Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 20, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2012 Tube warmth accentuated.^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minn12 Posted March 20, 2012 Members Share Posted March 20, 2012 This is how I usually do it: I'm a sound guy who also plays guitar in a band that does festivals, etc. More than once I have had 'techs' try to mic my Deluxe Reverb (single 12") as if it were a double 12", and they placed the mic where the imaginary left-side speaker was. The mic was pointing at the wood baffle board. LOL. I've been in clubs where I saw the opposite happen- the 'tech' mic'd the amp cab dead-center. Only problem was, it was a double 12" and the mic was pointed in the center of the wood baffle board. FAIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 Other good cab mics FWIW Senn 421EV 308Beta 57Beyer m69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members musicmanmu Posted March 21, 2012 Members Share Posted March 21, 2012 I use a good ol' SM57 ... Aim the mic at 45 degrees to the cone, not the voice coil, of the speaker. This is what I do. Put a square of gaff tape on the spot on one of my cabs as to make it easy for myself and soundguys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zon5string Posted March 22, 2012 Members Share Posted March 22, 2012 This is how I usually do it: Finally! I was just about to add my once-and-for-all, number-one, never-fail tip: DON'T MIC THE AMP! MIC THE SPEAKER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 I'll use this thread to make a question:In small pubs do you pan the miced guitar sound to be louder on the PA speaker farther way from the guitar amp?Some people say that if you just use center pan on the PA the physical position of the guitar amp will create a natural pan that is nice and natural...Some people say that if you balance that with the pan on the PA so that the guitar sounds the closest to center as possible, the guitar sound will be more evenly distributed through the room...thoughts? I used to pan the guitar players to the opposite side of the stage/PA so as to blend the reinforced sound with their stage volume. I don't want to sound cocky, but it takes a lot of careful listening to get it right (and you can't just boost the volume in the PA without considering the panning) - I used to get it very right. Walking around the venue, it was hard to put the guitar sounds on one side or the other (without it all just coming from the FOH).. I don't recommend it unless you have a long time for sound-check, though. Some gigs it was just easier to say F it and run everything in the middle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members antonioctd Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 I used to pan the guitar players to the opposite side of the stage/PA so as to blend the reinforced sound with their stage volume. I don't want to sound cocky, but it takes a lot of careful listening to get it right (and you can't just boost the volume in the PA without considering the panning) - I used to get it very right. Walking around the venue, it was hard to put the guitar sounds on one side or the other (without it all just coming from the FOH).. I don't recommend it unless you have a long time for sound-check, though. Some gigs it was just easier to say F it and run everything in the middle... thanks! Exactly the type of knowledge I was hoping someone would share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 thanks! Exactly the type of knowledge I was hoping someone would share It isn't very realistic. The center of the room will get stereo, the rest will get one player much louder than the other. There is a reason people run dual mono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 It isn't very realistic. The center of the room will get stereo, the rest will get one player much louder than the other. There is a reason people run dual mono.I don't think you understand what BassRed was saying - I do it that way too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 It isn't very realistic. The center of the room will get stereo, the rest will get one player much louder than the other. There is a reason people run dual mono. Not really. If my guitar amp is on the left side of the stage, I pan it right (at about 2-3 o'clock, depending on the room) through the mains so that the amp is heard the same on both sides of the room. The more heavily weighted main compensates for the lack of stage volume on that side. I do the same with bass, panning it to the opposite side of where the amp is. It allows more even distribution, a wider spread of sound, and results in having to have a lower volume overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 My mistake, I thought they were talking about panning guitar players left/right to produce a stereo image. We keep stage volume way down. (using modelers most recently) stage wash is now minimal. Before that, guitars didn't make it to FOH often as they were too loud already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 My mistake, I thought they were talking about panning guitar players left/right to produce a stereo image. We keep stage volume way down. (using modelers most recently) stage wash is now minimal. Before that, guitars didn't make it to FOH often as they were too loud already. Yeah, I was dealing more with an adequate stage volume (but not too loud, thank God, my guys were fairly reasonable) and panning the Stage Left guitar sound more into the Stage Right FOH and spend some time dialing the pan (between 60% and 75% - ish usually) to make sure the sound of that guitar player was even throughout the audience area. I would then do the same for the Stage Right guitar player. Anywhere in the venue (except maybe right in front of the players at the stage edge) was a pleasant blend of the band. I was the bass player, I ran Mono. Kick and snare were mono and only in FOH if needed (kick needed the subs, snare didn't usually need too much help in the small venues we played). When we miked up the whole kit for bigger venues, I would pan the toms and over-heads. Again, It wasn't 'easy', but I think it was worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted March 24, 2012 Members Share Posted March 24, 2012 Yeah, I was dealing more with an adequate stage volume (but not too loud, thank God, my guys were fairly reasonable) and panning the Stage Left guitar sound more into the Stage Right FOH and spend some time dialing the pan (between 60% and 75% - ish usually) to make sure the sound of that guitar player was even throughout the audience area. I would then do the same for the Stage Right guitar player. Anywhere in the venue (except maybe right in front of the players at the stage edge) was a pleasant blend of the band. I was the bass player, I ran Mono. Kick and snare were mono and only in FOH if needed (kick needed the subs, snare didn't usually need too much help in the small venues we played). When we miked up the whole kit for bigger venues, I would pan the toms and over-heads.Again, It wasn't 'easy', but I think it was worth it! I went straight from the "holy crap I wish he would turn down" straight to the quiet stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vermoulian Posted March 27, 2012 Members Share Posted March 27, 2012 I also have a couple 57s and an e609. It should be noted that those mics do not sound the same. The e609 has more pronounced upper mids, and the 57 has more pronounced "mid" mids. I don't know which one is flatter---probably neither of them, actually. They are both good sounding mics, it's just a difference in flavor rather than one being good and one being bad. Just a few days ago I got an EV N/D468 as part of a trade. It's marketed as a good electric guitar mic; I'm keen to see how it compares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted March 28, 2012 Members Share Posted March 28, 2012 Pretty cool thread. I've never been miked up. I am curious, my amp has a line out...is there a big tonal difference between line out and being miked up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 29, 2012 Members Share Posted March 29, 2012 Pretty cool thread. I've never been miked up. I am curious, my amp has a line out...is there a big tonal difference between line out and being miked up? Well, you don't get the speaker sound, so it can be a little more bright sounding...but if you EQ the channel you can get a pretty good sound. I use the line out sometimes, and on gigs that require a quiet stage volume, I sometime unplug the speaker and use the line out on the am through the PA and put a little back through the monitors. This allows me to drive the amp as hard as I want and control the output volume after the fact with the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 29, 2012 Members Share Posted March 29, 2012 I should add that I use a tube amp for this. I'm not sure what a line out would sound like on a SS amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted March 29, 2012 Members Share Posted March 29, 2012 I should add that I use a tube amp for this. I'm not sure what a line out would sound like on a SS amp.depends on the amp. The good line-outs, whether tube or SS, have speaker emulation applied to the signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted March 29, 2012 Members Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well, you don't get the speaker sound, so it can be a little more bright sounding...but if you EQ the channel you can get a pretty good sound. I use the line out sometimes, and on gigs that require a quiet stage volume, I sometime unplug the speaker and use the line out on the am through the PA and put a little back through the monitors. This allows me to drive the amp as hard as I want and control the output volume after the fact with the PA. Your solution means you can pretty much show up with any wattage amp you want, whatever brings the tone, and you won't be too loud. I'm impressed...I tried the low watt route, but found myself unable to keep up with a louder rock set. I also tried saturating a larger amp, and using the volume pedal backed off to control the volume, convincing me that volume pedals suck tone somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 29, 2012 Members Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_page_hotplate.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted March 29, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2012 Pretty cool thread. I've never been miked up. I am curious, my amp has a line out...is there a big tonal difference between line out and being miked up? Try it. On a tube amp, it's likely to be hugely different, and not in a good way. As for stereo vs mono PA, stereo sounds so much better. I do tend to run what the Live Sound forum folks call "dual mono," which means panning everything more or less center except for stereo returns from effects. For guitars specifically, I think adding some guitar opposite its position on the stage with a little delay applied fattens up the guitar sound wonderfully - if that's what you want. Depending on the shape of the club, stereo (panning) can work well too. In Austin, most of the 6th street clubs are narrow hallways and stereo works just fine for those. Even halls that are wider than they're long can support a little panning as long as you don't go wild with it. But effects? Stereo is the way to go. Just sounds hugely better in any situation. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted March 29, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_page_hotplate.html I wouldn't recommend a Hot Plate to my worst enemy! Anything more than the tiniest cut and your sound changes quite a bit. Much better (IMO) to carry a smaller amp that gets its sweet spot at the lower volume you need. Let the PA do the heavy lifting. BTW, everyone feel free to disagree. And, if you disagree strongly enough, I have a Hot Plate for sale, like new, cheap. Terry D. P.S. The best sounding attenuator I've ever heard (and still have) is the Motherload, but it's pricey as hell. I keep it in my studio, just use small amps live. I wasted a lot of money trying all manner of attenuators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sillypeoples Posted March 29, 2012 Members Share Posted March 29, 2012 Try it. On a tube amp, it's likely to be hugely different, and not in a good way.. Well there is something to be said about 'give me the choice'. If I recorded a part that came through miked close, miked far, miked center, offset, line out with speaker emulation, without, XLR, or the case of some cabs, line out of the cab...at least I can decide what sounds best. The only problem is that on stage I guess it's up to the sound guy to decide what sounds right, in studio we get playback. A friend of mine is a big believer in picking off of the speaker cables. To further complicate this Steve Winwood was playing with Clapton using his Fender SS amp, sounded great, and he mentioned in an interview that any tube advantage is lost through the PA. Check out Crossroads Dr. Mr. Fantasy for yourself to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 29, 2012 Members Share Posted March 29, 2012 Try it. On a tube amp, it's likely to be hugely different, and not in a good way.Terry D. Again, it depends on how you set the amp and then EQ it in the mix. You can't just line out with the same settings you use when you mic the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted March 29, 2012 Members Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well there is something to be said about 'give me the choice'. If I recorded a part that came through miked close, miked far, miked center, offset, line out with speaker emulation, without, XLR, or the case of some cabs, line out of the cab...at least I can decide what sounds best. The only problem is that on stage I guess it's up to the sound guy to decide what sounds right, in studio we get playback. A friend of mine is a big believer in picking off of the speaker cables. To further complicate this Steve Winwood was playing with Clapton using his Fender SS amp, sounded great, and he mentioned in an interview that any tube advantage is lost through the PA. Check out Crossroads Dr. Mr. Fantasy for yourself to decide.that makes no sense. The sound system is supposed to be neutral in tone. It should just accurately make the original tone creation louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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