Members TIMKEYS Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Its heartening to see such confidence that our government is merely doing their job, following the correct procedures in enforcing a necessary law, and would not be likely to do anything WRONG. Nothing to see here, move along folks! That's your bias, that's cool, and I freely admit I have my own, which is: I have zero confidence in Eric Holder's DOJ, who on multiple (and recent) occasions IMO has shown extremely {censored}ty judgment on matters even more important than guitars! Couple that with an administration that pursues "green" to an extreme, economy be damned, and has never met a regulation it didn't like, and you have a recipe for trouble IMO. It's puzzling to see such cocksureness from both sides, both the Feds and Henry J, and also in the discussions here. Because all we're doing is speculating until some actual facts roll in. Thanks to Scafeets for his info but IMO it doesn't prove anything by itself. It's definitely not end-of-story.And this just in from the Dept. of Irony: In '09 our first lady gave a Gibson guitar, complete with Indian rosewood fingerboard, as a gift to Carla Bruno-Sarkozy http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/Michelle-Obama-French-406/:I have to admit that Michele would not have done that if she knew her husband had a vendetta against Gibson, unless she wanted to really piss Barack off. I agree ,, both side of this debate have speculated on whats going on. Its time we just wait and see. I dont think this deal is going to go away , so more info should be comming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Really Scafeets? Why interrupt our meaningful discussion with something as meaningless as facts and truth.... Happy to see we haven't lost our sense of humor on this one. Funny stuff.way2def & TIMKEYS: You're right: We haven't heard the whole story yet. Fish & Wildlife isn't saying anything. Eric Holder probably got a memo after the fact and could care less. Surmising that this is in some way an Obama initiative is aluminum-foil hat stuff. Until the actual facts are in, let's kleep in mind that 99% of what we're hearing is Henry J's story, which is probably 99% bull{censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Fair 'nuff, Scafeets. How about this: If Gibson is convicted of the crime of which they are accused, I'll ship a warm Pearl Light beer directly to your doorstep. If not, that Stella with the cracked neck will do just fine, thank you. But you must also include a Nashville number system chart for Giant Steps. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 On second thought, forget the guitar. I'll just take the chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Wouldn't you rather have a Stella Artois?And I think a numbers chart for Giant Steps could make a Nashville Cat's head explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Does the Artois have frets that light up to show you what to play? If so, I'll take it. RE Giant Steps, I'll also accept the original chart used by Floyd Cramer in his classic recording of the jazz classic. You might have to break it out of a museum or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Happy to see we haven't lost our sense of humor on this one. Funny stuff.way2def & TIMKEYS: You're right: We haven't heard the whole story yet. Fish & Wildlife isn't saying anything. Eric Holder probably got a memo after the fact and could care less. Surmising that this is in some way an Obama initiative is aluminum-foil hat stuff. Until the actual facts are in, let's kleep in mind that 99% of what we're hearing is Henry J's story, which is probably 99% bull{censored}. hard to tell. I based my theory on holders past performance. Going after boeing, going after S&P, Going after gibson. Not going after the black panthers , not enforcing laws obama doesnt like. Who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JailTime Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 The holder justice department has a hard on for gibson. tell us somthing new. Its political bull{censored}. Time will tell how this deal pans out for holder and the democrats. Hmmm... Politics at the DOJ? Never happened before! http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/19/us-usa-gonzales-idUSN1714926720070819 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Wouldn't you rather have a Stella Artois?And I think a numbers chart for Giant Steps could make a Nashville Cat's head explode. I've played giant steps with steel guys....you'd be surprised how many schooled musicians there are in town. 20-30 years ago, that wasn't the case. But it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted August 30, 2011 Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Hmmm... Politics at the DOJ? Never happened before! http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/19/us-usa-gonzales-idUSN1714926720070819 Gonzo let guys who that worked for him. Holder is going out in the pvt sector and raising hell with people who are viewed as the adm foes. whatever ,, time will tell how the gibson deal shakes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2011 I've played giant steps with steel guys....you'd be surprised how many schooled musicians there are in town. 20-30 years ago, that wasn't the case. But it is now. But did you/they chart it out with the Nashville number system? Seems like that would be a little hairy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted September 1, 2011 Members Share Posted September 1, 2011 I just read this in the General Forum. Thought I would share it here. The chronology as far as I can tell, goes like this: Lacey Act was amended in 2008, broadening the scope of the law covering plant items November 2009 - the first raid. Feds still have the pallets of wood, etc. from this raid. No official charges have been filed in connection with evidence taken in this raid. The wood in question here was the Madagascar ebony. The next day after this raid, HJ resigns his board position with the Rainforest Alliance. June 2011 - Feds file a civil case against Gibson. This is the first actual case being brought against anyone under the 2009 amendments of Lacey Act. Feds cited evidence for their lawsuit including various emails, their raid, etc. This incident is the source of Fed quotes about Gibson culpability. At some point, apparently the Federal prosecutor asked for a suspension of the civil case, because they want to focus on building a criminal case. I've had a hard time finding direct source confirmation of this bit of the history, but it is clear in any event that the civil case is in some sort of limbo. June 2011 - Gibson files a motion to get their inventory back and to have the civil case dropped. I don't know the exact technical legalese status of this motion, but if it had been granted, we'd surely know that by now. June 2011 - Feds in Dallas seize a shipment Indian ebony. This included the partially-finished fretboards. August 24, 2011 - raids take place in both Nashville and Memphis. So, as for the issue regarding actual charges - no criminal charges have been filed. The civil case filing does contain Federal assertions regarding evidence and alleged wrongdoing, but technically they are not "charges" yet in the usual sense of the word, "you are being charged with a crime in connection with etc etc". I don't want to get over my head in the legal procedures involved, but my amatuer understanding is that the civil case just got the Feds foot in the door, but what they are really doing is trying build a criminal case. So they are gathering all the evidence they can via these raids - which included computers and such in addition to the inventory. Once they feel good about their evidence, they will go for indictments which are the formal making of actual criminal charges. So that's what HJ means when he says Gibson hasn't been "charged" - he's correct. There are filed allegations in the civil case, but that is apparently in limbo. The heat is on in Nashville, I mean to tell ya....the wolf pack behind is right behind Gibson and gaining size and speed...scary. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ku'Yleh Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 Regardless of woods or where they came from, Gibson should be shut down due to their criminally bad QC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted September 2, 2011 Members Share Posted September 2, 2011 As I mentioned earlier in this thread Gibson makes their acoustic guitars where I live. Here is a link to an article posted in the local paper today. http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/crime/article_3d3d6d8a-d508-11e0-8053-001cc4c03286.html The guy in the picture I have known for 30 years and is a great bassplayer that also owns a sound company. He has worked for gibson for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 He's a worker-bee level guy speaking somewhat candidly about the exceptionally high-profile Federal legal case targeting the big $$$ multi-national corporation he works for...I wouldn't be surprised if he ceases to be employed by them soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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