Kick & pound in chest feel

[ned911]

Trying to dial in that thump the check feel from the kick drum. Drum is tunes well and currently using the newer Audiopile kick mic. Subs are 2 SRX718S powered by XTI4000. Not using any processing other than a little channel strip EQ and JBL's EQ curve for the Drive Rack 260 that is programmed into the XTI. Board is a Mixwiz3.

 

Is this something that is mainly derived from compression or EQ or mic or combo of all 3.

 

Wish they would fix the search as I know this has been covered more than once.

[smitty0069]

I don't necesarily think comp. is critical.....if needed at all honestly.

Inserting a gate is much more likely to give you that quick punch you are looking for.

Fairly quick attack & release w/ a fair amount of gain reduction will make that gate open & shut quickly which will probably give you the punch you're looking for.

 

I'm not familiar w/ the Audiopile mic or any other aspect of your setup at all so it's hard to give you advice on eq'ing, but I'll give you an idea of what I do w/ say a B-52.

 

With the low cut bypassed I MIGHT give a slight boost around 80hz which is the lo freq. band on your A&H.

Having said that.....don't be afraid to engage the low cut on the kick & add a good bit more low eq boost.Sometimes this will give it a mucher nicer punchier tone that still has plenty of bottom.

Then I might look for a low-mid cut on one of your sweeps.I'd look for this in the 250-400hz. range as a starting point.

After that I look to add some hi end freq. on your other sweep to get the amount of click I want.I'd look for this in the 4-5khz range.

I've even found myself adding some the 12khz. band on the A&H to get what I wanted for click.

 

As w/ anything these are just some starting point suggestions.Listen w/ your ears & let them tell you what works for the situation.

 

Good luck,

Smitty

[agedhorse]

Combination of all factors plus sub placement and having enough subs for the area to be covered. How are you powering this... stereo is just about rigt but you could have used a little more power with some caution. Bridge mono is too much power IMO and carries with it risks.

 

Be sure there's not stupid processing engaged on the XTI amp... you may find that the "factory" high pass filter is set kind of high in order to protect the speaker against folks running stupid amounts of power like the ads suggest. I have encountered this on several products, but if you power it more reasonably, this requirement goes away and the box's LF performance can improve. It's a necessary tradeoff the engineers have fo make in oreder to keep the product from failing in the field. What is the HPF setting the factory recommends? The HPF may be different in the XTI if you select the operating mode to be bridge mono. I also wonder about the configuration of the limiter in bridge mode. I suspect it's more agressive to keep the driver's parts contained within the cabinet.

 

Additionally, it may not be the LF extension that you are missing... but on a system with really solid low extension the bottom gives a solid feel the reinforces everything else. It's more of a whollap and a deep thud rather than a smack in the chest. You might look to se if a little channel eq up higher might help, plus cutting just a little low mid in the 125-200Hz range.

[Phil Clark]

If you have a graphic EQ on the mains, try bumping 60 and 80 Hz as well as gating the kick. And definitely give the kick channel a bit of a boost in the low end and about a 3k boost to get the beater impact. Maybe even cut a bit of 240 hz.

 

And if you can set up Aux Fed Subs, that will also help get that thump.

[Craig Vecchione]

While the SRX718 is definitely capable of what you want, be very careful not to expect chest thump very far from the subs. It's easy to find the thump and then get carried away with volume, only to destroy your subs.

[GTRMAN]

I hate when I go to bars and the bass is so intense that I feel it in my chest.. One time I went to a club show and it was so intense that I had to leave because I felt like I was suffocating.

[agedhorse]

 

I hate when I go to bars and the bass is so intense that I feel it in my chest.. One time I went to a club show and it was so intense that I had to leave because I felt like I was suffocating.

 

 

Ahhh, the modern sound. yuck.

[boomerweps]

The key is always the drum tuning and mic placement. Does the bass drum give you the "Kick & pound in chest feel" you desire when you are close to it? When i switched to a 20x16 from using a 22x16/18 all my life, I got what I considered a great sound. BUT it was a higher tuned sound and didn't thump as well in the subs. I futzed with tuning for a LONG time to get that back, going through several batter and resonant heads (including a bad made resonant ;>(

 

My bandmate owns and keeps our main mixer. If I can get him to check the kick channel's EQ settings I'll post them. It's a GL2400 so they should translate to the mixwiz well ;>) I do use a 3:1 compression on the kick.

 

Boomerweps

[ned911]

Only hoping to get the pounding feeling on the dance floor, we usually center cluster the subs. Here is where I've got the XTI set:

 

HP: 31.3 (BUT18) LP:81.1 (LR48)

2db boost at 68Hz, 1.5db boost at 41.7Hz

 

Tops are SRX715

HP: 91Hz (LR48)

LP: 20K (But6)

 

I'll hook the gate back up and make the eq suggestions. Appreciate the input.

[Norton666]

 

I hate when I go to bars and the bass is so intense that I feel it in my chest.. One time I went to a club show and it was so intense that I had to leave because I felt like I was suffocating.

 

 

BLASPHEMY!!! I feel cheated if it is not that way. It doesnt matter to me if its blues, classic rock, metal, punk etc. I need to be able to feel the kick drum to really enjoy myself.

[agedhorse]

Here's what I would suggest based on my experience with the speaker as well as processing in general.

 

First with LR alignment and especially with an 8th order filter, there is likely to be something unconventional going on at the crossover point. With that in mind, try this:

 

SUBS:

HPF set at 32Hz, Butterworth 24dB/oct if available otherwise 18db is ok.

LPF set at 100Hz, LR 24db/octave

no boost at 41.7Hz (not with this cabinet)

50-60Hz little bit of boost IF this gives you something you like.

 

 

TOPS:

HPF set at 100-105Hz, LR 24dB/oct

LPF set at thru (what you have should work but there should be a thru option)

Maybe a couple of dB of cut around 125-150Hz, and same around 200-250Hz but this will be much more dependant with the room, mic, drum, positioning.

 

If you have an RTA available, you will want to look at the level of the tops (w/out subs) between 125-500Hz and using this as a reference add in the subs until you get a response that's about 3dB higher than this at about 60Hz. This is a good starting point, you may want to add or subtract a little sub from this reference level to taste.

[GTRMAN]

 

BLASPHEMY!!! I feel cheated if it is not that way. It doesnt matter to me if its blues, classic rock, metal, punk etc. I need to be able to feel the kick drum to really enjoy myself.

 

 

Feeling it is fine, but when it rattles your chest and makes you feel like your lungs are going to collapse, things are ridiculous.

[agedhorse]

That kind of bottom is like overdoing anything in life. Moderation is an important part of the equation.

[ThudMaker]

BLASPHEMY!!! I feel cheated if it is not that way. It doesnt matter to me if its blues, classic rock, metal, punk etc. I need to be able to feel the kick drum to really enjoy myself.

Then why not listen to music that only has a kick? Went to a concert last weekend and the subs were pumped up so much it cheated the rest of the band. I couldn't understand any phrasing the bass player had going on, because the frequencies human ears actually hear were overpowered by the subs. Live sound is supposed to support the entire sound spectrum. Overall, the extreme sub heavy mix made the band sound disjointed.

[Axisplayer]

To paraphrase Dave Rat, no one ever went home humming the kick drum....

[dboomer]

If you have a graphic EQ on the mains' date=' try bumping 60 and 80 Hz ...QUOTE']

 

I would recommend that you don't boost the GEQ on the mains. Do it in the input channel. If you do it in the mains it boosts everything ... including a bunch of low end gack picked up in your vocal mics.

[Mogwix]

Hm, I tend to get a great kick sound out of my kick whatever system I'm going through.

 

I mixed a rock band (that was using my kit) on a yorkie elite rig (4x E12's, 4x LS1004's) and was really happy with the kick drum. Kick chain looked like this:

 

1. Audix D6 in the porthole (22x16 kick, 4" sound hole off center) with the diaphragm just inside the resonant head, pointed right at the beater. Kick has a remo PS4 head on batter, aquarian regulator on resonant, and a small pillow just barely touching each head.

 

2. (you guys will hate this part) dbx 266xl comp. Gate threshold set really high, so just a really fast WHAM comes through, and the comp had a lower threshold with the ratio all the way clockwise (limiting, per se), a medium attack and release time

 

3. EQ is hi +0dB, hi mid +6dB @ 4k, lo mid -3dB @ 250hz, low +0dB. I don't like low mids, IMO they're what muddy things up. I really like the "click" hence the +6 at 4k.

 

Kick was powerful, punchy, and clear in the mix, but wasn't overpowering and dominant.

 

Also, I hardly ever use an EQ on my mains aside from feedback suppression. Usually just use it to smooth out the high end (elites IME are fairly harsh boxes)

[witesol]

I believe the low EQ on a MixWiz is at 60 hz, The para mid sweeps down to 80 if I'm not mistaken. You might try putting the sweepable low-mid on boost and sweep the EQ frequency until you find either something you like..or find something up higher in the kick that you don't. Then subtly boost what you like, or cut a little of what you don't. Re-adjust with band playing. While the gate can do something towards cleaning things up, it doubt it will give you the sound you want. A compressor can even out a bit of the dynamics hit to hit. I always compress, rarely gate

[agedhorse]

The low EQ is shelving and pretty broad, there's plenty of influence in the 80-100Hz area. This is typical of all Baxandall type eq's. which I believe the MixWix has on the low & high sections.

[jasps]

 

3. I don't like low mids, IMO they're what muddy things up.

 

 

Low mids are integral. I've noticed a lot of people will cut low-mids from systems and I think it is generally because of mud build up from stage sound and because the top cabinets can't do those low mids very well. "Smile" GEQ is then used to make the sound "rounder" and "cleaner." If you've ever heard a system with GOOD lo-mids, you might not say the above statement. I LOVE me some lo-mids

 

Psst - low mids are the new subbass

[Black Frog]

I haven't heard too many kick drums that 250Hz was a friend of. Different kicks, different mics, I still finding myself cutting something in that general 250Hz area.

[flanc]

I haven't heard too many kick drums that 250Hz was a friend of. Different kicks, different mics, I still finding myself cutting something in that general 250Hz area.

 

It also give the bass a little sonic space.

[ned911]

Thanks this has been really helpful.

 

The only instrument on stage that creates noise are the drums. Both bass and guitar run direct without amps (POD's) and we monitor with Sennheiser IEM's (G1).

[Not Serial]

 

2. (you guys will hate this part) dbx 266xl comp. Gate threshold set really high, so just a really fast WHAM comes through, and the comp had a lower threshold with the ratio all the way clockwise (limiting, per se), a medium attack and release time

 

 

whats wrong with that? i prefer a 166/166xl but the 266xl is a worthy contender on kick. i dont compress it like you do but thats your right.

 

i had an odd kick for a 3 nighter last week. dont know what kick, just normal looking. they wanted to use a beta91, which i like. usually i have to cut somewhere odd, like 500-600 or so instead of the normally lower cut (125-350). but this drum was weird. end of story i ended up BOOSTING 45hz on the low sweep, and shelfing up a little on the LF (yeah, i'd say thats pretty f**in weird man). spiced up 5k, used a mild limiter and it rocked.

 

weirdest eq ever though.

[Phil Clark]

Thanks this has been really helpful. The only instrument on stage that creates noise are the drums. Both bass and guitar run direct without amps (POD's) and we monitor with Sennheiser IEM's (G1).

 

Uhm... I love you.

 

I wish all bands were like this.