Members EightString Posted July 28, 2012 Members Share Posted July 28, 2012 My favorite part of lurking in BSWTB is watching Lee morph into the Hulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 28, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 28, 2012 My favorite part of lurking in BSWTB is watching Lee morph into the Hulk. A sweet and caring Hulk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 28, 2012 Members Share Posted July 28, 2012 A sweet and caring Hulk... Hulk smash .... but only for your own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted July 29, 2012 Members Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well....maybe it's better if someone tabs it out for us? Or does a vid? It seems necessary. It's a really HARD song! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Roberts Posted July 29, 2012 Members Share Posted July 29, 2012 No, they play to the changes. Because you can play the solo in G does not make it in G. The tonality is clearly in D. Are you referring to the keyboard parts or the guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 29, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2012 Are you referring to the keyboard parts or the guitar? I'm referring to how any of the soloists, the vocalist/writer, bassist, anyybody playing the tune perceives the tonality of the song. I bVII IV D C... G But the solo, one of them, he plays in G. Or... D mixolydian. This tune in particular is an odd one, and a cool one as far as key goes. The guitarist leans it toward the key of G. The vocal melody is clearly D mixolydian. And I believe it was Ed King, was one hip mofo. So yeah, the guitarist pulls it toward G, but the reason it sounds so hip is because the vocal melody is D mix. If the tune were in G, that vocal melody would be very different and have resolutions to G. But that's not going on in the vocal melody. King had a very hip way of making the tune sound fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 29, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hmmmm... getting in deeper here. But he's playing an E pentatonic. This is letting me go back to that song fresh and free from its overplayed stigma. Wow, this is very cool what they were doing. So, for a means of describing it, Key of G, tonal center of D mixolydian. Or... one sharp, D mixolydian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Roberts Posted July 29, 2012 Members Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hmmmm... getting in deeper here. But he's playing an E pentatonic. This is letting me go back to that song fresh and free from its overplayed stigma. Wow, this is very cool what they were doing. So, for a means of describing it, Key of G, tonal center of D mixolydian. Or... one sharp, D mixolydian. E pentatonic minor? Same notes as G pentatonic major? The 1-2-4-5-6 of D Mixolydian? The arguement over what key SHA is in has been going on for a long time. Ed King always said he felt like it was in G and so so he played the solos in G Pentatonic Major. He treated the song like a V-IV-I progression. But many people feel that the song wants to resolve to D, which is equally valid. That would make it a D Mixolydian chord progression. Even if you hear it that way you can still use the same G Major Pentatonic boxes and scales Ed did to play the solos because they're made up of the 1-2-4-5-6 of the D Mixolydian mode - which is made of the same notes as the 1-2-3-5-6 of the G major diatonic scale. Occasionally he even throws in a passing tone or a chord tone, but it's almost all notes from G Pentatonic Major. Neither is right or wrong, they're just two descriptions of how the song is played. Most songs are much clearer as to what key they're in so there's not a lot of differing opinions but for some reason this one always comes back around. I've taught guitar for a long time and this eventually comes up, whether I use it as an example or a student runs into it and brings it in wanting to know what key it's in. I've seen it discussed in all the major guitar magazines at least once, sometimes it seems like it gets recycled every 4-5 years. I guess magazines are always getting new readers. Anyway, it's an interesting tune to dissect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 30, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2012 E pentatonic minor? Same notes as G pentatonic major? The 1-2-4-5-6 of D Mixolydian? The arguement over what key SHA is in has been going on for a long time. Ed King always said he felt like it was in G and so so he played the solos in G Pentatonic Major. He treated the song like a V-IV-I progression. But many people feel that the song wants to resolve to D, which is equally valid. That would make it a D Mixolydian chord progression. Even if you hear it that way you can still use the same G Major Pentatonic boxes and scales Ed did to play the solos because they're made up of the 1-2-4-5-6 of the D Mixolydian mode - which is made of the same notes as the 1-2-3-5-6 of the G major diatonic scale. Occasionally he even throws in a passing tone or a chord tone, but it's almost all notes from G Pentatonic Major. Neither is right or wrong, they're just two descriptions of how the song is played. Most songs are much clearer as to what key they're in so there's not a lot of differing opinions but for some reason this one always comes back around. I've taught guitar for a long time and this eventually comes up, whether I use it as an example or a student runs into it and brings it in wanting to know what key it's in. I've seen it discussed in all the major guitar magazines at least once, sometimes it seems like it gets recycled every 4-5 years. I guess magazines are always getting new readers. Anyway, it's an interesting tune to dissect. Yeah, I admit... I've never given it thought. I felt it was obvious. Then I listened analytically for the 1st time and... wait... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 Producer Al Kooper believes the song is in D. Ed King admitted in an interview that his solo in G was not "musically correct", but the band convinced Kooper to keep it anyway because it came to King in a dream. If the producer says the song is in D and even the guy who played the G-based solo effectively admits it's in D, I think it's probably in D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 30, 2012 Members Share Posted July 30, 2012 And I believe it was Ed King, was one hip mofo. You think he understood all the theory behind what he was playing? Or was just playing what he thought sounded good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 30, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2012 So now you think it's in "G" after before being so adamant about "D"? What changed for you? Yep, I agree it's tension created by the song sounding "G" but the vocal sounding "D" that is one of things that makes it aurally interesting. I like dissecting pop tunes and usually there's always one or little things like this in writing, arrangement or production that are--to my ear anyway--the reason why the song works and is a hit. It these little moments that are what it's all about. You think he understood all the theory behind what he was playing? Or was just playing what he thought sounded good? I said: So, for a means of describing it, Key of G, tonal center of D mixolydian. Or... one sharp, D mixolydian. The term "Key of D" is short hand for D tonal center. That's why I take exception to saying the song is in G. It does, however have a KEY SIGNATURE if 1 sharp. Which is not necessarily the key of G. Might be E minor, or... D Mixolydian. See what I mean? Did Ed King know all that? Very likely not. But it was clear that it sounded great and now I know why. He certainly knew it sounded great too. And Al Cooper. Is the song's tonal center G? Absolutely not. The solo is though and that's very cool. But hey, look above and you;ll see a clearly admitted this one got me. It's a funny one. Evidently a lot of people think so. I know nothing about the controversy regrading its key. I think its totally fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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