Members 6StringSling Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 That's cool man - that's why we rehearse and get better.A lot of those songs are early takes; in fact, we're adding another rehearsal just to address those issues. I don't want to hijack this thread but I'll say that I don't understand why, if after 8 months, your band is still that bad that you're adding another rehearsal why jump my {censored} for having a physical disability that affects the time it takes for me to play a song well? I'd rather be able to play a dozen songs well than play 4 dozen songs mediocre to poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't want to hijack this thread but I'll say that I don't understand why, if after 8 months, your band is still that bad that you're adding another rehearsal why jump my {censored} for having a physical disability that affects the time it takes for me to play a song well? I'd rather be able to play a dozen songs well than play 4 dozen songs mediocre to poorly. I'm not jumping your {censored}. You should have just said off the bat that you had a disability - dude, I understand your frustration, alright? We just re-recorded "hold on loosely" last week, btw and there are no train wrecks. See, we went and worked on that. The kiss tunes on that page? First time we'd played em as a band - since then we've played em several times and trust me they're much tighter. We're not gigging yet bro, so you're hearing works in progress - some of them over a month old. But not to go on and on; if you really wanna hear our "gig ready" material, check back near the end of the month.... BTW, a dozen songs won't get you any kind of gig, but you know that right? Bands take a little time sometimes dude, but ya gotta start somewhere. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 In Electric Guitars is a thread about a guy who won $10,000 worth of Gibson gear in a contest (that Gibson immediately refused to honor and still hasn't). I was reading some of the comments and came across this gem: OK, so I am a first time guitar buyer who was looking at the Epiphone. Since that is out what should I be looking at? Needs to be left handed and I am a true beginner but I am pretty good at guitar hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 OK, so I am a first time guitar buyer who was looking at the Epiphone. Since that is out what should I be looking at? Needs to be left handed and I am a true beginner but I am pretty good at guitar hero. I can see it now: "What are those shiny metal things, and where did the buttons go?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 I can see it now: "What are those shiny metal things, and where did the buttons go?" who knows GH hero may enspire people to learn to play guitar. Guitar was pretty much a hillbilly instrument before the beatles. The beatles on ed sullivan inspired alot of kids to learn to play guitar. When i was real young eveyone took piano lessons. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 who knows GH hero may enspire people to learn to play guitar. I think there's big difference between inspiration and aspiration and what wades_keys is saying is that from the dude's post, he's making it sound as if somehow, being good at Guitar Hero could translate to playing a real guitar in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coredumped Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 In Electric Guitars is a thread about a guy who won $10,000 worth of Gibson gear in a contest (that Gibson immediately refused to honor and still hasn't). I was reading some of the comments and came across this gem: I tried to resist posting to this very entertaining thread, honestly. So what this quote says is that someone who played guitar hero has decided to play guitar. That's got to be a good thing, right? How many other kids are deciding to give it a go? I've had a few interesting jobs and pastimes in my life, and in each case there were people who would make similar arguments to the ones I've been reading on this (thoroughly entertaining) thread, I'll keep it brief: one was working with professional wrestlers. Wrestlers pride themselves on not being fake when they 'fight', they spend a lot of time dumping on kids who wrestle in their backyard emulating the guys they see on TV who aren't trained the right way and "aren't really wrestling". "They are not real wrestlers, they are taking our shows, any moron with cash to rent a ring can run a show and ruin the purity of our great sport!" (it helps if you think that last sentence in a similar tone to how you'd "Think of the Children!!"). At the end of the day it's still entertainment, one set of guys just having fun, one set of guys who've trained for years and practiced harder with more risks than any musician I've ever met. To the casual audience it's still just fake fighting. The real fans are educated enough to spot the difference. The casual audience unfortunately outnumbers the real fans. To those trained wrestlers who take themselves a little too seriously it's a blight, a plague that should be stopped, and when a 'backyarder' decides to get real training, because of the fun he had with his friends, there are some 'purists' who will go to incredible lengths to try and humiliate him in front of his current and potentially future peers. So why is GH a useful tool, broken down in ways that perhaps us oh-so-serious-musicians can appreciate? Well, I can only speak from my own experience but I had one hell of a time teaching my child about the importance of practicing her real music regularly. "It's hard, it's not fun, practicing sucks, I can't play!" were things I often heard - until I bought guitar hero home. After initial complaints about how hard it was to make it sound good she got into the habit of playing the game progressively harder each time until she can outplay me. So, she's learned some basic hand/eye co-ordination, she learned to do some alternate picking movements, she now has an understanding regarding the mechanics of guitar playing. Guess what? She stopped complaining about practicing, she'll spend as much time as necessary to get the results she wants out of her instruments. Why? because GH gave her more feedback than traditional instruments could. It removed the 'OMG I'm never going to get this right, I dont have any natural musical talent!' feeling that causes people to quit, it rewards people for practicing. That's translated to her putting more effort into all her learning. Is it 'really playing music'? No. But can I have a great time jamming with my non-musician friends and family? yes Do we have a good time? Yes. Is it funny watching my wife do a Pete Townsend windmill off the sofa when she thinks no one is watching and she's playing by herself? what do you think? Is it the same as playing those songs 'for real'? No, but that's not the point. I think those who feel offended by the existence of GH may be taking their 'art' a little too seriously. More people deciding to try an instrument because a video game inspired them can only be a good thing. Eventually GH gets old, the licks remain the same, people either lose interest and gravitate to the next method of entertainment, some will pick up an instrument and try to create the next set of tracks that gets put onto GH 10. I have tried to avoid the entire topic regarding the removal of open mic night, but thought that the above comment was indicative of some peoples' thinking here: to rip on a kid who has decided to take the plunge playing real music because he had fun playing a video game. wow, my post count went back to zero: thats what I get for not posting in a few years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 I think there's big difference between inspiration and aspiration and what wades_keys is saying is that from the dude's post, he's making it sound as if somehow, being good at Guitar Hero could translate to playing a real guitar in some way. In some ways there are transferable skills ,,, they are learning left hand dextarity and timing skills. Its not playing guitar for sure. But its kinda like a guy who plays piano picking up guitar .... they are totally different , but when you switch you do start out ahead of the guy that doesnt do anything. By no means am i saying that being great at GH is going to make you a good guitar player ,,,They are ahead of the guy who bowls for a hobby. They like music and they are able to do things with their hands in time with music. There has to be some transferable skills that would make guitar easier to start from scratch. Their fingers are going to get sore ,, they are going to have to learn making chord shapes like any beginner....they will have to learn scales. They also have the ability to sit down and practice somthing ,,,I have never played GH ,, but i am sure it takes practice. Just being willing to practice is a head start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 Wades_Keys I went and listened to your stuff with Throttle. I would not post that stuff as a demo to get gigs. It just doesn't sound very good. First the songs all seemed to be beyond your singers range. There is high gain guitar on everything even tunes that should not have that much gain. Also the general recording quality should be much higher. Check out our demo that I recorded at our practice space with an old Roland VS 8 track. http://www.myspace.com/hotboxrox It is not perfect but you should be able to hear the difference in vocals and general recording quality. P.S. I liked some of those songs, I haven't heard some of those is a while. However your siger just doesn't them justice. Never underestimate the importance of a good singer. Many people in the audience barley notice anyones performace other than the singer. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 In some ways there are transferable skills ,,, they are learning left hand dextarity and timing skills. Its not playing guitar for sure. But its kinda like a guy who plays piano picking up guitar .... they are totally different , but when you switch you do start out ahead of the guy that doesnt do anything. By no means am i saying that being great at GH is going to make you a good guitar player ,,,They are ahead of the guy who bowls for a hobby. They like music and they are able to do things with their hands in time with music. There has to be some transferable skills that would make guitar easier to start from scratch. Their fingers are going to get sore ,, they are going to have to learn making chord shapes like any beginner....they will have to learn scales. They also have the ability to sit down and practice somthing ,,,I have never played GH ,, but i am sure it takes practice. Just being willing to practice is a head start. If I were teaching anyone at the moment the first thing I would do is ask if they played Guitar Hero or Rock Band and if they answered "yes" I would tell them the first lesson is to forget everything you learned about those games. As far as practicing goes, kids will practice anything to get good at it so saying that Guitar Hero and Rock Band help them towards practicing a real instrument is meaningless - if they want to excel, they will practice; it's that simple and it matters not if it's a video game, skateboard, bicycle or musical instrument. As far as I'm concerned, nothing about playing Guitar Hero can translate to the instrument itself anymore than playing option QB can translate into being a pocket passer - when your first impulse is to run instead of pass you're not going to be practicing passing skills and will not be a very effective passer. The way you play the controller in Guitar Hero is not training your hands and fingers into playing the real thing - in fact, it's probably helping you to develop bad habits that will make learning the real thing even more difficult. This doesn't mean that people won't convince themselves that playing Guitar Hero made a difference in their ability to learn to play a real guitar because they will; I just wish it was testable so we could see the truth revealed on Mythbusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 I didn't "rip" on him. But just from the way posted what he did it's obvious that he thinks Guitar Hero will have given him some kind of edge. It won't have.If I were teaching anyone at the moment the first thing I would do is ask if they played Guitar Hero or Rock Band and if they answered "yes" I would tell them the first lesson is to forget everything you learned about those games.As far as practicing goes, kids will practice anything to get good at it so saying that Guitar Hero and Rock Band help them towards practicing a real instrument is meaningless - if they want to excel, they will practice; it's that simple and it matters not if it's a video game, skateboard, bicycle or musical instrument.As far as I'm concerned, nothing about playing Guitar Hero can translate to the instrument itself anymore than playing option QB can translate into being a pocket passer - when your first impulse is to run instead of pass you're not going to be practicing passing skills and will not be a very effective passer.The way you play the controller in Guitar Hero is not training your hands and fingers into playing the real thing - in fact, it's probably helping you to develop bad habits that will make learning the real thing even more difficult.This doesn't mean that people won't convince themselves that playing Guitar Hero made a difference in their ability to learn to play a real guitar because they will; I just wish it was testable so we could see the truth revealed on Mythbusters. Ok ,, how much experience have you had teaching people do to things. I can tell you that running a back hoe and flying an airplane are not related ,, but having taught people to fly planes which is a pretty complex activity ,, guys who run heavy equipment learn to fly real easy. The bookwork gives them fits. The really smart person on the books is typically the hardest to teach to fly. I taught skiing alot in my life. Teaching that isnt easy either.... the doers and not the thinkers learn that alot easier. Guitar hero takes manual dextarity ....to some degree. It takes making a finger movent in sink to a sound. I have never played the game,,, but i have taught thing that take motor skills. Guitar hero isnt playing a guitar .. but it may have some of the same basic motor skill requirments. Its visual ,, so is reading tab. It requires your fingers to move. So does guitar playing. While i agree the person that plays guitar hero ,, is going to be starting from zero when they pick up a guitar for the first time ,,,, they may have an edge on the guy that is a bowler or football player. I always asked flight students what they did for a living .... if the guy says ,,, i drive a truck , or i run heavy equipment .... They were pretty easy to teach. I also ask them their hobbies... if they skied well ,, they were pretty easy to teach ,,,, if they said i am a scientist ,, they were a hard case pretty well all of the time. You want people who do ,, not think. your brain is your enemy. Is a expert guitar hero player gonna be an expert guitar player ,,, yea if he works at it as hard as he worked at becomming an expert at guitar hero. They all start out as beginners. Keyboard players learn guitar faster than alot of people ,, they learn bass faster than a guitar player..if they also know how to play guitar. While it may not seem logical ,,, skills from completely different activities do transfer into other things you are trying to learn. Complex motor skills are complex motor skills. They connect in strange ways.... but they do connect. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 Wades_Keys I went and listened to your stuff with Throttle. I would not post that stuff as a demo to get gigs. It just doesn't sound very good. That's not what I'm using it for - we're not actively seeking gigs right now. Those are just rehearsal recordings. Once we're finished with everything, I'll put only the best ones up there. The demo clip at the top is a prototype of how we'll do our demo - other than that most of those songs are for our own use, right now. Thanks for the advice, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 P.S. I liked some of those songs, I haven't heard some of those is a while. However your siger just doesn't them justice. Never underestimate the importance of a good singer. Many people in the audience barley notice anyones performace other than the singer. It is what it is bro... Like I said - those aint' meant to show our best, nor did I ask anyone for critique along those lines. I like keeping the rough ones up there - it reminds the guys what we need to work on.... I don't mind taking a little slag on an internet site as a result - why should I? Again, I didn't come on here asking people to "check out those songs", nor did I represent that they were anything i would use to try and get gigs with - right now that site is for the band to use.... Look man - I don't come on here to start no pissing contests or toss slag about folks. I didn't ask ANYBODY for their {censored}ing opinion about our singer, or about our tunes. Nothing I said in this thread, required anybody to go and give the {censored}ing peanut gallery on my stuff. So I appreciate your opinion, but I don't appreciate being drawn into some stupid pissing match about whose band "sucks" or doesn't. Your stuff is good, clean and slick. I see you do corporates. Bet you've been together a little while. We ain't a corporate band - just a bar band playing covers, and no doubt not to your standards, but hey, that's life.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 Not trying to slag on you, just offering some advice on what could improve your sound. We actually play more bar gigs than events. We have been together about 1 1/2 years, not a long time really. Good luck, keep fighting the good fight! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 Ok ,, how much experience have you had teaching people do to things. A lot. No one has a 100% success rate but the people/groups I train usually are significantly above average for the quality and quantity of work they produce. That's because I have 3 simple rules that I follow: 1) I remember what it's like not to know how to do something, 2) No one is going to fail because of me and 3) I show them how to do everything I know how to do and when I learn something new I pass it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 25, 2008 Members Share Posted January 25, 2008 Not trying to slag on you, just offering some advice on what could improve your sound.We actually play more bar gigs than events. We have been together about 1 1/2 years, not a long time really.Good luck, keep fighting the good fight!Max I hear ya man; we've got to drop several more tunes that aren't working and I'm just sorta frustrated with that. All the more reason why it's so important for everyone to do their homework... I guess it's also important to know limitations, but in our case we're finding out vocal limitations as we go and we've had to drop a lot of tunes and work up new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlantsberger Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 As far as practicing goes, kids will practice anything to get good at it so saying that Guitar Hero and Rock Band help them towards practicing a real instrument is meaningless - if they want to excel, they will practice; it's that simple and it matters not if it's a video game, skateboard, bicycle or musical instrument. I don't know about that. Skateboarding, sure, it's active, keeps them engaged. But things where you have to sit and concentrate and don't get an instant thrill (even if you suck at skateboarding, it's fun to go fast) I think most kids (of course, not all) are far less likely to stick with it unless they have a parent keeping them on practicing. That's why there are SO many people who kind-of-play-guitar-but-not-really-but-yeah-I-can-strum-a-few-chords-and-play-a-dylan-song out there. And I think Rhat is right about manual dexterity. Of course guitar hero is VERY different, but I'll tell you what, I play it on weekends at friends houses sometimes, and my pinky gets the same worn out feeling it gets when I do my finger exercises every night. Again, like you said, they're not even gonna know where to start with a guitar (and I agree, this kid's tone makes it sound like he thinks he has a starting point from playing GH), but they might have a little more finger dexterity and coordination than somone else that's starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 I don't know about that. Skateboarding, sure, it's active, keeps them engaged. But things where you have to sit and concentrate and don't get an instant thrill (even if you suck at skateboarding, it's fun to go fast) I think most kids (of course, not all) are far less likely to stick with it unless they have a parent keeping them on practicing. That's why there are SO many people who kind-of-play-guitar-but-not-really-but-yeah-I-can-strum-a-few-chords-and-play-a-dylan-song out there.And I think Rhat is right about manual dexterity. Of course guitar hero is VERY different, but I'll tell you what, I play it on weekends at friends houses sometimes, and my pinky gets the same worn out feeling it gets when I do my finger exercises every night. Again, like you said, they're not even gonna know where to start with a guitar (and I agree, this kid's tone makes it sound like he thinks he has a starting point from playing GH), but they might have a little more finger dexterity and coordination than somone else that's starting. GH might make them want to learn the real thing. I used to get alot of students that started out flying RC airplanes... THey are nothing like flying real ones. But it did inspire them to get their pilots lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lancaster Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 It's just a gimmick. I highly doubt that watching people play Guitar Hero will make a bar more money on a weekend night than a live band that has fans. It's more for the novelty that this is happening now. It'll wear off in time. I hope you're right, but didnt people say the same thing about karaoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 GH might make them want to learn the real thing. I used to get alot of students that started out flying RC airplanes... THey are nothing like flying real ones. But it did inspire them to get their pilots lessons. It might make them want to learn the real thing but how many will stick with it when they find out how difficult it can be compared to the game? My personal opinion is that if you did a study of the failure rate of kids wanting to learn the real thing after playing Guitar Hero vs kids learning the real thing without ever having played Guitar Hero, the kids who played Guitar Hero first would have a higher failure rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 I don't know about that. Skateboarding, sure, it's active, keeps them engaged. But things where you have to sit and concentrate and don't get an instant thrill (even if you suck at skateboarding, it's fun to go fast) I think most kids (of course, not all) are far less likely to stick with it unless they have a parent keeping them on practicing. I think that a kid who has a parent who keeps after them to get in there and practice will give up a sooner than kid who's allowed to play and learn when they feel like it. If a kid is feeling pressured into it, they aren't going to have fun and will approach it with a negative attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 I think that a kid who has a parent who keeps after them to get in there and practice will give up a sooner than kid who's allowed to play and learn when they feel like it. If a kid is feeling pressured into it, they aren't going to have fun and will approach it with a negative attitude. I agree about the parental pressure.... The teacher should be the source of inspiration to the student, not the parent. What motivated me at piano lessons was the desire to be able to play as well as my teacher, not pressure from parents. A good teacher inspires the student to ask - "how did you do that"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BobBertin Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 add to that that they are all drinking to fuel up their courage - lots of drinks get sold. people go to karaoke in groups - after work - to get drunk and make fun of each other. the getting drunk part $$$$coming to see our band they pay a cover and drink reasonably, some venues sell food... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 I agree about the parental pressure....The teacher should be the source of inspiration to the student, not the parent.What motivated me at piano lessons was the desire to be able to play as well as my teacher, not pressure from parents.A good teacher inspires the student to ask - "how did you do that"? What motivated me ,, is when i wanted to play keys for a band. I started giggin at age 15. I could have given a {censored} about my piano or organ teacher. I took some rock keyboard lessons from the keyboard player from the tempests ,,, a regional rock band. He was teaching out of the local music store. I knew all my chords from organ lessons ,,, he taught me some licks and some basic rock and roll chord progressions and I landed a slot in a local rock band. I was never really that motivated till I started playing in a band. I learned to play guitar by teaching myself in college and learing stuff from one of the guys in the house that was a pretty good guitar player.....He was the guy that taught me a 9th chord lol. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted January 26, 2008 Members Share Posted January 26, 2008 I think those who feel offended by the existence of GH may be taking their 'art' a little too seriously. I don't see anyone here being offended by the existence of GH. What's offensive is barowners cancelling live music to substitute people playing GH as entertainment. To me, they may as well put a game of bridge or chess on the stage. 'Oooh, will Johnny be able to hit all the colored dots on "Running With The Devil?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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