I Always took my breaks. Lot's of Springsteen's on this forum!

[Howie22]

Playing with the duo over the weekend and we played a long first set. At one point I looked over at my duo partner and call for the song that I ALWAYS start the second set with. His face goes into panic mode and says "Are we not gonna take a break?!?!"

 

So, we took a break. Apparently, no amount of "Bar Rock Star Awesomeness" can win against a full bladder. We took the remaining time on break to talk to patrons, hand out business cards, etc.

[BlueStrat]

 

You post got me thinking..It really has gotten so bad compared to when we started gigging eh? I started around 87 and I know you were doing the road thing before that...How bad does it have to get before everyone says, screw it..It's not worth it anymore, I'll stay home?

 

 

Well, I can't speak to everywhere, but it really has gotten that bad here. Back in the early 80s, the drinking age in Idaho was 19 and 21 in Washington. Coeur d Alene is 30 miles from Spokane, so from Wednesday thru Saturday clubs were packed to the rafters. I worked as a doorman between gigs and we'd have lineups to get into clubs that went clear out into the parking lot. But then the law changed to 21 everywhere, and suddenly there was no need for folks from a town of 400k to come to a town of 20k to party, and it all dried up. Within two years, the full time clubs disappeared, and most placed went to weekends. Suddenly all these full timers had to get day jobs and compete with hobbyists for gigs, and the hobby market was already low here. Too many bands, shrinking number of venues. Pay stayed relatively steady, but didn't keep up with inflation. Three years ago, clubs were paying the same $400 a night for our band they paid us in 1983. Starting 3 years ago, they started dropping their pay to $300 a night. Some are offering 200 a night and 125 on weeknights. That's for a BAND. More venues have closed or dropped live music. I am shutting my band down because I can't book it anywhere over the winter. Or I could, if I want to pay everyone 60 dollars a night. But I'm not doing promo, printing posters, taking off work early and hauling my PA out for 60 bucks a night. About all that exist around here now are solos, duos and trios. I need 5 guys to get the sound I want for the songs I write with the band. It's over.

 

There is lots of solo stuff, but all the guys who can't get gigs with bands that pay anything have figured it out and are going solo too, so once again the supply far exceeds the demand. So guys are playing wine bar gigs for as little as 40 or 50 bucks for three hours- and that's on a weekend!. I feel lucky to get 75 +tips + dinner for a weeknight. There are some places that will pay $200 a night on weekends, but you have to really hustle to get them and you have to play a lot of stuff that for me is cheesy. I'm working to create new venues to showcase singer/songwriters and I have one concert series up and running, but I'm looking to expand it. Baby steps, I suppose.

 

I feel fortunate to have come up in the time I did- when you could make a living 6 nights a week with a guitar and make more money than some guys in construction. But it's all finished, and doubt it will ever come back.

 

I know that in some parts of the country it is much better than here, and I hope it stays that way. For instance, I see guys here on the forum making 250-300 a night. That would never happen here, anywhere, unless it was a private party, and even then maybe not. Over at BSWTB, some midwest and northeast cover bands are pulling in 2-3 k a night. We don't even get that for festival or concert gigs here. We're darn lucky to get 1500 for playing in front of 5000 people. Bars pay 500 a night tops, some 400 and now 300 is the new norm.

[BlueStrat]

 

Playing with the duo over the weekend and we played a long first set. At one point I looked over at my duo partner and call for the song that I ALWAYS start the second set with. His face goes into panic mode and says "Are we not gonna take a break?!?!" So, we took a break. Apparently, no amount of "Bar Rock Star Awesomeness" can win against a full bladder. We took the remaining time on break to talk to patrons, hand out business cards, etc.

 

 

I think venue is everything. In restaurants, especially early, people don't want to be interrupted during dinner with people crashing their table to schmooze. Maybe later in the evening after dinner. A bar or lounge is a different matter.

[Potts]

Wow..I feel bad for musicians in some parts of the country. It's getting a little meager here in Western New York but there's always bars that will pay an "average" band $300-$500. The bands that draw well are making well over $1000-$1500 a night. The think that bugs me, and I've said it before, is that all these rock Gods see that playing acoustic is lucrative and they're creeping into our (I use that term loosely) gigs. And many times these people are amazing at what they do with their band but really need to stay home with the acoustic.

 

I've said it before- Ive been doing the acoustic thing almost my entire life and I've worked on it to get a solid show together. I remember friends "picking" on me for going the acoustic route. Now they all go buy cheap Ibenez acoustics, bang out barre chords and attempt to sing their rock setlist on their off nights. It bugs me more than just a little.

[Notes_Norton]

Speaking of age, I just turned 66 last month.

I guess I grew up in the golden age of rock bands. When I was younger, every town in the world no matter how small had bands, every Holiday Inn and hotel of any stature had one, independent clubs all over, the rock bands played 6 nights a week and the jazz band played Monday nights.

We toured the country, a month here, a month there, girls in every stop, fun times with my band-mates, pulling a U-Haul type trailer full of gear everywhere. We almost made it famous, warmed up for headliners, some while their songs were number 1 on Billboard - including: Four Seasons, Association, Kingsmen, Freddie Cannon, Coasters, Shirelles, Little Anthony, and eventually many of the Motown acts (Even got to jam with Eric Burdon of the Animals in local clubs after our gig was over). We were going to be Motown's first promoted white band, until the negotiations between the lawyers our manager hired and Motown's lawyers broke down over money. Berry Gordy's second choice, The Sunliners eventually got the gig and became Rare Earth. I don't know what they were paid, but if it was for less than Motown's final offer for us, it was almost nothing - especially after they paid back the inflated recording and promotional costs.

The music business has really changed, and I feel sorry for the young musicians.

And I blame Television.

Back then there were only 3 channels. The picture was grainy, the colors bad (and many shows still black & white), and the sound tinny. In those rare instances when something good was on it was hardly satisfying. One little 3" midrange speaker on a 10 watt amplifier and an audio bandwidth on the TV signal not even up to the frequencies the speaker could reproduce. In other words, if you wanted good musical entertainment, you had to go out.

Now we have a few hundred channels, TIVO, High Def TV, 7.1 surround sound, and a Cable or Satellite subscription that can easily run a couple of hundred dollars per month. There goes the entertainment budget for the salesman in your living room.

Plus TV is a drug and is very addictive. Most people are simply addicted to it. (This could be the subject of a new thread - how do we get them to "Just say 'no' to TV).

The result is most of the time people stay home to be entertained when they used to always go out for entertainment.

When they do go out, DJs are another competition. Now many of the young generation would rather listen to DJ music, and many of today's songs can not be reproduced by a live band - too much of it is dependent on the recording studio.

So TV never takes a break, DJs don't take breaks, so why should we let them have that advantage?

I'm not retired, and I don't plan on it. I love what I do, and I'd rather play than take a break. I'm having fun with the audience, we are playing a game together, and I'm having too much fun to quit.

Insights and incites by Notes

[BlueStrat]

And I blame Television.

Yes, but I'd expand it to blaming media in general. Everyone has a PC/iphone/ipad, there are multi=theater cineplexes around now that we didn't have in 1980, there are video games, etc. It's both funny and sad- I play mainly restaurant gigs and I often see young couples sit down for dinner and spend the entire evening staring at their phones, texting or checking facebook, and completely ignoring each other.

[Vito Corleone]

Yes, but I'd expand it to blaming media in general.

 

 

Technology. In many ways, live music is the horse-and-carriage competing against automobiles and jet planes. Sure, there's still a market for making money with your horse-and-carriage tooling around Central Park, but you've really got to hone your presentation and niche your market. No, it will never go back to being 1983 again.

 

I think there will certainly be a market for live entertainment featuring live human beings for many years to come, however. But how much of that will look like the 1950's model of 4 guys with guitars and drums singing into microphones? As good as that model can still be, it's now in many ways the equivilant of a black-and-white TV broadcast competing against a 3D movie in 7.1 surround.

 

Not that I (and many other people) don't love me a good Twilight Zone or I Love Lucy rerun. But new content delivered in that format? Probably tough to find a market for it. Even tough to find much of a market for the old content these days.

[Bob Dey]

 

Yes, but I'd expand it to blaming media in general.

 

 

It was about 20 years ago that I observed that too many other forms of entertainment were taking away from live bands. That's when karaoke came out, personal computers had games, and within a couple of years the internet. VCRs and male strippers were also current trends. Technology has added things for solo musicians, but has also taken away. The same can be said for most occupations at this point. We have many choices of what to do on the weekend now. Lots of things to do at home and lots of things to do going out. Sports bars with multiple TV screens seem to be the antithesis of live music, and now we have keno too.

 

Norton is right on. The golden age of playing in a band goes back to the early sixties. By the '70s it was still going strong, but competition increased. More musicians, more bands. Around '85 MADD had an affect on how much people drank, and out of fear, many patrons left the bar after 2 drinks.

 

So now we've come to not taking breaks?

[Voltan]

i broke a string...

[EightString]

I skip breaks because I genuinely love playing and singing, and for that reason, I have secretly always hated breaks since I was a kid playing the bars back in 1980. Now that I'm a solo, I can do whatever the hell I want in pursuit of the ideal intersection of my enjoyment and audience entertainment.

 

So I really don't give a {censored} whether other musicians do or don't take breaks, or what a bunch of strangers on the internet think of my scheduling practices.

[EightString]

i broke a string...

 

$50 penalty!

 

/JAMESBROWN

[Voltan]

wut? you has to schedule your practices?

[Potts]

I skip breaks because I genuinely love playing and singing, and for that reason, I have secretly always hated breaks since I was a kid playing the bars back in 1980. Now that I'm a solo, I can do whatever the hell I want in pursuit of the ideal intersection of my enjoyment and audience entertainment. So I really don't give a {censored} whether other musicians do or don't take breaks, or what a bunch of strangers on the internet think of my scheduling practices.

 

awesome... My sentiments exactly!

[Bob Dey]

awesome... My sentiments exactly!

 

Mine too! That's why I'm gonna keep taking breaks. In fact, maybe I'll start doing 20 minutes on and 40 minutes break in the parking lot with the doobie brothers.

[Howie22]

I skip breaks because I genuinely love playing and singing

I love beer. It's one of my favorite things in the world. Not pounding down watered down yellow lager, but true appreciation of all kinds of beer styles and breweries. For me, beer appreciation is a hobby. Like you, I enjoy playing and singing. However, I like drinking beer even more. As I tell my wife, it's no accident that I have a side job that allows me to drink beer while I work. Being able to drink beer WHILE I play and sing is just about the best thing ever. I don't drink a lot while I play, but I do enjoy it.

Drinking beer makes me have to go to the bathroom. In order to do that, I have to take a break.

I drink beer, therefore I take breaks!!

Generally speaking, though. I agree with what you "Springsteen" guys are saying. A lot of times, I only take one break during a 3 hour gig. I just don't think I could frequently do the whole 3 hour set. My out of shape body couldn't do it.

A lot of times, I'll use the break to intentionally change the flow of the gig. If I feel like a set isn't going well, sometimes I mentally need that break to get my head right and come back and give a better performance.

[John Bartus]

It depends on the night and the venue. If it's a restaurant that wants to turn tables, it's 40 on and 20 off. If the people are there and digging it and I've got a crowd going, I stay and play. Even though I'm part of the over 50 crowd now, I still have the bladder capacity of a small Third World nation. That really helps when a set turns into a marathon!

 

[fingerpicker]

This thread is almost as ridiculous as not taking a break and bragging about it. If i hear one more "I been doing this so long" statement im going to puke, because some of you do not play 5-7 gigs a week,every week.

 

Edit: I just came home from playing a tuesday late night gig. (its 2:13am as I am writing this) and if i did not work the crowd during my break i would not have a weekly tuesday gig.

 

How many of you don't shmoooze, and have a tuesday night bar gig every week that pays well???

[Potts]

 

This thread is almost as ridiculous as not taking a break and bragging about it. If i hear one more "I been doing this so long" statement im going to puke, because some of you do not play 5-7 gigs a week,every week. Edit: I just came home from playing a tuesday late night gig. (its 2:13am as I am writing this) and if i did not work the crowd during my break i would not have a weekly tuesday gig. How many of you don't shmoooze, and have a tuesday night bar gig every week that pays well???

 

 

I don't think those that are saying they don't take breaks are bragging about it. And to answer your question about meeting and greeting...I get how important it is ,but it's not the only way to approach playing full time and connecting with people. Just like the guys that have the chicks dancing for them from the other thread, many of us have our own thing. People think it's awesome that I crank through a {censored}load of tunes with almost no downtime between songs, take requests, and play for ridiculously long amounts of time- that's my thing.

[Voltan]

if i was going to brag about something i'd tell you how long my...

 

 

memory is...

[SLScott86]

My band has played at an insufficient frequency for a few years, and when we do longer engagements than an hour we normally take a break. But that's because we're too damn captivating for people to go buy drinks otherwise. Or something.

[Potts]

 

My band has played at an insufficient frequency for a few years, and when we do longer engagements than an hour we normally take a break. But that's because we're too damn captivating for people to go buy drinks otherwise. Or something.

 

 

Post of the day... It's early though.

[BlueStrat]

 

This thread is almost as ridiculous as not taking a break and bragging about it. If i hear one more "I been doing this so long" statement im going to puke, because some of you do not play 5-7 gigs a week,every week. Edit: I just came home from playing a tuesday late night gig. (its 2:13am as I am writing this) and if i did not work the crowd during my break i would not have a weekly tuesday gig. How many of you don't shmoooze, and have a tuesday night bar gig every week that pays well???

 

 

 

Jeez, dude, take a {censored} and relax. I said it before, and I'll say it again: VENUE IS EVERYTHING. I play many, many weeknights a month. Almost all of my solo gigs are in restaurants and fine dining ones at that. Others are street fairs whene you play straight through for 2 hours, or farmer's markets, or galleries. There is no "schmoozing" at these places. People are paying 200 dollars for a meal to enjoy the company of their party, not to have the guy who's playing in the corner come up to their table and interrupt them to sell himself. I'm part of their dining experience. It's a role I understand, accept and in fact enjoy. They listen with one ear and they tip me when they leave, most of the time. Later in the evening, when the dinner hour is over, I might interact with people from the stage, where the performance becomes a mini-concert. But in those environments, taking breaks costs me money. It's not about bragging, it's about earning. Over the years I've noticed when I'm not playing and people leave, they bypass the tip jar. As long as I'm playing,they are more likely to tip. It's not ego that drives my decision, it's business. Not all gigs are like yours.

[cephus]

 

Not all gigs are like yours.

 

 

I think more gigs are like his than yours. No offense. I don't play supper clubs. I play mostly beer joints. I thought that was understood.

[Potts]

 

I think more gigs are like his than yours. No offense. I don't play supper clubs. I play mostly beer joints. I thought that was understood.

 

 

Many of Strats points are still consistent with bars or beer joints though.

[EightString]

So are we going to have "breaks/no breaks" wars now, same as music stands and backing tracks?