a stand....patrons that cared about the open mic were the ones who started the protest, calling the club etc...I took the blame because I wrote the blog about it....Sometimes you have to take a stand buddy, and i'm not one to ever be afraid to do it when that time comes. I bet I gig as much or more then anyone on these forums too...what does that say? I'm an idiot to stand up for my principals? An Idiot, probably not, but your posting makes you comes across as a self important egotistic asshat. Just because you claim to gig more that anyone on this forum your self important opinion is somehow the rule of the land? I'm sure you are a legend in you own time but a very bitter self important legend:rolleyes: You are just a musician get over yourself. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBJ Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Well if they start having this onstage in clubs, replacing real musicians then we have sunk to new lows, and we will reap what we sow. No one I know wants to see that..No one I associate with wants to see that replace a musician. I don't care about anyone else. My ignorance filter kicks in and doesn't allow me to see them anyway. well then what's the issue? the bar manager is well within his rights to try something new to get more people spending money and if people are so supporting of live music then why are you getting worked up about this at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 we had the guy that worked out of the trunks of their car, we had guys that would undercut you, we had the people who would fly for free to get hours. We had them that would go to your boss and offer to your co pilots job for free... That sounds pretty similar to some of the crap I have seen in the I.T. field, particularly consulting. My experience and approach is pretty similar to yours, Rhat - you can't get drawn into the low-balling and "something for nothing" deals. My hourly rate is non-negotiable, and is based on my years of experience and successful track record. If someone has a problem with that, then I have no problem directing them towards the "chop shop" 25$/hour hacks; after all, you get what you pay for. Once I took a sub job for one of these chop shops - the fresh out of college kid couldn't get the job done and they brought me in to bail em out. I charged em my normal rate, which they balked at - but I got the job done 100% in one weeked, just like I estimated I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueHeaven Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 well then what's the issue? the bar manager is well within his rights to try something new to get more people spending money and if people are so supporting of live music then why are you getting worked up about this at all? Because GH mimics playing guitar. If the manager had decided to have a Dart or Beer Pong Night instead I doubt there would have been a 5 page post about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 well then what's the issue? the bar manager is well within his rights to try something new to get more people spending money and if people are so supporting of live music then why are you getting worked up about this at all? Exactly. Personally, if I lost a gig to guitar hero, I would never admit it - that's kind of embarassing in a way. Maybe it's time to re-evaluate what your act brings to the table - maybe it's time to switch out your setlists with new material, or make some other change to keep your performance fresh and new. Too many bands just play the same tunes, and people do get kind of tired of that. Not saying that's the case - how could I know - but you could possibly benefit from taking a good objective look at the whole situation and seeing what YOU can do better. Obviously, the bar felt like a change was needed - money is often the motivator - so what can you do as a performer to make sure that you can bring in more bucks than Guitar Hero? I know you've worked hard at what you do - but that should not interfere with your ability to be objective. Why be so quick to blame external forces, when perhaps the problem lies within yourself? It takes a very confident and mature perspective to be able to question yourself like this, without guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 An Idiot, probably not, but your posting makes you comes across as a self important egotistic asshat. Just because you claim to gig more that anyone on this forum your self important opinion is somehow the rule of the land?I'm sure you are a legend in you own time but a very bitter self important legend:rolleyes: You are just a musician get over yourself.Max I can get defensive but that's not an accurate picture of who I am in person regardless of what I made myself seem like. Just posted this as an FYI to all of us. We'll all take it and apply the info as it applies to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Exactly. Personally, if I lost a gig to guitar hero, I would never admit it - that's kind of embarassing in a way. Maybe it's time to re-evaluate what your act brings to the table - maybe it's time to switch out your setlists with new material, or make some other change to keep your performance fresh and new. Too many bands just play the same tunes, and people do get kind of tired of that. Not saying that's the case - how could I know - but you could possibly benefit from taking a good objective look at the whole situation and seeing what YOU can do better. Obviously, the bar felt like a change was needed - money is often the motivator - so what can you do as a performer to make sure that you can bring in more bucks than Guitar Hero? I know you've worked hard at what you do - but that should not interfere with your ability to be objective. Why be so quick to blame external forces, when perhaps the problem lies within yourself? It takes a very confident and mature perspective to be able to question yourself like this, without guilt. Oh, I don't think I mentioned this but I was covering this open mic for a friend who has built it up for 5 years. When I say I lost a gig, I did lose one week of hosting it but it wasn't mine and I didn't bring it down. In fact, it's the most popular open mic up here and was started and run by Jared Woods, who is the most popular singer songwriter in Anchorage 5 years running. It was an open mic so It didn't have anything to do with my playing or my setlists or my entertaining. I thought the fact that ANY LIVE MUSIC Longstanding gig was being replaced by a Computer game night might be of some interest to us all on a macro level. This doesn't have any bearing on my personal show. It seems there are many posters who either didn't realize that and thought that I had personally lost a gig...Like me entertaining..playing and singing, to Guitar Hero.....LOL If that happened, I would NEVER NEVER NEVER admit it!!! This is about a live music night, and open mic at that getting replaced by Guitar Hero.....They want to shake it up....It's some bar manager's idea of being hip.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 When was the last time you gigged professionally on a regular basis? How long did you do it for? Are you a bandleader, gig-getter, soloist, fulltimer? Is this your livelihood or your business? I strongly doubt it........... Well its has been years,, and you did call me out on it. However i do have experience in what I did do for a living. I was a pilot. I ran flight schools, flew charter , worked corp, and even ran my own aviation business. we had the guy that worked out of the trunks of their car, we had guys that would undercut you, we had the people who would fly for free to get hours. We had them that would go to your boss and offer to your co pilots job for free... So i fully understand what its like when you feel like people are taking food out of your mouth. I did a stint when i was young were i did play in working bands. We were quite good, never played for free... and did slug it out in our local scene. I would not call us pro ,,, but our product was pretty well respected. 60 buck splits in 1970 wasnt bad for high school kids, especially when you had a 7 piece band with brass. Am I a pro musician .. Na ,, just a guy who enjoys music and have continued to enjoy and play it for my own enjoyment since i was a kid. One thing i have learned over the years is ,,, you never do yourself any good getting involved in the politics of ,,,so and so, is taking money out of my pocket that I rightfully diserve because i am a pro ,,, and they are not. We called those guys {censored}birds in aviation. The {censored}birds always complained about everything.... the rest of us just flew the planes for as much money as we could get..tried to work our way up,,,got hired , got fired,. and never worried about the other guys. You had to stay above the frey to really live up to the level of a pro pilot. I looked at it this way ,, if a {censored}bird cold get into my paycheck or under my skin ,, maybe i wasnt the pro i thought i was. You have yourself in the middle of a deal where the media kinda is viewing you as the ring leader, even if you are not. I guess that its your situation and your career. But from my experience in aviation ,,, you dont wanna be the guy who is at the center of attention when it comes to fighting off the {censored}birds. The chief pilot isnt deaf dumb and stupid,,, he doesnt want the guy who gets involved it that....typcially they let guys like that just fly with the {censored}birds. I am not the pro in music that you are, but I think i understand the situtation you are in. I am not trying to bust your ass over this. I can assure you ,, you cant bust mine....{censored} rolls off me like water off a ducks back ,,, I am way too old to really care about the {censored}birds. If and when i get back in the game on music ,, i am just going to do it like i did it years ago. Try work with people I like and put out the best music i can. There will be bands better and there will be bands that are worse. You will get hired and you will get fired. Thats just how life is. Good luck on your little deal you got going... hope things work out for you. and oh yea , dont fly formation with {censored}birds... becuase there will always be one that will take a dump on you....even if you dont think you have it comming. rat Fair enough Rhat...I see where you are coming from as well and in terms of my contemporaries in the scene I approach it just like you. I go in do my job the best I can and get as much work as I can for as much as I can. I don't worry about the {censored}birds who come in for nothing, or try to steal my gigs, etc etc...I'm right with you on everything you said...Agree 100% By the way, you SHOULD get back into music but on YOUR TERMS! Watch the Bars though...They are in the Biz of selling Alcohol and couldn't care less about the music. I'm going to begin working my way out of them with more upscale private and coporate things. Sorry I came down you. My temper is WAYWAYWAY better then it used to be when i'm young but the Irish/Italian that I am, I still get hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Because GH mimics playing guitar. If the manager had decided to have a Dart or Beer Pong Night instead I doubt there would have been a 5 page post about it. There would be if he decided to have those things on the stage, and eliminate the bands, instead of the back of the bar where they usually are held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Fair enough Rhat...I see where you are coming from as well and in terms of my contemporaries in the scene I approach it just like you. I go in do my job the best I can and get as much work as I can for as much as I can. I don't worry about the {censored}birds who come in for nothing, or try to steal my gigs, etc etc...I'm right with you on everything you said...Agree 100% By the way, you SHOULD get back into music but on YOUR TERMS! Watch the Bars though...They are in the Biz of selling Alcohol and couldn't care less about the music. I'm going to begin working my way out of them with more upscale private and coporate things. Sorry I came down you. My temper is WAYWAYWAY better then it used to be when i'm young but the Irish/Italian that I am, I still get hot. I am a big boy ,,,I know how business works. The bar business isnt an easy one. There is alot of overhead and alot of downside risk. They all have their entertainment budget.. and they all have to make money. For me the money i made playing was never anything other than a way to keep score on how well our band stacked up against the rest of the pack. My theory is worry about the music first.... the second you start to worry about the money, typically you are going to end up with less of it. Put out a good product , become a known quainity and be reliable and easy to get along with. The money will take care of itself. You cant treat the bar like its your enemy...you just play along and get what you can get from them ,, and when its time to jump up a rung on the pecking order you move on. ya gotta keep your ego out of your decision making process and you cant want anything so bad that you end up being a {censored}bird. Some guys will be nothing but third rate musicans. If i am one of those guys ...I am going to be the best third rate musican i can ....ya never know , you can even end up in a first rate band if you know how to handle yourself. a first rate {censored}bird will be pissing and moaning because you got the job he wants. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 I am a big boy ,,,I know how business works. The bar business isnt an easy one. There is alot of overhead and alot of downside risk. They all have their entertainment budget.. and they all have to make money. For me the money i made playing was never anything other than a way to keep score on how well our band stacked up against the rest of the pack. My theory is worry about the music first.... the second you start to worry about the money, typically you are going to end up with less of it. Put out a good product , become a known quainity and be reliable and easy to get along with. The money will take care of itself. You cant treat the bar like its your enemy...you just play along and get what you can get from them ,, and when its time to jump up a rung on the pecking order you move on. ya gotta keep your ego out of your decision making process and you cant want anything so bad that you end up being a {censored}bird. Some guys will be nothing but third rate musicans. If i am one of those guys ...I am going to be the best third rate musican i can ....ya never know , you can even end up in a first rate band if you know how to handle yourself. a first rate {censored}bird will be pissing and moaning because you got the job he wants. rat Words of wisdom from the Rhat man:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 24, 2008 Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 You cant treat the bar like its your enemy...you just play along and get what you can get from them ,, and when its time to jump up a rung on the pecking order you move on. ya gotta keep your ego out of your decision making process and you cant want anything so bad that you end up being a {censored}bird. Some guys will be nothing but third rate musicans. If i am one of those guys ...I am going to be the best third rate musican i can ....ya never know , you can even end up in a first rate band if you know how to handle yourself. a first rate {censored}bird will be pissing and moaning because you got the job he wants. rat Well said man Sven, I dig where you're coming from anyway - I'm like you in that I hate to see music pushed aside for some stupid fad (around here it's "cornhole") It's just in my situation, we've still got work to do ourselves to tighten up the songs, improve our stage presence, etc.... In my view, this is a never ending goal - you can't rest on your laurels or you wind up like so many other tired bands that just go through the motions with the same lame setlist they've been using for years. So it's therapeutic to talk about, but I think we can help to change the situation by striving to be the best we can be, as entertainers and musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted January 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2008 Yea Wade..im with ya.... I'm telling you though, I'm willing to do whatever it takes man...WHATEVER it takes, to step it up and give the people something they can dig into. I just don't know what that's going to be because the game is changing so much....I don't want to end up hosting a combination Rockband/Karaoke/Dance Dance Revolution Night......I doubt it will come to that as I suspect there will always be at least a small subset of true music fans that a good live musician or group does it for them..Honestly, I'm starting to get the feeling that we can't compete with these games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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