Members Kramerguy Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hey guys, we played last weekend, and it was the second gig in row that really is making me re-think almost everything- Two of our members are friends with a lot of musicians from other local bands, and they have come out in droves to support us. The interesting thing about musicians- they tend to not dance. So our last gig, almost nobody danced the entire night, got some 'okay' claps between songs, but mostly they all just stood there (or sat) and stared. I hate that, because musicians tend to judge, BUT.. the place was packed, in both cases. And when people aren't dancing, guess what they are doing? Binge drinking! This was the second time in a row we got a BONUS on top the agreed price, which makes me really think about song selections and goals- Why NOT put in more slow songs, and non-dancy songs, and intentionally drive the crowd to the bar for refills? Why do we want butts on the dance floor anyways? Just to show we can get chicks to dance? Yes it's FUN and seems to create a certain atmosphere, but it seems like the gigs where we had butts on the floor the whole night ended up with the bar complaining about a "meh" night. Not that I'm suggesting not playing any dance music, but I am pondering why I would put more than 2 dance songs together without padding 2 other songs to make sure everyone gets a chance to refill. It's almost a subliminal message to the patrons to sheep them to the bar at regular intervals... By 'other songs' I mean songs that are less dancy, like Rush or something that people would know and like, but not necessarily want to dance to- Of course all this train of thought is based on our usual crowd more than the musician crowd.. and the musician crowd doesn't seem to even like the dancy stuff anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 But first.... A TOAST. Nah man, just getting psyched for the gig tomorrow. Knock em dead and keep the drinks flowing and the good times going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hey nice peart quote, that violin solo in that song floors me, I wanted to buy an $1800 guitar synth just to be able to mimic it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hey nice peart quote, that violin solo in that song floors me, I wanted to buy an $1800 guitar synth just to be able to mimic it lol. Yeah, that's one of my fave B side Rush tunes of all time. I love the 2nd verse too. I always pictured Ernest Hemingway there: "Writer stares with glassy eyes, defies the empty page. His hair is white, his face is lined, and streaked with tears of rage." I've been screaming about the fake dance floor effect for a while in here. Looks like you're experiencing it too. Don't count out the RAWK style stuff to get people pouring down the alcohol; it's just you gotta put it in the right spots. Easier said than done, but yeah: you'll see em sitting, talking, and DRINKING. that's good. A lot of those folks will get a little loose later and then suddenly "Mustang Sally" or "Saw Her Standing There" will get em up and dancing. At least that's how our gigs have been going lately. Good ring, and it's helped from the early crowd that's not up and dancing yet. Closing out with rock always works well for us too; those that stay usually wanna hear it by then if you've had em dancing, and the band gets to bust out a little and get a little loud. I think if you have strong closing songs, you should stick to them because your regulars get used to "radar love" or "superstition" being the last song before the 10 minute break. Oh yeah, we take 10 minute breaks and not the usual 15 or more. I think that really helps too: and we let em know "back in 10". Not: "see you in a few", but "see you in 10". I think that gets people to stick around a little longer: what's 10 minutes - a drink and a trip to the pisser and we're back on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hey guys, we played last weekend, and it was the second gig in row that really is making me re-think almost everything-Two of our members are friends with a lot of musicians from other local bands, and they have come out in droves to support us.The interesting thing about musicians- they tend to not dance. So our last gig, almost nobody danced the entire night, got some 'okay' claps between songs, but mostly they all just stood there (or sat) and stared. I hate that, because musicians tend to judge, BUT.. the place was packed, in both cases. And when people aren't dancing, guess what they are doing? Binge drinking!This was the second time in a row we got a BONUS on top the agreed price, which makes me really think about song selections and goals-Why NOT put in more slow songs, and non-dancy songs, and intentionally drive the crowd to the bar for refills? Why do we want butts on the dance floor anyways? Just to show we can get chicks to dance? Yes it's FUN and seems to create a certain atmosphere, but it seems like the gigs where we had butts on the floor the whole night ended up with the bar complaining about a "meh" night.Not that I'm suggesting not playing any dance music, but I am pondering why I would put more than 2 dance songs together without padding 2 other songs to make sure everyone gets a chance to refill. It's almost a subliminal message to the patrons to sheep them to the bar at regular intervals...By 'other songs' I mean songs that are less dancy, like Rush or something that people would know and like, but not necessarily want to dance to-Of course all this train of thought is based on our usual crowd more than the musician crowd.. and the musician crowd doesn't seem to even like the dancy stuff anyways. LOL....seems pretty logical doesnt it. thats why dinner shows are sweet ,,, they drink alot , they eat alot and you get home early. dancers are gratifying , but i question if they can out spend a bunch of drunks piggin out on food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 yeah Wade, we actually close with really hard stuff, godsmack, RATM, drowning pool, etc.. We kinda do everything from jesse's girl to Bodies. We've tried to gear that to the venues but tend to do the light at the beginning towards heavy at the end. Drunk people dance to anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 We actually close with really hard stuff, godsmack, RATM, drowning pool, etc.. We kinda do everything from jesse's girl to Bodies. We've tried to gear that to the venues but tend to do the light at the beginning towards heavy at the end. Drunk people dance to anything Keep the heavy at the end for SURE. That always works, even for a more low key band like ours. But try some more rocking stuff in teh first set too: stuff that shows your band in its best light. You might not get people even looking at you, but they'll hear you and think: "Damn, these guys are alright. i'll stick around" Don't ever waste a good dance tune in the first set: make em wait for set two. You figure 45 minutes for the drinks to kick in: they can wait another 10...reel em in that way. To be honest: we play all our blues stuff in set 1 (not ALL, but most). That's really seemed to work in terms of getting people to stick around and drink a little, and keeps us from bombing the dance floor later with blues. One tbirds tune we do does okay on the floor: the rest of it is all 1st set as far as I'm concerned.... Hell, people are finishing their dinner: blues stuff is good background music for em - doesn't really demand much from the listener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ku'Yleh Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 The classic "dance tunes-> girls dance-> guys buy drinks for girls-> guys fail to score-> guys buy drinks for themselves to soften the blow-> bar makes $$" system still works well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 The classic "dance tunes-> girls dance-> guys buy drinks for girls-> guys fail to score-> guys buy drinks for themselves to soften the blow-> bar makes $$" system still works well for us. Playing dance tunes to an early crowd still digesting their dinner is like pissing up a rope. Guess it all depends on the setup. The ones where the band is separated from the diners by a wall or more are the ones where you can do that. But even then those clubs can be tricky: you want to lure the diners from the other room over to where you are, and I've heard way too many bands fire their load into an empty room while the diners exit out the other door, showing no interest in the *usually too loud* band in the next room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 lol wade- The closest thing to blues we do is ac/dc all night long and a couple of skynyrd tunes. Guess playing SRV and 145 blues is standard protocol down there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 lol wade- The closest thing to blues we do is ac/dc all night long and a couple of skynyrd tunes. Guess playing SRV and 145 blues is standard protocol down there? Nah, just the band I'm in dude. I've played more AC/DC, Skynyrd, Hagar, VH than SRV and other blues stuff over the years, by FAR. Probably better at that style overall than blues TBH. SO throw the slow skynyrd up there in set 1: simple man gets em drinking. Works for us anyway. You were talking about giving em breaks? Yeah, that's cool too. But what I'm saying is try and snag some of those folks that didn't know a band was going to be there - the ones paying their dinner tab and maybe finishing their drink while you're setting up. Even five or six of those type folks can drop some coin: it all helps. So keep the fuddy duddy's around with the softer stuff, and once they drink a little more, they'll be more open to getting up and dancing and whatnot. Then they'll take off and you close out the old faithful drunkards with the heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Playing dance tunes to an early crowd still digesting their dinner is like pissing up a rope. Guess it all depends on the setup. The ones where the band is separated from the diners by a wall or more are the ones where you can do that. But even then those clubs can be tricky: you want to lure the diners from the other room over to where you are, and I've heard way too many bands fire their load into an empty room while the diners exit out the other door, showing no interest in the *usually too loud* band in the next room. Yup the dinner show crowd is a totally differnt deal. Our gigs start at 5;30 with the front guy doing solo acoutic during the dinner rush. its low energy mood type texas songwriter stuff. He breaks at a quarter to 7. the band goes on at 7pm and we fire off with a couple up temp songs with some harmony to let them know we are worth sticking around for ,, then start out with some easy stuff , get margarittaville out of the way , and slowing bring the show up to speed ,, then we move into the rock. Its typically a hour and a half set ,,, then break , hit another hour or so fitting the music to the crowd, break and then finish the evenging off with either new stuff or original stuff that gets requested. So we got em in the bar from 5;30 till at least 930 or 10,, and sometimes 1030. thats the goal. Its pretty much all couples and family or groups of couples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Man at first I thought your bizarre gig was gonna be like a gig with midget strippers came up on stage then started swallowing flaming dildos now that's bizarre gig, but I see it just another bizarre lame cover band thread. Hey you know Slayer makes more money in one or two concerts then a cover band does in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Why NOT put in more slow songs, and non-dancy songs, and intentionally drive the crowd to the bar for refills? Why do we want butts on the dance floor anyways? Just to show we can get chicks to dance? Because we've all "Been there, done that" which is why bands started TRYING to put more butts on the dance floor in the FIRST place. More butts on the dance floor=more people in the room=more drinks sold over the course of the night. People don't need a bad song to drink. Driving people off the dance floor to the bar is only one short step from driving them out the door. Nice to hear about the success of your last couple of gigs, but they were almost certainly more the exception to the rule. If you don't believe me, add those Rush tunes and get back to me in six months.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hey guys, we played last weekend, and it was the second gig in row that really is making me re-think almost everything- Two of our members are friends with a lot of musicians from other local bands, and they have come out in droves to support us. The interesting thing about musicians- they tend to not dance. So our last gig, almost nobody danced the entire night, got some 'okay' claps between songs, but mostly they all just stood there (or sat) and stared. I hate that, because musicians tend to judge, BUT.. the place was packed, in both cases. And when people aren't dancing, guess what they are doing? Binge drinking! This was the second time in a row we got a BONUS on top the agreed price, which makes me really think about song selections and goals- Why NOT put in more slow songs, and non-dancy songs, and intentionally drive the crowd to the bar for refills? Why do we want butts on the dance floor anyways? Just to show we can get chicks to dance? Yes it's FUN and seems to create a certain atmosphere, but it seems like the gigs where we had butts on the floor the whole night ended up with the bar complaining about a "meh" night. Not that I'm suggesting not playing any dance music, but I am pondering why I would put more than 2 dance songs together without padding 2 other songs to make sure everyone gets a chance to refill. It's almost a subliminal message to the patrons to sheep them to the bar at regular intervals... By 'other songs' I mean songs that are less dancy, like Rush or something that people would know and like, but not necessarily want to dance to- Of course all this train of thought is based on our usual crowd more than the musician crowd.. and the musician crowd doesn't seem to even like the dancy stuff anyways. You made some good points, then you had to go too far by suggesting Rush! I'm kidding, I love Rush. One of my Top 10 (maybe even Top 5) bands of all time. But I get what you are saying. Ultimately, it comes down to these questions. If the answer is yes to all of them, then you are successful and can probably get away with some non-dance songs once in a while (dunno about Rush being the non-dance option, though): Is the bar making money? Do people enjoy what you do? Are people sticking around? Do people just like to watch you instead of dance? Do people like to dance too when you play? Do people ask when you are returning so they can come see you again? For me, this is success and it's all I need to keep going. It validates my existence on the gigging musician scene and it gives me the strength to stick with music rather than retire from it like a lot of my ex-bandmates have done over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 ... Drunk people dance to anything I don't know what it is, but we consistantly get dancers (female) to Creep by Radiohead every time we play it! Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnelly428 Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Well in theory if the crowd is all musicians and are going to stay the entire night, then yeah you could do some more non-dance songs. The problem is, will the new songs make people LEAVE the bar and not just go get a drink? It's an interesting theory. I think the safe way to do it is put butts on the dance floor, more fun = more people = more drinking. BUT if your crowd just comes and watches then, yeah you could give that a shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mel Cooley Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Keep trying to fill the dance floor. You don't gotta encourage them via the microphone but keep playing the danceable music. In the D.C. area it's a long standing (no puns intended) custom of some sort for people to just stand there and watch bands. I know old timers from the '50s who said it went on even then. It doesn't mean they aren't appreciative of the type of music being played. As you observed, they're busy drinking while they watch. If you change up the content of music they may lose interest in coming to see you. Remember, the audience is there for an escape of their everyday problems. Keep offering them exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Since most of what we play are "fun" dance tunes, we usually kick in from the start and we don't let up. Some nights the dance floor is empty until 1/2 way through our first set. Some nights they are up from the start. It depends but we come out swinging anyway. We have also been designating fewer songs as "1st set only tunes" or "2nd set only tunes" Because we have cut out a lot of filler songs or songs that don't get as big a response anymore. I know its an ongoing cycle but right now things are pretty good song wise. Who knows next month though? We do have an outside restuarant gig in the Poconos we play every summer where we do change pace a bit. It's a 6pm-10pm gig so our first set is "calmer" than usual because people are having dinner. We pull out a few oldies/ classics/ standards at a lower volume and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 We have also been designating fewer songs as "1st set only tunes" or "2nd set only tunes" Yep. This is when I realized we were on the right track---when it became clear we could put almost any song in any spot of the set and it would still work. If a song is "only" going to work at the beginning of the night when nobody is dancing anyway, or "only" at the end of the night when they'll dance to anything...maybe that song isn't that great. We've got a handful of harder-rocking tunes we usually reserve for the end of the night, but I've put those in the first set at times and they still work great. The idea that you've got to play mellow stuff early and then "work into" the harder stuff is a myth. Unless you're playing a gig where people are still eating during the first set or some such, obviously. Rock 'em hard. Wear 'em out. Makes them thirsty. Thirsty crowds are a GOOD thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Yep. This is when I realized we were on the right track---when it became clear we could put almost any song in any spot of the set and it would still work. It took us awhile to get there let me tell ya! I look at it now like this: We can open and play a big crowd pleaser 1st song because we have bunch of other ones coming right after that one that work well too. Now with that said, some still do work better later in the show, it's usually the crowd sing-a-longs. Sometimes we play 'em "straight" and place them in the first set. Then other songs become the "sing-a-longs" that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 without going into the physiology of it the single most important thing you can do in playing a gig after 10pm is keep it upbeat. A lot of people go to bed around 10-12pm so they naturally get tired around that time unless something is keeping them excited. You need to be that something. If you're playing high energy music, your crowd might not dance but they'll stick around. If you're playing slower music they won't go to the bar, they'll go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MDLMUSIC Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Back in the 1970's I was playing with a Top-40 band at a club in Pennsylvania. After the first break, I went over to the bartender and told him that I didn't think we were going over very well, since almost nobody was dancing. "Oh, no," he told me. "They like you guys fine. If they didn't, they'd be throwing ashtrays at you." I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 without going into the physiology of it the single most important thing you can do in playing a gig after 10pm is keep it upbeat. A lot of people go to bed around 10-12pm so they naturally get tired around that time unless something is keeping them excited. You need to be that something. If you're playing high energy music, your crowd might not dance but they'll stick around. If you're playing slower music they won't go to the bar, they'll go home. Yea having to work against the bio clock is somthing you really need to be aware of. I have always kinda questioned the model of band playing from 10 - 1;30. Even 9 to 1am kinda stacks the deck. When the band doesnt start till 9 or 10 its pretty easy to jsut blow off going out. Now alot of people dont get around to going out to late too. Its prolly a demograhpics thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 Man at first I thought your bizarre gig was gonna be like a gig with midget strippers came up on stage then started swallowing flaming dildos now that's bizarre gig, but I see it just another bizarre lame cover band thread. Hey you know Slayer makes more money in one or two concerts then a cover band does in a year. jeez dude, are you really that miserable? Anyways folks, I meant bizarre simply because of being used to the concept of keeping butts on the floor was all I knew, and now when they aren't, we're MORE successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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