Members Kramerguy Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 My cover-band is your typical local bar band. Most bars around here support 75-200 capacity, so nothing terribly huge. We do occasionally play a festival or large venue where a large PA is useful. Right now we have a 16ch board, 2 500w power amps, 21" sub (yeah it's freekin huge), two decent (passive) yamaha mains, and powered monitors (samsons). In the cabinet under the board we have 2 racks of compressor/limiters and 2 racks of EQ. We are currently struggling with board and power amp malfunctions, bad channels, etc.. and are looking to overhaul by replacing one amp and the board. anyways, that's all back-story. Our one disagreement (and we agreed to ask online lol) is over the compressor / limiters.. we can't agree whether or not the mics should go through them. Pretty much the argument is split down the middle. So whaddya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 For what and how are you using them now? I've never used compressor/limiters on mics. Are you mixing from stage or have a sound man? I can't see anything but trouble coming from trying to use compressors from on stage, although I'm sure others have had better results. I've had sound men occassionally want to put a compressor on the lead singers mic or some such. You would almost certainly want to compress each mic separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 Any processor is designed to produce a desired result or address a problem. Comps work well on vocals that have a bit more extreme high and low to them, helps even things out a bit. First question is why are you using them? what are you trying to achieve or fix? Just to use them because you've got them is not a good approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 We run a compress or in the kick and the bass. Nothing else. You may want to ask in the live sound forum, but I don't think you'll find much support for running vocals through a compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 Same here. I have a StudioLive 24, so there's compressors up the yingyang, but I usually just use them on the kick and bass, sometimes on keyboards, and the odd vocalist, but usually not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 Good mic technique and actual singing ability kinda eliminates the need to compress the vocal mics. The only thing I did was gate the kick, just ran everything else unaffected; indoors & out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SunRaFan Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 My cover-band is your typical local bar band. Most bars around here support 75-200 capacity, so nothing terribly huge. We do occasionally play a festival or large venue where a large PA is useful.Right now we have a 16ch board, 2 500w power amps, 21" sub (yeah it's freekin huge), two decent (passive) yamaha mains, and powered monitors (samsons). In the cabinet under the board we have 2 racks of compressor/limiters and 2 racks of EQ.We are currently struggling with board and power amp malfunctions, bad channels, etc.. and are looking to overhaul by replacing one amp and the board.anyways, that's all back-story.Our one disagreement (and we agreed to ask online lol) is over the compressor / limiters.. we can't agree whether or not the mics should go through them. Pretty much the argument is split down the middle.So whaddya think? One thing you have to consider is do you have anybody who has the skill/experience to operate them. Having compressor/limiters inserted on most channels can lead to some really bad sounding stuff if they aren't setup correctly. You also need to have some idea of what you are trying to accomplish with them. Kick and bass (if it's going direct and isn't already compressed) make sense. Vocals may make sense it you are doing a lot of modern rock where most vocals heavily compressed on the recordings or if the singer has bad mic control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted September 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 thanks guys, I too don't see the need for compressors on vocals. We don't have a sound guy and we don't know how to use them.. we're struggling with really poor sound from everything and I believe that the compressors are adding to the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 thanks guys, I too don't see the need for compressors on vocals. We don't have a sound guy and we don't know how to use them.. we're struggling with really poor sound from everything and I believe that the compressors are adding to the problems. Ya, get them out of there and try everything dry. Your gear might just work correctly after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 We use a limiter on our mains, on the whole mix, before it runs to the powered mains, but nothing else. We may start running my keys with a compressor because I tend to have some volume differences that while not so bad to me, are apparently bad for our drummer who is running sound and playing at the same time, so he can't always adjust me when I might be giving him too hot of a signal. It's important to know how to use one (I'm no expert, our drummer is the sound geek) and if you don't know what you are doing with one, then it's probably not doing you any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ya, get them out of there and try everything dry. Your gear might just work correctly after that. THIS^^ Unless used properly and well-monitored, compressors are a bad idea. They aren't really a set-em-and-forget-em device. We use gates on the drum mics so they aren't picking up a lot of ambient noise, but that's about it. Our sound guy has talked about wanting to use a compressor on our lead singers' mic because she tends to really belt out the rock stuff, but instead we've mostly just worked on her having better mic control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yamaha mixers are a great value imo. For the band I use an MG206C, 16 mic channels, and they have simple one-knob compressors on the first few channels if you feel the need. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-mg206c-mixer/630272000000000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 We use a limiter on our mains, on the whole mix, before it runs to the powered mains, but nothing else. We may start running my keys with a compressor because I tend to have some volume differences that while not so bad to me, are apparently bad for our drummer who is running sound and playing at the same time, so he can't always adjust me when I might be giving him too hot of a signal. It's important to know how to use one (I'm no expert, our drummer is the sound geek) and if you don't know what you are doing with one, then it's probably not doing you any good. Most decent powered speakers have limiting built in. Really no need to run one externally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 Most decent powered speakers have limiting built in. Really no need to run one externally. Actually compressing/limiting the whole mix is a bad idea for a lot of reasons that I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 Most decent powered speakers have limiting built in. Really no need to run one externally.same with power amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 Actually compressing/limiting the whole mix is a bad idea for a lot of reasons that I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 It's not uncommon to run some compression on kick, bass, and vocalists that are "screamers", and to gate toms that are ringing - this is normally done thru channel inserts at the board... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 Actually compressing/limiting the whole mix is a bad idea for a lot of reasons that I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 I took my compressor out of the rack and only use it for recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 Hmm, I'll talk to the drumemr about that. We use the limiter build into the driverack as extra protection for the speakers, a very slight amount. The speakers have limiters built in too, but we found that if we set the driverack limiter right we can get more out of the speakers before their limit lights start pumping. It's a very slight amount. No compression used at all on the mains. I understand the reason not to use it though, if one instrument hits a hard peak it affects the volume of all of the stuff going into the PA. The only time we've ever noticed it is from the singer, and we've considered throwing a compressor on her for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beyer160 Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 As a live sound guy for 15+ years, I put compressors on vocalists all the time. That doesn't mean you have to nuke them, but a 3-5dB reduction on peaks smooths things out and helps the quieter stuff from getting lost. I think a lot of the fear of comps comes from the fact that bad ones (like the Alesis 3630s everybody had in the '90s) sound awful, and that a lot of people go overboard and make them pump and breathe, which sounds awful. The old Symetrix compressors are great, easy to use, and you can get them for nothing on eBay. You need to spend a minute or two dialing a compressor in, but after that you don't need to keep fiddling with them, just keep an eye on the reduction meter now and again. To me, gates are far more likely to cause problems than compressors- I don't mind some spill and ring in tom mics, but I hate choppy drums. Hey, I came up in the '80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MattMayfield Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yamaha mixers are a great value imo. For the band I use an MG206C, 16 mic channels, and they have simple one-knob compressors on the first few channels if you feel the need. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-mg206c-mixer/630272000000000 I have a similar Yamaha mixer, but find that in most rooms the compressors just cause more feedback. I leave the yellow knobs all the way down or barely on at all. If I'm doing sound and not playing in the band, I often dial in compression with a high threshold and high ratio, fast attack and medium release (just to catch the loudest peaks), but I've found that compression is more trouble than it's worth when running sound from stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MattMayfield Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 You need to spend a minute or two dialing a compressor in, but after that you don't need to keep fiddling with them, just keep an eye on the reduction meter now and again. I agree when it's an experienced sound operator, not playing in the band, running the system. Someone in that situation can hear and diagnose problems instantly, and can quickly make the needed adjustment; for them, it feels like they can just "set and forget." Not so for a beginner, or a performer with other things to worry about. For a sound tech not fully familiar with compressors, and/or who is playing onstage, I think compressors are more often better left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 So whaddya think? Just get one of these, it will solve all of your problems: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted September 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 Just get one of these, it will solve all of your problems: haha you aren't the first person to recommend that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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